OT: Official Sports Media Thread 2 (TV, Radio, Print) MOD WARNING in OP

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sarge88

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Because one show is creating their own numbers and perpetuating them as if they were valid. They're not. For point of reference, I'd say the same thing about T&R if they were doing that as well. Not even sure they are in this case, just going off their track record of doing it from the past.

Gotta ask.......if you owned or were a shareholder in Entercom, would you care that some of the money you're making is generated from outside of the 617 area code?

The Hub can take all the credit they want for their success in greater Boston, but it doesn't change the fact that they don't have the reach or regional impact that WEEI has.

To me, this is no different than either station claiming that they have "the best sports talk in Boston".

It's relatively subjective, just like how they each choose to look at the numbers.

I mean, to me when The Hub makes a claim of any sort regarding their programming being entertaining or of high quality, I take it as fraudulent, because by and large I think their on air talent is lousy.
 
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LSCII

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Gotta ask.......if you owned or were a shareholder in Entercom, would you care that some of the money you're making is generated from outside of the 617 area code?

The Hub can take all the credit they want for their success in greater Boston, but it doesn't change the fact that they don't have the reach or regional impact that WEEI has.

To me, this is no different than either station claiming that they have "the best sports talk in Boston".

It's relatively subjective, just like how they each choose to look at the numbers.

I mean, to me when The Hub makes a claim of any sort regarding their programming being entertaining or of high quality, I take it as fraudulent, because by and large I think their on air talent is lousy.

And that's fine. You like what you like. Not arguing that in this case. What I have an issue with is really about credibility. If they were on top in the Arbitron/Nielsen ratings they'd be shouting it from the rooftops. Since they're not, they want to expand the conversation to include areas that are already being accounted for in their local geography, which comes off as sad and hypocritical.

And to answer your question, if I were a shareholder and my station was being consistently beaten by another all sports format, I'd be pissed that rather than trying to get better and fix the issue, the station was whining about markets and how they're tabulated.
 

sarge88

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And that's fine. You like what you like. Not arguing that in this case. What I have an issue with is really about credibility. If they were on top in the Arbitron/Nielsen ratings they'd be shouting it from the rooftops. Since they're not, they want to expand the conversation to include areas that are already being accounted for in their local geography, which comes off as sad and hypocritical.

And to answer your question, if I were a shareholder and my station was being consistently beaten by another all sports format, I'd be pissed that rather than trying to get better and fix the issue, the station was whining about markets and how they're tabulated.

I get it, but they're not lying about the numbers. They're just doing what every company in the world does; choosing the numbers that make them look better.

It's no different than if Moxie soda were to say it was the best selling independent brand of soda among people born in the 1940's.

They wouldn't be accurate in saying they're the best selling brand of soda....but among that specific group....they are.
 

Fenway

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Gotta ask.......if you owned or were a shareholder in Entercom, would you care that some of the money you're making is generated from outside of the 617 area code?

I have known the owner of WPEI-FM in Portland for decades going back to when he was a DJ at WRKO and I was a summer relief board op. He made millions owning radio stations from the 70's to 90's and sold out in 1997 and then be bought a small cluster of stations near Portland to give him something to do. He is happy with the WEEI arrangement.

Entercom owns the FM signals in Lawrence-Boston, the monster signal of 103.7 in Westerly RI-Providence and 105.5 in Easthampton MA (Springfield) which is very weak. Entercom also owns 1440 AM in Worcester.

Entercom also has partnerships with small stations in Swanzey, NH (Keene-Brattleboro) and Dennis, MA (Cape Cod). They carry the WEEI network for one reason - Red Sox baseball.

CBS has no interest in expanding beyond Boston and Providence where 98.5 can be heard.

SportsHub is on in Hartford if you have a HD Radio ( 100.5 HD-3 )
 

jgatie

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I get it, but they're not lying about the numbers. They're just doing what every company in the world does; choosing the numbers that make them look better.

It's no different than if Moxie soda were to say it was the best selling independent brand of soda among people born in the 1940's.

They wouldn't be accurate in saying they're the best selling brand of soda....but among that specific group....they are.

