Player Discussion Official Former Leafs Thread

[francis246]

Toronto has higher income tax, they would have had to offer him 16M+ to be comparable.

Marner felt disrespected they weren’t matching Vegas’ take home pay.

This is a load of shit. It was never about the money. He already made up his mind. Marner told us that verbatim. He didn’t care about the amount of money. It was other things, if I had to guess he probably never felt protected by the Leafs (which is a bit tone def) and Mitch wanted to be the guy in Toronto & that just wasn’t possible.

I highly doubt the money had anything to do with it at all. It was an emotional / ego decision because the Leafs dream didn’t go the way he thought it would.

 

[Divine]

This is a load of shit. It was never about the money. He already made up his mind. Marner told us that verbatim. He didn’t care about the amount of money. It was other things, if I had to guess he probably never felt protected by the Leafs (which is a bit tone def) and Mitch wanted to be the guy in Toronto that just wasn’t possible.

I highly doubt the money had anything to do with it at all

If money had nothing to do with it, why did he need the 8 years at 12M in a no income tax state? You think Vegas was lining up to pay a 36 year old Marner 12M and trade Nic Roy for it?

 

[Community]

Correct that he chose not to continue his career as a Leaf but that doesn’t make the Team less complicit in the whole affair.

Not a chance brother. He simply isn't that guy.


As for Marner choosing not to continue on as a Leaf, that's fair. But MLSE should have found a way to keep him long-term way before instead of milking him for regular-season revenue (tickets, jersey sales) for the last year or two and then just letting him walk. It's on them as well. They didn't provide solutions for the struggles he faced here.

He's a hometown Toronto boy, let's not kid around here. Something was seriously wrong for him to not want to stay and win in his own home city.

As per my first response, I never said management didn't make any mistakes. Treliving, in particular, was an awful GM. All I said, was that management did not push him out and were trying to re-sign him as the OP was stating.

As for Matthews "not being that guy", that's what everybody (including non-Leaf fans) were saying about Marner 1 year ago today. Dude was just as big of a choker (or bigger) than anybody else on the Leafs.

The move was great for Marner, he's having a ton of success. He chose to leave the Leafs and it ended up being a great decision for him. Doesn't change the fact that he failed to ever come through for the Leafs in crunch time, declined the largest offer in Leafs history, and walked away from the Leafs.

 

[francis246]

More blame where? HFBoards? The Media?

I would say everywhere, I don’t think Matthews faced anywhere near the level of scrutiny Marner did. Especially in 2023.

 

[francis246]

If money had nothing to do with it, why did he need the 8 years at 12M in a no income tax state? You think Vegas was lining up to pay a 36 year old Marner 12M and trade Nic Roy for it?

he pushed for an 8 year deal because it was the last year 8 year deals were available…

But he was going to Vegas regardless. I believe Vegas could have offered him 10.93 and he would have signed. He made up his mind after 4 nations and that’s also where his wife wanted to go. So it was decided

 

[Divine]

he pushed for an 8 year deal because it was the last year 8 year deals were available…

But he was going to Vegas regardless. I believe Vegas could have offered him 10.93 and he would have signed. He made up his mind after 4 nations and that’s also where his wife wanted to go. So it was decided

So then money did matter.

If Vegas offered him 12 x 7? Does he sign somewhere else?

 

[Community]

This isn't true, he already knew Vegas' offer.

Did you forget about the tampering charges the Leafs were considering filling last season?

Youre just helping my point here. If he already knew Vegas' offer, then he was looking to leave the Leafs already.

Either way, management didnt push him out. He chose to leave because of various issues which could include him being unable to take the pressure, Leafs media/fans getting to him, locker room rift, or something else. Doesn't change the fact that management tried to keep him which was what I was disputing.

 

[Divine]

Youre just helping my point here. If he already knew Vegas' offer, then he was looking to leave the Leafs already.

Either way, management didnt push him out. He chose to leave because of various issues which could include him being unable to take the pressure, Leafs media/fans getting to him, locker room rift, or something else. Doesn't change the fact that management tried to keep him which was what I was disputing.

He couldn't have 'left the Leafs already' given he signed before free agency started. It wasn't possible for him to leave the Leafs any earlier than he did.

 

[tmlms13]

I was ready to be so happy if carolina capped off the comeback.

f*** Vegas and all the people in that organization

 

[thewave]

If money had nothing to do with it, why did he need the 8 years at 12M in a no income tax state? You think Vegas was lining up to pay a 36 year old Marner 12M and trade Nic Roy for it?

