Official Tank Thread

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yeah, that's debatable at best...He hasn't exactly been amazing either.

It just sucked for us that in that draft, there wasn't a sure fire number 1 like some of the other drafts.

For Slaf I can definitely be patient though as he can be a dominant player when he's on. The whole team is a mess at the moment.

Yep. It is. Even when we get the defense going our offense falls off... Really disappointing year. It's going to be intersesting to see how patient they are with Dach. My guess is that when Laine returns, Dach goes back to center. Maybe at that point we see Caufield return with Suzuki... I don't know. But if there's one single thing that I think has messed up our year it's how bad Dach has been. Not his fault, we probably should've expected some rust.... but I thought he'd be way better. His dropoff is really killing us.

 

[Tabarouette]

A pretty good scout apparently.



A rebuild does not require or imply firing every person in the organization... Again with the gross exaggerations.

If you don't support a rebuild, thats fine. But these silly takes make no sense at all.

Gorton & Hughes were brought in to start a rebuild. It has been 3 years. The indicators are overwhelmingly positive from the purpose and perspective of a full rebuild.

The "accountability" you speak of, if anything, will probably show up in terms of a generous bonus.... Much to your presumed consternation lol

I extremely support a rebuild, but i'm also don't have absolute blind faith in this management team like you do. They're building something, there's some good pieces that deserve credit, I love Suzuki, Caufield, Hutson, Guhle, to an extent Heineman right now

I love prospects that look bad *occasionally*, that show sign of immaturity, but mostly show that they have potential on a regular basis. That's part of a rebuild. The difference is I want this rebuild to be successful, unlike the usual suspects like you who have habs stockholm syndrome. Some of our top end picks look bad, and will most likely BE bad, that's just how things go and there's no point in pretending otherwise

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

So there's no one accountable here? Let's check who scouted Reinbacher

Bobrov, a new hire, that's good!

Rockström, with the team since 2010
Laine. with the team since 1999
Lehman, with the team since god knows when, just promoted too!

Timmins was rightfully fired but he didn't take his gang with him, you know

this idea that new management = 100% fresh start is erroneous

There is no way to know. Because we don't know if MB paid any attention to his scouts or just picked whoever he felt like or whoever had the biggest biceps.

 

[Tabarouette]

You have?

When?

Please tell me the last time we had a collection of players like this.

I just mean this sentiment, you know there's been plenty of these posts every couple of years for as long as we can remember don't even try

hindsight is always 20/20 in retrospect

 

[Schooner Guy]

How does sending away two 1st round picks and a high 2nd round pick for Dach and Newhook fit in with your definition of "a proper rebuild" and why doesn't their massive underperformance impact your impression of the performance of this rebuild?

How old were Dach and Newhook when we acquired them? Dach was a recent #3 overall and Newhook was a recent mid-1st.

Dach looked pretty darn good during his first season and two games as a Hab but then suffered a serious knee injury. Many were questioning Caufield's ability to score again throughout last season.

Rebuilds are long, trying processes with more valleys than peaks that can take a lot of years. Although Habs management may have been off on their evaluation of whether we could play meaningful games in March of 2025, they haven't made any substantial commitments or made any attempts at shortcuts that will handcuff their long term future.

 

[ReHabs]

How old were Dach and Newhook when we acquired them? Dach was a recent #3 overall and Newhook was a recent mid-1st.

Their draft position loses relevance with each passing year. At the time of their acquisition they were 3 and 4 years after their draft and were divested from by their original teams rather unceremoniously.

In short: Hughes didn’t “buy-low”, he paid the market price for them and it’s not a given that we got our money’s worth. It happens. I think those who wanted a long and thorough rebuild should be more critical of the outcome of these moves.

Dach looked pretty darn good during his first season and two games as a Hab but then suffered a serious knee injury. Many were questioning Caufield's ability to score again throughout last season.

