Official Trade Speculation/Proposal Thread III

[Hip Of Rick*]

Let us not forget that the kool aid drinkers and Snow lovers remember that we have been either at or near the bottom of the salary cap payroll floor for sometime now. Let us also not forget that Wang has 0 playoff series wins with him as the owner. Let us think a new GM will magically be able to address this.

Wang is clearly the biggest problem noone ever denies it. Wang isn't going anywhere so fast. Some think Snow collecting prospects and finishing in last is good enough, or an accomplishment. 6/8 years in the bottom 5 is a tangible fact which can not be debated.

I have asked you countless times and you always ignore me so I will ask you again. Can a different GM possibly do any worse?

Its almost impossible to do worse and that is also fact. Probably close 5% chance of bringing in someone worse than Snow.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

It's not forgotten but coupling a bad owner (which isn't changing) with a piss poor GM condemns the franchise. I'd like to see what another GM can do given the very same conditions that Snow has to work under. I'm not of the opinion that there is no reason to try someone else like many here seem to be.

And who chooses the new GM?

Yes, exactly, the only point that matters.

/argument

 

[MikeT98213]

I agree. We have had so much success in the GM department with all these great owners. Might as well get Wang's son, what's the worst that can happen?

Another MMM could set us back another 10 years, try to not forget this. I'm not saying Snow is the man or anything, however, what I'm trying to say is....UNLESS WE GET A FREAKING OWNER WHO CARES ABOUT HOCKEY, THINGS WILL REMAIN THE SAME!!!!!!!!!!!

And I'm saying that I'm not convinced. At any rate, I'd rather make a change and see if the results are different rather than sit idly by and assume they won't be.

 

[MattMartin]

I agree. We have had so much success in the GM department with all these great owners. Might as well get Wang's son, what's the worst that can happen?

Another MMM could set us back another 10 years, try to not forget this. I'm not saying Snow is the man or anything, however, what I'm trying to say is....UNLESS WE GET A FREAKING OWNER WHO CARES ABOUT HOCKEY, THINGS WILL REMAIN THE SAME!!!!!!!!!!!

Wang is clearly a huge problem noone ever denies it. Some think Snow collecting prospects and finishing in last is good enough, or an accomplishment. 6/8 years in the bottom 5 is a tangible fact which can not be debated.

I have asked you countless times and you always ignore me so I will ask you again. Can a different GM possibly do any worse?

Snow is a proven failure, I would much rather go with the mystery route than proven loser.

The bolded, read above.

 

[DeanCrandall]

Can someone rewind the tape and make Vanek and MacDonald sit there, watch the same game we watched, and explain to us how one is worth 8 million and the other is worth 5 million ? OMG they shoulda taken 7 and 4 and be VERY thankful.

 

[Hip Of Rick*]

The bolded, read above.

So you think someone can do worse than last place for 6/8 years. That is pretty naive. Even with the Wang handicap its almost impossible to be worse.

Not sure why its hard for you to admit that both Wang and Snow are problems.

 

[CREW99AW]

If Hamonic gets suspended for any real time after his attack on Carter today do you think Snow will stop short of trading AMac?

No. Isles are not in the playoff race. They don't have to worry about staying in the race, till Harmonic returns from whatever suspension he will have to serve.


OT...anyone read Jagr's comment that he may not report to a new team, if he is traded? He does not have a no trade clause, but wants the new team's gm to call him before making a trade.

 

[MikeT98213]

The bolded, read above.

I've read it. I just don't subscribe to the theory that you fold your tent and keep the status quo on the assumption that a change in the front office will be worse. I guess you must be devil I know kinda guy?

 

[MattMartin]

So you think someone can do worse than last place for 6/8 years. That is pretty naive. Even with the Wang handicap its almost impossible to be worse.

Not sure why its hard for you to admit that both Wang and Snow are problems.

I do understand that Wang is horrible, not positive about Snow. I'm also not saying he is anywhere near perfect by any stretch. I can't judge Snow as harshly because, you, nor me know what he is allowed to do in terms of money. Is that fair enough?

 

[Hip Of Rick*]

I do understand that Wang is horrible, not positive about Snow. I'm also not saying he is anywhere near perfect by any stretch. I can't judge Snow as harshly because, you, nor me know what he is allowed to do in terms of money. Is that fair enough?

