Official Francesco Aquilini Thread

[Reverend Mayhem]

Oh I agree it was mostly Keenan.

Wasnt it Keenan who wanted Bertuzzi from NYI to Van?

Still the value mined from a negative as hell asset. Its the equivalent of moving OEL for a 1st pairing RD today.

Completely. Bertuzzi's stock had pretty fell to so little, in this market at least. He was line-hopping from January-February on with...mixed results. There was no way we should have been so lucky as to get Roberto's bowed legs, let alone the rest of him. But, Luongo wanted to be paid as he was once touted by many to be those who thought who might be the best goalie in the NHL pound-for-pound. Keenan was NOT budging and the rest is history. I have zero clue how we may have proceeded from there had this not played out exactly like this. We very well might have had to rebuild. I have no idea how much he was being paid at the time, I think Naslund was at $6M and Morrison at like $3.2M, So I'd say likely around $4.5-5.3M. Which in today's cap terms is roughly $9.4M AAV for the next year (06-07). Imagine having to eat the rest of that. Having to eat that for the remainder of the year likely means no playoffs/early exit and a higher pick. Then from there, we actually properly rebuild under Aquilini guidance or skip right to 2014.

 

[racerjoe]

Not Sanderson that was on two previous occasions. The Noronen trade always seemed insane to me. Trade a 2nd only for him to play to games and go back to Europe as a UFA.

I think it is an example of how Nonis couldn't handle long term planing and that was his huge problem. When we traded Noronen it was to be the guy next season and when we traded for Lui, there was no thought or plan for Noronen.

I'm not trying to downplay it, but I think that had more to do with Keenan, his ego, and his love for Todd Bertuzzi. Nobody should have paid that price for Bert. Ultimately Nonis' reign has me nonplussed in a pleasant way. Standing pat was the right thing to do but I don't know that he had the capabilities to take the team to the next level.

I don't know, I don't like not giving credit because of the other GM. Do other teams go that trade doesn't count cause Benning? Are we now asking our team to trade with teams with GMs we know are bad like Fletch in Philly?

 

[Hit the post]

Just looking at that roster, I kind of miss those years where you HAD to have a designated goon. Wade Brookbank was a hell of a heavyweight too.

Scored a couple goals riding shotgun for the Sedins as well.

Seemed to be that good at his one skill (fighting) that the Sens & Canucks played 'tag' whenever one of them put him on waivers

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I think it is an example of how Nonis couldn't handle long term planing and that was his huge problem. When we traded Noronen it was to be the guy next season and when we traded for Lui, there was no thought or plan for Noronen.

What?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Not Sanderson that was on two previous occasions. The Noronen trade always seemed insane to me. Trade a 2nd only for him to play to games and go back to Europe as a UFA.

Man totally forgot that he had ever played for the Canucks.

that’s because he practically never played. he was a good young goalie stuck between marty biron and ryan miller and crawford didn’t even try to see what we had.

in his first game, he got lit up on the backside of a back-to-back with our d in shambles and our boys getting shutout. then he sits for two full weeks watching alex auld before seeing garbage time duty in games where auld got shelled. a full month after his first start with the canucks, he finally starts another game (his last in the nhl). a 4-3 OT win against the avs on the last game of the season, before he leaves for the KHL completely disgusted.

meanwhile auld goes 6-7-2 with a 3.22 GAA and .886 SV% to fall three pts short of the eight seed.

just a complete organizational gong show. the coach not even trying to get his new goalie in a rhythm, the GM trading away an entire draft to bring in players that were unplayable (eric weinrich was -13).

Vancouver Canucks acquire​	Date​	St. Louis Blues acquire​
Eric Weinrich	March 9, 2006​	Tomas Mojzis 2006 3rd round pick (#77-Vladimir Zharkov)

New Jersey Devils acquire​	Date​	Vancouver Canucks acquire​
2006 4th round pick (#107-T.J. Miller)	March 9, 2006​	Sean Brown

Anaheim Ducks acquire​	Date​	Vancouver Canucks acquire​
Brett Skinner 2006 2nd round pick (#38-Bryce Swan)	March 9, 2006​	Juha Alen Keith Carney

Buffalo Sabres acquire​	Date​	Vancouver Canucks acquire​
2006 2nd round pick (#46-Jhonas Enroth)	March 9, 2006​	Mika Noronen