I think you’re a bit generous in your valuation of Dach’s initial performance (his career high is under 40pts). Regardless, this season is more important than two years ago and he’s laying a big egg after yet another massive injury.

His injury history is a large factor in why he was cut loose in the first place.

Rebuilds are long, trying processes with more valleys than peaks that can take a lot of years. Although Habs management may have been off on their evaluation of whether we could play meaningful games in March of 2025, they haven't made any substantial commitments or made any attempts at shortcuts that will handcuff their long term future.

Dach and Newhook aren’t shortcuts? So what are they?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I just mean this sentiment, you know there's been plenty of these posts every couple of years for as long as we can remember don't even try

At no time has this team EVER had this kind of talent in the past 30 years. We had Carey Price and PK Subban... two HOF caliber players that should've yielded some cups but we mismanaged things so badly that we were going nowhere on that pretty quickly.

Between 1981 and 2011 we had ONE top five pick. And that was a one time lottery where we fluked out on getting Carey Price. We've had three top five picks in the past three years.

hindsight is always 20/20 in retrospect

Wasting Carey Price was tragic. But we all knew that the regime was incompetent. Therrien, Desharnais... we weren't going to win that way. It was self sabotage and we don't need to go into that again. I've spent too much time ranting on how stupid they were. That group should've won some cups. But they didn't have near the depth of player/prospects we have now. We are overflowing with young talent.

That doesn't mean they're all going to pan out or reach their potential. We KNOW that players don't always work out. We also know that injuries can derail things - look no further than Kirby Dach - but there's so much talent coming up. From forward to D to goaltending, we've got amazing talent that I haven't seen since the mid 80s team that had Roy, Chelios and Richer coming up.

Now... we can't know how good these guys will be. Price is likely a first round HOFer. Roy and Chelios were first round HOFers. We may not have that in this group. But we have a lot of players with tons of talent. Just as we know some players won't pan out, others will. Hutson and Slaf already look really promising.

Look, you're always going to have the usual suspects who come in here pant shitting after a brutal loss. Who gives a shit about that? Long term we're in great shape. If we shit the bed this year... oh well, just means another top pick this year. It doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Runner77]

Exactly. This team has not been through a proper rebuild since before most of us have been fans. We always said we were ready for it, but now that it is happening people are freaking out. This will take time, but needs to be done. The important thing is to let the process take care of itself. It will.

It is my impression that we are ready for a rebuild, “we” as in a solid majority of fans based on my daily review of social media. You’ll always get fans (plus legacy media which has a vested interest) who will find fault with one and that’s OK too, it makes for a more interesting discourse.

For me, other ways were tried and failed. We’re not a destination market, there are no Panarins and Foxes itching to sign here. It all hinges on how long more of a leash ownership is willing to allow for the rebuild to continue its course and the competency of HuGo. And so far, I’m liking most of what this management group has done.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Dach and Newhook aren’t shortcuts? So what are they?

Acquiring players sub 23 is a rebuilding move. It doesn't matter if you're using picks to acquire them. Great trade in both cases. Injuries have gotten in the way but those were good moves.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Some of us wanted a rebuild 10 years ago while everybody else had the pom poms out for a garbage roster making the loffs of the back of the best goalie in the league.


If anything the patience and tanking crowd have always been right lol the pom poms thinking the team was ever doing anything under Gainey or Bergevin without tanking had it wrong for two decades on here

Playoff teams don't rebuild especially when they have the best goalie in the league, if anything we should have sacrificed the future harder

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

How anybody could think we would win with Caufield at 1W and Suzuki at 1C blows my mind.

The CP31/Danault/Weber cup run did some irreparable damage to the fanbase , we thought we were close and we thought we could pull something like that off again with a mid team I guess

I think Suzuki and Demidov could form a top line but they would need a better W than Caufield

But I also think Demidov and Caufield could form a top line if they had a better C than Suzuki

Caufield-Suzuki-Demidov doesn't quite make it as a top line for me

 

[Miller Time]

I extremely support a rebuild, but i'm also don't have absolute blind faith in this management team like you do

Again with the hyperbole and exaggeration based on poor assumptions.