As Howard Stern used to say, demographics are what crappy DJs use to justify their paycheck.
 

BMC

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I get it, but they're not lying about the numbers. They're just doing what every company in the world does; choosing the numbers that make them look better.

It's no different than if Moxie soda were to say it was the best selling independent brand of soda among people born in the 1940's.

They wouldn't be accurate in saying they're the best selling brand of soda....but among that specific group....they are.

1. Lies, damn lies and statistics :nod::laugh:

2. Moxie- my parents love the stuff and yes they were youngsters in the 40s. They even got my niece to try it and she likes it too.
 

sarge88

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I have known the owner of WPEI-FM in Portland for decades going back to when he was a DJ at WRKO and I was a summer relief board op. He made millions owning radio stations from the 70's to 90's and sold out in 1997 and then be bought a small cluster of stations near Portland to give him something to do. He is happy with the WEEI arrangement.

Entercom owns the FM signals in Lawrence-Boston, the monster signal of 103.7 in Westerly RI-Providence and 105.5 in Easthampton MA (Springfield) which is very weak. Entercom also owns 1440 AM in Worcester.

Entercom also has partnerships with small stations in Swanzey, NH (Keene-Brattleboro) and Dennis, MA (Cape Cod). They carry the WEEI network for one reason - Red Sox baseball.

CBS has no interest in expanding beyond Boston and Providence where 98.5 can be heard.

SportsHub is on in Hartford if you have a HD Radio ( 100.5 HD-3 )

I drove pretty far into Maine this summer and got a good WEEI signal there as well....not sure what the call letters/frequency was though.
 

FribbleLine

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I get it, but they're not lying about the numbers. They're just doing what every company in the world does; choosing the numbers that make them look better.

It's no different than if Moxie soda were to say it was the best selling independent brand of soda among people born in the 1940's.

They wouldn't be accurate in saying they're the best selling brand of soda....but among that specific group....they are.

What they are doing is pathetic...but not surprising
 

Fenway

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I drove pretty far into Maine this summer and got a good WEEI signal there as well....not sure what the call letters/frequency was though.

Here are the network stations.

http://www.weei.com/weei/shows-schedules/network-stations

My favorite Maine radio story concerns 610 AM in Bangor. Some 30 years ago an irate listener called because the station had dropped Red Sox games and nobody else in the market picked them up. The listener bought the station :laugh: Stephen King. ( still owns it )
 

LSCII

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I get it, but they're not lying about the numbers. They're just doing what every company in the world does; choosing the numbers that make them look better.

It's no different than if Moxie soda were to say it was the best selling independent brand of soda among people born in the 1940's.

They wouldn't be accurate in saying they're the best selling brand of soda....but among that specific group....they are.

I get that you're a fan of the station, and I'm not trying to convince you to not be. I just think it's not about using the numbers that suit them, but rather creating and manufacturing them out of thin air. Adding in markets that fall outside the Boston book of ratings is intellectually dishonest at best, and gets even worse looking when they start adding in the television numbers. That's creating your own narrative. And that's what I have an issue with. Not the programming. Not the hosts. Just the way they ignore the market based statistics and then create their own numbers out of nowhere just to fit their story.

It would be one thing if they were a private company, but since Entercom is a public company, it borders on fraud, IMO. Right in the same category with the Enrons of the world, if you ask me.
 

Donnie Shulzhoffer

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I get that you're a fan of the station, and I'm not trying to convince you to not be. I just think it's not about using the numbers that suit them, but rather creating and manufacturing them out of thin air. Adding in markets that fall outside the Boston book of ratings is intellectually dishonest at best, and gets even worse looking when they start adding in the television numbers. That's creating your own narrative. And that's what I have an issue with. Not the programming. Not the hosts. Just the way they ignore the market based statistics and then create their own numbers out of nowhere just to fit their story.

It would be one thing if they were a private company, but since Entercom is a public company, it borders on fraud, IMO. Right in the same category with the Enrons of the world, if you ask me.

But in this day and age it does matter. CSNNE is all over New England. So even if Dale and Holley would beat Felger and Mazz in Boston ratings, they would still have more listeners/viewers because of the simulcast.
 