They were a miserable group that needs split up after the MTL series. Leafs love to experiment and learn on the job managers. Just an obsession to be new and edgy and woke or whatever they think makes a statement. They aren't a real hockey club. They are a message board, a facade, a thin veneer of a sports franchise and an embarrassment to the 1960s Leafs and befores namesake.

I wish they would sell to a real Leafs fan billionaire that wants nothing more than to win. Instead we are stuck with Rogers a business that needs crtc protection and sudo corporate welfare all too often.

Pelley is a clown in a suit selling you blue sky

 

[francis246]

So then money did matter.

If Vegas offered him 12 x 7? Does he sign somewhere else?

He would have signed that deal. Vegas could have offered him 12x1 and he would have signed there. He already made up his mind Vegas was his destination. The money was an added bonus but Marner could have gotten way more on the open market. But Vegas gave what they could.

 

[Divine]

He would have signed that deal. Vegas could have offered him 12x1 and he would have signed there. He already made up his mind Vegas was his destination. The money was an added bonus but Marner could have gotten way more on the open market. But Vegas gave what they could.

I don't know if he can take home way more. 12M is the highest paid winger in the league and the highest paid salary in any no income tax state.

Florida never had to pay a guy over 10M.

 

[francis246]

I don't know if he can take home way more. 12M is the highest paid winger in the league and the highest paid salary in any no income tax state.

Florida never had to pay a guy over 10M.

If Rantanen and Marner hit free agency both would have been in the 14 million range.

Kaprizov is getting 17 million next season

 

[hfman]

As per my first response, I never said management didn't make any mistakes. Treliving, in particular, was an awful GM. All I said, was that management did not push him out and were trying to re-sign him as the OP was stating.

As for Matthews "not being that guy", that's what everybody (including non-Leaf fans) were saying about Marner 1 year ago today. Dude was just as big of a choker (or bigger) than anybody else on the Leafs.

The move was great for Marner, he's having a ton of success. He chose to leave the Leafs and it ended up being a great decision for him. Doesn't change the fact that he failed to ever come through for the Leafs in crunch time, declined the largest offer in Leafs history, and walked away from the Leafs.

It's indicative of problems in that Leaf dressing room. Remember, O'Reilly refused to stay here and even made it public that something was off there. Mitch clearly wasn't choking, because if he was a choker then he wouldn't be the playoff points leader, scoring freaking hat tricks and winning conn smythes on another team just a season later. The guy is a winner who was stuck in a loser dressing room. A dressing room full of too many passengers, remember?

Lol this whole thing is a sh- show and we're in for a real treat here as the weeks go by. The fans and media are gonna absolutely implode here once he wins the conn and the cup


It's why so many fans are sick to their stomachs to think that this Leafs team is going to go back into the next season yet again with 3 of their 4 original "core 4" guys still there.... I mean what the hell... it's just crazy. God help us all... DO SOMETHING MLSE, GET RID OF THIS CORE 4 AND END IT

 

[Community]

He couldn't have 'left the Leafs already' given he signed before free agency started. It wasn't possible for him to leave the Leafs any earlier than he did.

I said "Looking to leave". Cmon man, not even reading what I said correctly and either unknowingly or purposefully misquoting me.

The original poster said the Leafs should've moved Matthews instead of Marner. They were doing what they could to keep Matthews and he chose not to stay.

If we traded Matthews 1-2 years ago, Marner still wouldn't be here. His issue wasn't Matthews (one of his closest friends). So there was no choice of one or the other.

 

[Divine]

If Rantanen and Marner hit free agency both would have been in the 14 million range.

Kaprizov is getting 17 million next season

Kaprizov is an anomaly. Jack Eichel signed for 13.5M after Kaprizov signed, in large part due to the fact he wasn't going to take less than Marner.

Before Marner signed, the rumours of Eichel's extension were 11M.

 

[hfman]

I was ready to be so happy if carolina capped off the comeback.

f*** Vegas and all the people in that organization

like all winning teams they'll fade out eventually

then we'll see what their fan base support is really like

 

[Community]

It's indicative of problems in that Leaf dressing room. Remember, O'Reilly refused to stay here and even made it public that something was off there. Mitch clearly wasn't choking, because if he was a choker then he wouldn't be the playoff points leader, scoring freaking hat tricks and winning conn smythes on another team just a season later. The guy is a winner who was stuck in a loser dressing room. A dressing room full of too many passengers, remember?