Vancouver Canucks acquire​	Date​	Atlanta Thrashers acquire​
2007 conditional 4th round pick (3rd round if McCarthy re-signed with Thrashers) (#115-Niklas Lucenius)	March 9, 2006​	Steve McCarthy

if you consider that mccarthy had just been acquired that offseason for a third, and we’d also picked up the omelette midyear for a fifth, nonis blew a 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th to bring back carney, weinrich, sean brown, omelette, and a goalie that the coach refused to play. and gave up a bad dman who could play a little (mccarthy) for two who couldn’t (weinrich and brown).

it’s a nice story for nonis to tell, but even if the richards trade was the last straw, he massively bungled multiple trade deadlines and hemorrhaged entire drafts worth of assets (two second rounders and a fourth to rent smolinski and sopel in 2007).

 

[Vector]

You’re also forgetting the Sopel trade in the same off-season before McCarthy. Traded for a 2nd that was eventually used in the Carney deal.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

You’re also forgetting the Sopel trade in the same off-season before McCarthy. Traded for a 2nd that was eventually used in the Carney deal.

tbf nonis did a decent job of stockpiling picks on a couple of occasions. the original sopel trade, and esp the omg lol crawford dan cloutier trade.

but in almost benning-like fashion he immediately turned those wins into losses (see also: garrison > second > vey, bieksa > second > sweetener for sutter)

 

[racerjoe]

What?

When we first traded for Noronen, he was originally supposed to become our goalie of the future. That we then just forgot about with Roberto. I mean don't get me wrong you make that Luongo trade every day, every second. However to then have no plan for Noronen and just let him go forever was a bit baffling.

 

[RobertKron]

I think it is an example of how Nonis couldn't handle long term planing and that was his huge problem. When we traded Noronen it was to be the guy next season and when we traded for Lui, there was no thought or plan for Noronen.

What? No. Noronen was acquired to back up Alex Auld, because the team had played like the entire season with one goalie after Cloutier got hurt like three separate times before the end of November and ended up having season-ending knee surgery in December.

They didn't acquire a guy at the deadline with 4GP and a sub-.850sv% to be their starting goalie the next year. That's a completely absurd notion.

When they got Luongo, Noronen signed in Russia because he didn't want to back up a guy who played 1000 games a year - which is fair enough, but I'd imagine that decision was also partially him calling it a career in North America at 27 after a pretty disastrous season in a career that never really got going.

Also, when Roberto Luongo in the prime of his career falls in your lap, it kind supersedes whatever plan you already had in place for Mika Noronen, and rightfully so.

When we first traded for Noronen, he was originally supposed to become our goalie of the future. That we then just forgot about with Roberto. I mean don't get me wrong you make that Luongo trade every day, every second. However to then have no plan for Noronen and just let him go forever was a bit baffling.

When they traded for Noronen, Auld was the goalie of the future. He was a 24 year old rookie who had been marinating for a few years, and was carrying the team on his back all season after Cloutier got hurt. Cloutier still had a season left on his new contract. Noronen was the same age as Luongo, and was a stopgap they acquired at the deadline because they only had one NHL goalie.

 

[RobertKron]

Part of the issue with Weinrich and Carney (who was actually okayish) was that they were completely ill-suited to play on a Marc Crawford team. They both came from fairly structured defensive systems to join Crawford's "it's-just-a-bunch-of-arrows-pointing-to-the-other-team's-end" defensive system down the stretch, and they were both aging players who probably no longer had the athleticism to improvise.

I sometimes wonder how Willie Mitchell's arc in Vancouver goes if Crawford is still behind the bench when he arrives.

 

[racerjoe]

What? No. Noronen was acquired to back up Alex Auld, because the team had played like the entire season with one goalie after Cloutier got hurt like three separate times before the end of November and ended up having season-ending knee surgery in December.

They didn't acquire a guy at the deadline with 4GP and a sub-.850sv% to be their starting goalie the next year. That's a completely absurd notion.

When they got Luongo, Noronen signed in Russia because he didn't want to back up a guy who played 1000 games a year - which is fair enough, but I'd imagine that decision was also partially him calling it a career in North America at 27 after a pretty disastrous season in a career that never really got going.