If that is the case, and you do support a rebuild, Your posts don't reflect an understanding of what a rebuild entails.

. They're building something, there's some good pieces that deserve credit, I love Suzuki, Caufield, Hutson, Guhle, to an extent Heineman right now

And, considering you put Hutson & Heineman on this list, it appears that 20 games is enough to shift your opinion...

So if Newhook or Slaf go on a 20 game tear, like they did last 1/3 of last season, you'll "love" them?

this kind of small sample size reactivity is inconsistent with a rebuild focus.

Development and progression aren't linear.

Understanding a rebuild would suggest assessments with more context and breadth than these types of short term outcome assessments appear based on.

I love prospects that look bad *occasionally*, that show sign of immaturity, but mostly show that they have potential on a regular basis. That's part of a rebuild. The difference is I want this rebuild to be successful, unlike the usual suspects like you who have habs stockholm syndrome. Some of our top end picks look bad, and will most likely BE bad, that's just how things go and there's no point in pretending otherwise

More hyperbole, more weak and ungrounded assumptions.

Wanting immediate "success" is the opposite of wanting a rebuild. Confusion the two understandably leads to disappointment, frustration, and the whiny posts reflecting that.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Playoff teams don't rebuild especially when they have the best goalie in the league, if anything we should have sacrificed the future harder

Absolutely. We should've been trading picks for vets. And if we weren't going to use Chuck as our number one, we should've traded him. The whole thing was a gongshow and they insisted on putting in a midget 4th liner as our first line pivot.

Worst possible GM at the worst possible time.

Say what you want about Hughes but he at least has a plan and knows what he's doing. Maybe they make some bad moves or injuries get in the way or whatever... but they wouldn't ever insist on putting in a Desharnais on our first line and getting dimestore support players for Carey Price. What a wasted opportunity.

Love the stockpiling we're doing now. Can't wait to see what Fowler can do.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I'd say the "forever patience" crowd has been wrong for the past 30 years.

Problem is, that's a different crowd, one that was content with the bubble team status of the team. They weren't willing to rebuild. but I guess it's always easy to make assinine groupings with no bearing on reality, simply because you have an axe to grind.

So which is it in your case? Patient for a bubble team or patient for a rebuild?

Why am I even asking. You're impatient no matter what.

 

[HabzSauce]

Caufield on a good team would score boatloads of goals. Here we can’t seem to sustain offensive pressure. On another club he’s going to kill it.

Ya true maybe he gets more involved with a better team.

But habs are also soft as butter. Caufield would fetch us a solid return in a trade. Bring in some dogs

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Ya true maybe he gets more involved with a better team.

But habs are also soft as butter. Caufield would fetch us a solid return in a trade. Bring in some dogs

I hate that idea. We finally have a guy who could be a premier scorer and we deal him off?

Imagine what this place would be like if he's scoring 50 somewhere else...

 

[HabzSauce]

Suzuki and Caufield were the offense. Danault were the defense from forwards.. Without them the trio takes the team nowhere. Suzuki and Caufield with the right supporting cast can win Cups.

For sure Suzuki and CC were good but not the pillars.

4th line played their role really well too. Everyone was chipping in but the trio was danault/Weber/price in my eyes.

But yes right supporting cast and Suzuki/CC can absolutely win. We almost did it

 

[Schooner Guy]

Their draft position loses relevance with each passing year. At the time of their acquisition they were 3 and 4 years after their draft and were divested from by their original teams rather unceremoniously.

In short: Hughes didn’t “buy-low”, he paid the market price for them and it’s not a given that we got our money’s worth. It happens. I think those who wanted a long and thorough rebuild should be more critical of the outcome of these moves.

I think you’re a bit generous in your valuation of Dach’s initial performance (his career high is under 40pts). Regardless, this season is more important than two years ago and he’s laying a big egg after yet another massive injury.