LSCII

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But in this day and age it does matter. CSNNE is all over New England. So even if Dale and Holley would beat Felger and Mazz in Boston ratings, they would still have more listeners/viewers because of the simulcast.

Sure, but WEEI's ratings books in each market can be touted individually, the way they're actually tallied. You don't add them to misrepresent the numbers and make yourself feel better. If anything, they could say they have X amount of listeners across New England. Or that they're New England's most listened to sports talk station, etc. Adding the entire regions numbers to the Boston ratings book and then comparing them to their competition's Boston radio only numbers is misleading and disingenuous. It's on par with fraud, IMO.

Again, this has nothing to do with the hosts or what shows I prefer and everything with how they're playing games and using creative math to misrepresent themselves in a more positive light. It's silly because they could easily say plenty of other things that are true without having to manufacture stats to back up a narrative that is only being put out by themselves. It's like a kid who tells a lie, gets caught, and rather than admit they were lying, lies again to cover up the initial lie.

So I guess I'll ask you a final question: At what point is it okay for me or anyone else as a consumer of sport radio to call ******** on them? It doesn't take a genius to figure out the game they're playing and the misrepresentation of those numbers, does it? So when can I call it out? Do I have to be fan of their station in order to do so? If that's the case, I can tell you that for a long, long time, I was a fan of WEEI. They lost me with their blatant and constant disrespect of the sport I love, and when they had a chance to win me back, I was subjected to hearing Gerry Callahan belittle the victims of sexual assault and make cavalier jokes about it and the other clown saying outrageous and misogynistic things just to get attention. Nothing against the people who enjoy that show, but it's simply not for me.
 
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Fenway

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But in this day and age it does matter. CSNNE is all over New England. So even if Dale and Holley would beat Felger and Mazz in Boston ratings, they would still have more listeners/viewers because of the simulcast.

In the end ratings don't matter either. The real winner is the station that bills the most in ads and I have been told WEEI still has a slight edge as CBS Radio is tied into certain ads they have to run that are contracted nationally including the infamous 1-877 - K***-***-****

Every CBS local manager knows that commercial drives people away in droves but national insists.
 

LSCII

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In the end ratings don't matter either. The real winner is the station that bills the most in ads and I have been told WEEI still has a slight edge as CBS Radio is tied into certain ads they have to run that are contracted nationally including the infamous 1-877 - K***-***-****

Every CBS local manager knows that commercial drives people away in droves but national insists.

You know what I really dislike about CBS radio? The god awful "hot takes" sports minute crap from their national hosts like Doug Gottlieb. How many times do I have to listen to that asshat blather on about some stupid college basketball team? Doesn't CBS have the ability to realize that nobody in Boston or New England truly gives a **** about college basketball? Why can't they choose the sports minutes that are relevant to the market they're playing them in? It goes up my ass a mile because it's so easy to do. :laugh:
 

Fenway

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You know what I really dislike about CBS radio? The god awful "hot takes" sports minute crap from their national hosts like Doug Gottlieb. How many times do I have to listen to that asshat blather on about some stupid college basketball team? Doesn't CBS have the ability to realize that nobody in Boston or New England truly gives a **** about college basketball? Why can't they choose the sports minutes that are relevant to the market they're playing them in? It goes up my ass a mile because it's so easy to do. :laugh:

They promise advertisers the show will clear in Boston. :shakehead
 

Fenway

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What's ESPN'a end game with the World Cup?

Are they testing the waters to gauge interest in the NHL product?

Didn't NBC just extend the rights?

My understanding is NBC was lukewarm about this tournament to begin with and they were aware the NHLPA wanted the games on ESPN as that was an important item for the players. Players go on the road and not every hotel carries NBCSN.

Ratings on ESPN have been poor but that is mostly because of Team USA not showing up to play.
 