Also, when Roberto Luongo in the prime of his career falls in your lap, it kind supersedes whatever plan you already had in place for Mika Noronen, and rightfully so.



When they traded for Noronen, Auld was the goalie of the future. He was a 24 year old rookie who had been marinating for a few years, and was carrying the team on his back all season after Cloutier got hurt. Cloutier still had a season left on his new contract. Noronen was the same age as Luongo, and was a stopgap they acquired at the deadline because they only had one NHL goalie.

I disagree.

Maybe I overstated, but he was for sure looked at as a futures trade, and spelled the end of Clouts time here in Vancouver.

I did a quick google search, and it was very quick, none of the links talk about the trade just that it happened, or they are from years down the road, except this one which I also don't think is a great link, and don't fully trust so do take it with a grain of salt. But it does talk about him being a big piece next year.

Sports Forecaster

sportsforecaster.com

 

[Vector]

Bill Watters on Sportsnet was raving about the Canucks acquired Noronen. Thought he was going to be a great goalie and said it had the best potential of any trade at the deadline. I remember this clearly because I thought it was a bizarre take.

Whatever the plan was, trading a 2nd for a back-up goalie that was going to be UFA*, was crazy. Especially given Crawford’s long and abysmal treatment of Canucks back-up goalies.

*I think he was UFA

 

[RobertKron]

I disagree.

Maybe I overstated, but he was for sure looked at as a futures trade, and spelled the end of Clouts time here in Vancouver.

I did a quick google search, and it was very quick, none of the links talk about the trade just that it happened, or they are from years down the road, except this one which I also don't think is a great link, and don't fully trust so do take it with a grain of salt. But it does talk about him being a big piece next year.

Sports Forecaster

sportsforecaster.com

I mean, anyone acquired would be a futures trade for a team that went into the season with only two goalies in the system who could play any minutes in the NHL - which is the real thing we should be upset about. Noronen was a guy who had been a highly-touted future player but never managed to break into the league due to circumstance, was having an absolute nightmare season, and clearly needed rebuilding.

A 26 year old guy the team acquired to be the future starter, and who they thought was going to render their current longstanding starter obsolete would start more than one game from time of acquisition at the deadline to the point where the team was eliminated from playoff contention - especially when you consider that Auld started all but four games from the time Cloutier got hurt in November to the point they were out of the playoffs. Auld was clearly their guy.

 

[RobertKron]

Bill Watters on Sportsnet was raving about the Canucks acquired Noronen. Thought he was going to be a great goalie and said it had the best potential of any trade at the deadline. I remember this clearly because I thought it was a bizarre take.

Whatever the plan was, trading a 2nd for a back-up goalie that was going to be UFA*, was crazy. Especially given Crawford’s long and abysmal treatment of Canucks back-up goalies.

*I think he was UFA

They had one goalie. They probably would have had to trade a 2nd just to get a shooter tutor to tie up in the net. Auld had started all but 3 games from Cloutier going down in November to the deadline. The crazy part was going in to the season with that situation when everyone in the world knew Cloutier was bound to get hurt at some point.

 

[Vector]

They had one goalie. They probably would have had to trade a 2nd just to get a shooter tutor to tie up in the net. Auld had started all but 3 games from Cloutier going down in November to the deadline. The crazy part was going in to the season with that situation when everyone in the world knew Cloutier was bound to get hurt at some point.

It doesn’t cost a 2nd to get a back-up goalie. It’s never cost that much.

 

[Hit the post]

Part of the issue with Weinrich and Carney (who was actually okayish) was that they were completely ill-suited to play on a Marc Crawford team. They both came from fairly structured defensive systems to join Crawford's "it's-just-a-bunch-of-arrows-pointing-to-the-other-team's-end" defensive system down the stretch, and they were both aging players who probably no longer had the athleticism to improvise.

I sometimes wonder how Willie Mitchell's arc in Vancouver goes if Crawford is still behind the bench when he arrives.

Oddly enough Willie had a bit of offensive ability prior to being drafted. In the short time he honed his defensive game in New Jersey ,& under Jacques Lemaire with the Wild.

 

[RobertKron]

It doesn’t cost a 2nd to get a back-up goalie. It’s never cost that much.