His injury history is a large factor in why he was cut loose in the first place.

Dach and Newhook aren’t shortcuts? So what are they?

No. They were very barely in their 20s when we traded for them and medium term investments. Not short term. We bought low on them because of their situations with their previous teams.

Have you ever looked at the odds of late 1sts and early 2nds having meaningful NHL careers? I believe you once called those picks magic beans. Dach and Newhook were higher percentage bets.

Dach missed the entire season last year due to a serious knee injury. It would be premature to close the book on him especially after what we saw in Caufield's goal scoring his first season back after shoulder surgery.

I think you're picking apart a nothingburger on those trades.

 

[HabzSauce]

I hate that idea. We finally have a guy who could be a premier scorer and we deal him off?

Imagine what this place would be like if he's scoring 50 somewhere else...

He's pretty one dimensional. Outside of goals he doesn't do much and playoffs things will tighten up. I'm ok with giving up a 50 goal scorer if it means we get player(s) back that can make a bigger impact overall.

Also depends what our team looks like but if we remain small and soft he's absolutely gotta go in my books. No other forwards worth giving up would fetch as much as he would. We already have Hutson he's the better of the smurfs

 

[Miller Time]

Some of us wanted a rebuild 10 years ago while everybody else had the pom poms out for a garbage roster making the loffs of the back of the best goalie in the league.


If anything the patience and tanking crowd have always been right lol the pom poms thinking the team was ever doing anything under Gainey or Bergevin without tanking had it wrong for two decades on here

Indeed...

And some of the same posters complaining now about too much patience, were adamant Bergevin deserved more time given the early regular season success he had.

An over emphasis on short term results and an underestimation or lack of understanding of performance development & progression.... Leads to a lot of terrible takes, unecessary frustration and flip flops every time a guy has a hot (or cold) stretch

 

[hardcorehabs]

I think we can all agree adding Demidov is the greatest piece of this entire Hugo regime. And they got him by blind luck. Adding Dach instead of scorched earth nearly cost us Demidov, but luckily (I guess?) Dach missing last season allowed us a Top 5 pick (BARELY).

 

[Miller Time]

I think we can all agree adding Demidov is the greatest piece of this entire Hugo regime. And they got him by blind luck.

What nonsense is this?

Habs traded Monahan, one of our best fwds, and made no additions to offset Dach or any of the other injuries. We didn't "luck into" a high lottery pick, we intentionally chose not to chase short term roster upgrades and actively reduced the roster quality for futures.

You know, managed the roster with a focus on rebuilding...

That's how we ended up with Demidov.

Adding Dach instead of scorched earth nearly cost us Demidov, but luckily (I guess?) Dach missing last season allowed us a Top 5 pick (BARELY).

We traded Romanov to get the assets for Dach. Romanov was a better and older NHL player.

What do you think "scorched earth" looks like? No team can play with draft picks, you need bodies to take on roster spots.

 

[hardcorehabs]

What nonsense is this?

Habs traded Monahan, one of our best fwds, and made no additions to offset Dach or any of the other injuries. We didn't "luck into" a high lottery pick, we intentionally chose not to chase short term roster upgrades and actively reduced the roster quality for futures.

You know, managed the roster with a focus on rebuilding...

That's how we ended up with Demidov.




We traded Romanov to get the assets for Dach. Romanov was a better and older NHL player.

What do you think "scorched earth" looks like? No team can play with draft picks, you need bodies to take on roster spots.

Without Dach injury, we may have been a bubble-ish team and not even traded Monahan.

And we could have still traded Romanov and kept that pick instead of Dach.

 

[Miller Time]

Without Dach injury, we may have been a bubble-ish team and not even traded Monahan.

And we could have still traded Romanov and kept that pick instead of Dach.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Without Dach injury, we may have been a bubble-ish team and not even traded Monahan.

And we could have still traded Romanov and kept that pick instead of Dach.

Monahan and Dach would have changed completely nothing lol.