It's safe to assume Wang handicaps Snow and will continue to do so. Snow has failed in this situation, I would rather take my chances with someone new who perhaps can be successful under Wang.

 

[islandermaniac]

I do understand that Wang is horrible, not positive about Snow. I'm also not saying he is anywhere near perfect by any stretch. I can't judge Snow as harshly because, you, nor me know what he is allowed to do in terms of money. Is that fair enough?

that being said, there are other teams in the league, and in other professional sports leagues for that matter, that have been successful on a budget. snow has not been able to do that even with one of the best players in the world on his roster.

 

[MikeT98213]

I do understand that Wang is horrible, not positive about Snow. I'm also not saying he is anywhere near perfect by any stretch. I can't judge Snow as harshly because, you, nor me know what he is allowed to do in terms of money. Is that fair enough?

Yes but, in my view and experience, all businesses run on budgets and not every low budget business is a perennial failure. It takes strong, savvy management to succeed in a frugal environment but spending less is not always the recipe for failure that many believe. Unfortunately, Snow is just not the right man for the job. It's similar to when Isles management thought they could replace Bill Torrey with Don Maloney while operating the team on a shoestring.

When you opt to lower spending you better have top quality managers managing your business.

 

[MattMartin]

I've read it. I just don't subscribe to the theory that you fold your tent and keep the status quo on the assumption that a change in the front office will be worse. I guess you must be devil I know kinda guy?

Not really the bolded. I am however kind of scared knowing Wang's background. Can it get better? Sure. Can it get worse? Sure. We need a owner 1st, and as we all unfortunately know, that isn't happening.

 

[MikeT98213]

Not really the bolded. I am however kind of scared knowing Wang's background. Can it get better? Sure. Can it get worse? Sure. We need a owner 1st, and as we all unfortunately know, that isn't happening.

Who knows though...Wang might hire someone who could turn out to be the next Jimmy Devellano. We'll never know if we concede to the concept that we could do worse than Snow.

 

[Janson]

If you read the backstory to all of this, nowhere have i said that snow was some great, award winning GM, but i do not think he's the worst GM in the history of the sport, although we have a few other contenders on that list. This is a small market team with a shoestring budget. It just grinds my gears when people assume he's going to Milbury the trades of vanek and amac. Can we let the man pull the trades off before we burn him at the stake?

First people were complaining that vanek isnt any good
THEN they were complaining that snow wasnt going to get enough for him.

make up your mind, either he's not good in which case we WONT or he IS good and we MIGHT.

I have read the posts and I never accused you of anything and I definitely don't blame you for defending the GM if you like him or if you don't. Their has to be atleast 2 sides or how do you have a conversation? All I was saying is how is criticism unwarranted in regards to this club? That is inarguable.

 

[Isles Junkie]

the fact remains that if garth is fired, odds are the only choices for wang will be Yashin, DiPietro and Weight. Do any of them have a sports business degree?

 

[MattMartin]

that being said, there are other teams in the league, and in other professional sports leagues for that matter, that have been successful on a budget. snow has not been able to do that even with one of the best players in the world on his roster.

Yes but, in my view and experience, all businesses run on budgets and not every low budget business is a perennial failure. It takes strong, savvy management to succeed in a frugal environment but spending less is not always the recipe for failure that many believe. Unfortunately, Snow is just not the right man for the job. It's similar to when Isles management thought they could replace Bill Torrey with Don Maloney while operating the team on a shoestring.

When you opt to lower spending you better have top quality managers managing your business.

I understand that is possible, but, much harder to accomplish. current lowest payrolls in the NHL and where they sit in the standings overall.

20. New Jersey 22nd
21. Dallas 17th
22. Phoenix 21st
23. Nashville 24th
24. Edmonton 29th
25. Buffalo 30th
26. Ottawa 23rd
27. Calgary 27th
28. N.Y. Islanders 26th
29. Colorado 6th
30. Florida 28th

Only Dallas (currently the 8th seed) and Colorado are in the playoffs at the moment. Does money guarantee success? No. Does spending near the bottom pretty much guarantee failure? Going by those bottom 11. Yes.

 

[stranger34]

the fact remains that if garth is fired, odds are the only choices for wang will be Yashin, DiPietro and Weight. Do any of them have a sports business degree?

Yashin would probably be an improvement.

 

[MikeT98213]

I understand that is possible, but, much harder to accomplish. current lowest payrolls in the NHL and where they sit in the standings overall.