It does when you literally do not have anyone else that can play a game, your starter has been shut down for the season, and your only goalie is a rookie who was in the midst of being forced into a run of starting 41 of 44 games due to the team legitimately not having anyone else at all in the system, and you're clearly gunning for the playoffs. Teams could basically name their price.

 

[racerjoe]

While Yes Auld needed a rest, he didn't play more game that year than the normal Canucks starters did.
The previous seasons the starter normally Clouts played between 60-70 games. That Season Auld played in that range.

the next season the Canucks Backup played 9 games. Behind Luongo. This really was before people realized goalies shouldn't be playing that much.

 

[RobertKron]

While Yes Auld needed a rest, he didn't play more game that year than the normal Canucks starters did.
The previous seasons the starter normally Clouts played between 60-70 games. That Season Auld played in that range.

the next season the Canucks Backup played 9 games. Behind Luongo. This really was before people realized goalies shouldn't be playing that much.

Auld wasn't the starter. He was a rookie with 18 total NHL games played who only missed 5 starts out of like 61 games or something like that after Cloutier got hurt. He played both nights of back-to-backs nine times that season. He was 5th in the NHL in games played, and he wasn't even the starter until Cloutier got injured.

 

[racerjoe]

Auld wasn't the starter. He was a rookie with 18 total NHL games played who only missed 5 starts out of like 61 games or something like that after Cloutier got hurt. He played both nights of back-to-backs nine times that season. He was 5th in the NHL in games played, and he wasn't even the starter until Cloutier got injured.

We knew this... it was part of the conversation...

 

[RobertKron]

We knew this... it was part of the conversation...

But - again - he wasn't playing a normal amount for Canucks starters because he was their starter; it was because the team did not have a backup goalie. He ended up 5th in the league in GP, having not become the go-to guy until mid-November. Had he played at that rate from the beginning of the season, he would have made like 76 starts or so and led the league in games played.

Auld wasn't the starter - he was the team's only goaltender. Other than him, it was Maxime Ouellet - who was in the midst of completely washing out of pro hockey, Rob McVickar - an ECHL goalie who played a whopping 3 minutes, and a 38 year old Wade Flaherty who they didn't even bring up from the Moose. This is why they paid such a premium for a goalie at the deadline, rather than because they necessarily believed Noronen to be their future #1.

 

[racerjoe]

But - again - he wasn't playing a normal amount for Canucks starters because he was their starter; it was because the team did not have a backup goalie. He ended up 5th in the league in GP, having not become the go-to guy until mid-November. Had he played at that rate from the beginning of the season, he would have made like 76 starts or so and led the league in games played.

Auld wasn't the starter - he was the team's only goaltender. Other than him, it was Maxime Ouellet - who was in the midst of completely washing out of pro hockey, Rob McVickar - an ECHL goalie who played a whopping 3 minutes, and a 38 year old Wade Flaherty who they didn't even bring up from the Moose. This is why they paid such a premium for a goalie at the deadline, rather than because they necessarily believed Noronen to be their future #1.

Yes it was because our starter was hurt, but through the year he played the normal number of games for a canucks starter. I agree... that wasn't in dispute. So why is it now becoming a point?

It happened to Eddie Lack both when we Traded Luongo, and when Miller was hurt too and we rode him until we were actually out of the playoffs and until Miller came back.

After we got Norenen he basically didn't play. He was acquired to help in the future, and sit on the bench as a just in case.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

I don't know, I don't like not giving credit because of the other GM. Do other teams go that trade doesn't count cause Benning? Are we now asking our team to trade with teams with GMs we know are bad like Fletch in Philly?

Which is why I cautioned doing that. But I don't exactly think Keenan was putting feelers out for Luongo offers, I think he targeted Bertuzzi and Bertuzzi alone. That's my feel on the situation.

 

[EpochLink]

After we got Norenen he basically didn't play. He was acquired to help in the future, and sit on the bench as a just in case.

That one was in Crawford, he rode Auld til the end. I think we put in Norenen once and he played okay, but lost. Then Crawford said f*** it, play Auld.

He was banking on Cloutier to return near the end but Cloutier was gone for the rest of the year. He was soon dealt to the Kings once we got Luongo.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Having an unprotected lottery pick up for auction with deadline pressure is about the only time Mr Aquilini really feels alive...