Lol this whole thing is a sh- show and we're in for a real treat here as the weeks go by. The fans and media are gonna absolutely implode here once he wins the conn and the cup


It's why so many fans are sick to their stomachs to think that this Leafs team is going to go back into the next season yet again with 3 of their 4 original "core 4" guys still there.... I mean what the hell... it's just crazy. God help us all... DO SOMETHING MLSE, GET RID OF THIS CORE 4 AND END IT

There are PLENTY of players that were playoff chokers until they werent.

Thats like saying if the Leafs won next year, that they were never actual chokers. If the Leafs make the playoffs next year and Matthews scores 3ppg on the way to a Stanley cup, I would still say he was a choker the past 10 years. Then he figured it out this year for one reason or another.

 

[647Hockey]

 

[thewave]

like all winning teams they'll fade out eventually

then we'll see what their fan base support is really like

Hockey fans are kids that formerly played hockey. If they want to grow the sport they need local kids getting a chances to skate and play to relate.

Basketball and Baseball are huge because we all played it. We lived the fantasy in our youth, driving in a run, making a big basket. Football and Soccer are the same.

Hockey is a rich kid exclusive sport down south.

 

[mix1home]

What I find hilarious is that we are not even in playoffs, but this guy still finds the way to put us down anyway as in all previous years when they failed every time in different fashion but arguably worse and worse, embarrassment after embarrassment and this one is biggest of them all. The guy should be embarrassed by the way he left and the fact that he never showed even 50% of effort he is showing now.

 

[647Hockey]

It's indicative of problems in that Leaf dressing room. Remember, O'Reilly refused to stay here and even made it public that something was off there. Mitch clearly wasn't choking, because if he was a choker then he wouldn't be the playoff points leader, scoring freaking hat tricks and winning conn smythes on another team just a season later. The guy is a winner who was stuck in a loser dressing room. A dressing room full of too many passengers, remember?

Lol this whole thing is a sh- show and we're in for a real treat here as the weeks go by. The fans and media are gonna absolutely implode here once he wins the conn and the cup


It's why so many fans are sick to their stomachs to think that this Leafs team is going to go back into the next season yet again with 3 of their 4 original "core 4" guys still there.... I mean what the hell... it's just crazy. God help us all... DO SOMETHING MLSE, GET RID OF THIS CORE 4 AND END IT

Marner is a pass first player.

So once the Leafs core players stop scoring, so does him racking up assists. On Leafs AM, WN and JT were the goal scorers where Marner stuck to the perimeter passing.

In a sense he's no different on Vegas where he's not used as power forward or anything physical like that, but on Vegas it's clear of two things:

1. Whomever he plays with is scoring on his passes (especially PP scorers and Howden)

2. He's more aggressive trying to score

Marner has always had a good shot (like his blast tonight), but on Leafs he barely used it. On Vegas it seems he's allowed to let loose to score goals too where he's had some incredible razzle dazzle plays this playoffs. On Leafs he was probably told to be passer first so the other guys wire in the goals while he stays back being like Oates or Janney.

 

[BigGulpsEh]

Toronto has higher income tax, they would have had to offer him 16M+ to be comparable.

Marner felt disrespected they weren’t matching Vegas’ take home pay.

Marner was out no matter what leafs offered

 

[TheRumble]

There are PLENTY of players that were playoff chokers until they werent.

Thats like saying if the Leafs won next year, that they were never actual chokers. If the Leafs make the playoffs next year and Matthews scores 3ppg on the way to a Stanley cup, I would still say he was a choker the past 10 years. Then he figured it out this year for one reason or another.

Most fans would likely not remember this but Matthew Tkachuck was a terrible playoff player when he was in Calgary. He finished his time in Calgary with twice as many penalty minutes than he had playoff points. And his brother had a great series against us last year only to suck this year and now he's a playoff bum.

You only need one good run to erase memories.

Nobody thinks of Washington as second round chokers anymore despite the fact that they've only made it past the second round once - the Cup run in 2018.

 

[BigGulpsEh]

Something was very wrong in the room. Matthews has looked out of it for a few years and Marner was acting miserable leading up to the departure. There were issues with the core and management didn't read the room correctly.

Habs series loss was when a major change should have happened. That was a pivotal moment to me there was some serious issues with that core