20. New Jersey 22nd
21. Dallas 17th
22. Phoenix 21st
23. Nashville 24th
24. Edmonton 29th
25. Buffalo 30th
26. Ottawa 23rd
27. Calgary 27th
28. N.Y. Islanders 26th
29. Colorado 6th
30. Florida 28th

Only Dallas (currently the 8th seed) and Colorado are in the playoffs at the moment. Does money guarantee success? No. Does spending near the bottom pretty much guarantee failure? Going by those bottom 11. Yes.

There are plenty of examples in professional sports where lavish spending teams fail to succeed while lower budget but smartly run teams are solid contenders.

The Oakland A's in baseball, under the savvy management of Billy Beane, is a prime example. There are others that demonstrate that a team can compete at a high level even under the burdens of a frugal owner.

 

[Levi Walking Bear]

I do understand that Wang is horrible, not positive about Snow. I'm also not saying he is anywhere near perfect by any stretch. I can't judge Snow as harshly because, you, nor me know what he is allowed to do in terms of money. Is that fair enough?

Matt, we know Wang is the worst, I was on the fence with Snow but with what has happened since last last summer there is no doubt now. Just because he played in the NHL does not mean he is qualified to be GM. Look at most of the ones who become GM's, what they have to do to work their way up the ranks.

 

[TeamKidd]

Wang is clearly the biggest problem noone ever denies it. Wang isn't going anywhere so fast. Some think Snow collecting prospects and finishing in last is good enough, or an accomplishment. 6/8 years in the bottom 5 is a tangible fact which can not be debated.

I have asked you countless times and you always ignore me so I will ask you again. Can a different GM possibly do any worse?

Its almost impossible to do worse and that is also fact. Probably close 5% chance of bringing in someone worse than Snow.

Here is the issue. None of us are the ownership. None of us are the GM. None of us are in a position to change any of it. So why the **** do you have to clog up every damned thread with this droning nonsense over and over again about how bad our GM is and how we're never going to amount to anything and how this team is destined for failure as long as Wang is the GM. WE CANT CHANGE IT and some of us choose to believe that there is HOPE that this team CAN get better. In case you havent noticed, this is SUPPOSED to be a damned thread about TRADES not about how ****** you think the gm and owner are. WE GET IT. YOU THINK THEY SUCK. you do know there is a dedicated thread for that, right?

 

[TeamKidd]

I have read the posts and I never accused you of anything and I definitely don't blame you for defending the GM if you like him or if you don't. Their has to be atleast 2 sides or how do you have a conversation? All I was saying is how is criticism unwarranted in regards to this club? That is inarguable.

believe me i have criticized snow for not getting a better goalie and defenders in here...i just cant take the constant *****ing (not you necessarily) in a thread supposedly about the trade deadline.

 

[Hip Of Rick*]

believe me i have criticized snow for not getting a better goalie and defenders in here...i just cant take the constant *****ing (not you necessarily) in a thread supposedly about the trade deadline.

I was only responding to someone else.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

Luongo is in play apparently.

Worth it? The term on his contract is marysoscary.

He is 34, gets paid until age 42....
$6 mill a year until he is 38...
Drops to $3 mill then $1 mill years after....
edit - Our very own Bluechipper reminded me that there is the salary retention lever to pull on. Garf, get er done...

 

[boredmale]

I understand that is possible, but, much harder to accomplish. current lowest payrolls in the NHL and where they sit in the standings overall.

20. New Jersey 22nd
21. Dallas 17th
22. Phoenix 21st
23. Nashville 24th
24. Edmonton 29th
25. Buffalo 30th
26. Ottawa 23rd
27. Calgary 27th
28. N.Y. Islanders 26th
29. Colorado 6th
30. Florida 28th

Only Dallas (currently the 8th seed) and Colorado are in the playoffs at the moment. Does money guarantee success? No. Does spending near the bottom pretty much guarantee failure? Going by those bottom 11. Yes.

I said this a few other places but the Islanders generally finish better then their payroll every year, not many teams can claim that. lol

All that being said I question us being 28th, I am guessing when you factor actual salary we are lower. lol

I do think though the Islander on ice performance basically mimics our current payroll situation. basically we have a team that every now and then something might go right when stuff goes as planned(2007, 2013) but more often then not the team will easily get derailed when it has to adjust to plan B or C(ie injuries)