Donnie Shulzhoffer

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Sure, but WEEI's ratings books in each market can be touted individually, the way they're actually tallied. You don't add them to misrepresent the numbers and make yourself feel better. If anything, they could say they have X amount of listeners across New England. Or that they're New England's most listened to sports talk station, etc. Adding the entire regions numbers to the Boston ratings book and then comparing them to their competition's Boston radio only numbers is misleading and disingenuous. It's on par with fraud, IMO.

Again, this has nothing to do with the hosts or what shows I prefer and everything with how they're playing games and using creative math to misrepresent themselves in a more positive light. It's silly because they could easily say plenty of other things that are true without having to manufacture stats to back up a narrative that is only being put out by themselves. It's like a kid who tells a lie, gets caught, and rather than admit they were lying, lies again to cover up the initial lie.

So I guess I'll ask you a final question: At what point is it okay for me or anyone else as a consumer of sport radio to call ******** on them? It doesn't take a genius to figure out the game they're playing and the misrepresentation of those numbers, does it? So when can I call it out? Do I have to be fan of their station in order to do so? If that's the case, I can tell you that for a long, long time, I was a fan of WEEI. They lost me with their blatant and constant disrespect of the sport I love, and when they had a chance to win me back, I was subjected to hearing Gerry Callahan belittle the victims of sexual assault and make cavalier jokes about it and the other clown saying outrageous and misogynistic things just to get attention. Nothing against the people who enjoy that show, but it's simply not for me.

This is real easy. No show on any station with half a brain will under sell themselves and talk negativity about their ratings.
 

BigGoalBrad

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In the end ratings don't matter either. The real winner is the station that bills the most in ads and I have been told WEEI still has a slight edge as CBS Radio is tied into certain ads they have to run that are contracted nationally including the infamous 1-877 - K***-***-****

Every CBS local manager knows that commercial drives people away in droves but national insists.

(I am not trolling.)

Some people really like that song/commercial. About 10ish years at my old job (in human services) it was very popular with the clients and everyone sang along and was excited to hear it when it came on the radio during commericals.

To each their own!:)
 

Fenway

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Look - the WEEI NETWORK does have more listeners. There affiliate on Cape Cod does very well in the summer and 98.5's signal fades at the canal.

Cape Cod ratings
http://ratings.radio-online.com/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb530

Portland, Maine ratings

http://ratings.radio-online.com/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb197

Providence, RI

http://ratings.radio-online.com/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb077

I won't listen to EEI in the morning because of Callahan and I won't budge on that.




Sure, but WEEI's ratings books in each market can be touted individually, the way they're actually tallied. You don't add them to misrepresent the numbers and make yourself feel better. If anything, they could say they have X amount of listeners across New England. Or that they're New England's most listened to sports talk station, etc. Adding the entire regions numbers to the Boston ratings book and then comparing them to their competition's Boston radio only numbers is misleading and disingenuous. It's on par with fraud, IMO.

Again, this has nothing to do with the hosts or what shows I prefer and everything with how they're playing games and using creative math to misrepresent themselves in a more positive light. It's silly because they could easily say plenty of other things that are true without having to manufacture stats to back up a narrative that is only being put out by themselves. It's like a kid who tells a lie, gets caught, and rather than admit they were lying, lies again to cover up the initial lie.

So I guess I'll ask you a final question: At what point is it okay for me or anyone else as a consumer of sport radio to call ******** on them? It doesn't take a genius to figure out the game they're playing and the misrepresentation of those numbers, does it? So when can I call it out? Do I have to be fan of their station in order to do so? If that's the case, I can tell you that for a long, long time, I was a fan of WEEI. They lost me with their blatant and constant disrespect of the sport I love, and when they had a chance to win me back, I was subjected to hearing Gerry Callahan belittle the victims of sexual assault and make cavalier jokes about it and the other clown saying outrageous and misogynistic things just to get attention. Nothing against the people who enjoy that show, but it's simply not for me.
 

Fenway

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(I am not trolling.)

Some people really like that song/commercial. About 10ish years at my old job (in human services) it was very popular with the clients and everyone sang along and was excited to hear it when it came on the radio during commericals.

To each their own!:)

If I heard it only once or twice a day I could stomach it but CBS Radio just overdoes it on both 1030 AM and 98.5.
 
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