Official 2024-25 Utah HC Season Discussion.

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
30,855
9,645
I said it last summer when assets were spent on Sergashev and I'll say it again, the team has a real Owner and a fanbase to excite so imo there is no way they stand pat and wait years for assets to develop. I expect more draft picks and possible prospects to be spent to get some real help right now. I think it's the logical move.
Who said anything about waiting years? BA has shown to be patient in the past and I think that will continue. I guess it will depend who is available and at what cost. I think BA would be a dumb fool to make a Hall type trade at this time.

Yeah. They can only fill so much of the roster with home-grown talent. They'll have to bring in help to strengthen the roster via trade or FA anyways at some point as the final stage of the rebuild. So long as they're not wasting assets on a rental or a short term fix I'm all for it.

I just won't be surprised if this TDL ends up being uneventful for us. Especially with all those players coming off of IR. I'm hoping for another interesting off-season so either way.

Opportunities to trade for young, in their prime defenseman like Sergachev don't happen often. If something like that comes up I'm sure BA will take a look whether it's pre TDL or during the off-season though. So anything is possible.
That's how I see it.
 

Jamieh

Registered User
Apr 25, 2012
11,461
6,531
Who said anything about waiting years? BA has shown to be patient in the past and I think that will continue. I guess it will depend who is available and at what cost. I think BA would be a dumb fool to make a Hall type trade at this time.


That's how I see it.
And who exactly suggested a Hall type trade?
 

AZviaNJ

“Sure as shit want to F*** Coyote fans.”
Mar 31, 2011
6,748
4,467
AZ
If we miss the playoffs by 2 points, we would have roughly 94 points, that is a 16 point improvement, which is success based on last year. Its still year 5 for BA, missing the playoffs 5 years in a row couldn't have been the goal in BAs master plan. 94 is close to meeting expectations, still not in the playoffs, its not exceeding the 5th year expectation for any GM. The team has never over achieved under Bear/BA, in fact they have been under the Vegas odds in points per year mostly.

At some point, they will both be held accountable, and which year do they run out of, "we are still young, Chayka left a mess, we are broke" ? At some point they will turn from reasons to excuses. If we make the playoffs, Smith likely sticks with both of them. If we don't, Smith needs to take a hard look at both of them. I have said many times that i think the team is misconstructed, built wingers first, and BA took too long to start the rebuild, I hope I am wrong and we make the playoffs this year, and go further in them next year.
Both before and after the move they prioritized draft picks and invested in development staff. The rebuild is not yet complete. Supplementing with vets like Sergy is great…but shouldn’t be the priority.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Canis Latrans

cobra427

Registered User
May 6, 2012
9,455
3,462
Do you guys think your team is gonna buy?
Nothing meaningful, maybe a fill in vet for a second or a third. BA takes forever to make any moves involving real assets, first/OEL/Chych, etc.... BA also doesn't seem to have any pressure on him to make the playoffs this year, so no need to give up future assets for meaningful help this year. BAs goal is playing in meaningful games, not making the playoffs or having meaningful improvements through trades.

Both before and after the move they prioritized draft picks and invested in development staff. The rebuild is not yet complete. Supplementing with vets like Sergy is great…but shouldn’t be the priority.
I agree its not completed, I can tell by our record, the question is who will the GM and coach be once it is completed.
 

AZviaNJ

“Sure as shit want to F*** Coyote fans.”
Mar 31, 2011
6,748
4,467
AZ
Nothing meaningful, maybe a fill in vet for a second or a third. BA takes forever to make any moves involving real assets, first/OEL/Chych, etc.... BA also doesn't seem to have any pressure on him to make the playoffs this year, so no need to give up future assets for meaningful help this year. BAs goal is playing in meaningful games, not making the playoffs or having meaningful improvements through trades.


I agree its not completed, I can tell by our record, the question is who will the GM and coach be once it is completed.
Probably neither.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cobra427

cobra427

Registered User
May 6, 2012
9,455
3,462
So frustrating that he took so long to trade OEL and all we got back as the main piece was Dylan Guenther. Should've fired him right away after that. Priceless time wasted we'll never get back. Such a bad GM!! :laugh:
BA could have gotten more for OEL had he traded him a year earlier, his value didn't go up. I am glad Gunts looks so good, we have plenty of good wingers, the easiest position to play and get good players. 1D not so much. maybe we get the same pick a year earlier, same with Chych, the earlier you get the picks, the sooner the rebuild takes hold.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mangosteen

Arizonatah Coyetis

Formerly Kai Yo T
Nov 27, 2006
4,144
4,843
Scottsdale, AZ
BA could have gotten more for OEL had he traded him a year earlier, his value didn't go up.

maybe we get the same pick a year earlier

Don't forget that OEL had a NTC and would only accept a trade to either VAN or BOS. Best I can tell:

BOS highest 2020 draft pick was 1st round, 27th OA (ended up trading it to ANA.)

VAN highest 2020 pick was 1st round, 20th OA (ended up trading it to TBL.)

The two teams that OEL would allow a trade to didn't have as much to offer in 2020. Waiting as long as BA did looks like it was out of necessity to me. Unless he was going to make a trade for quantity over quality just for the sake of time. And I'd take Guenther over a bunch of lesser parts any day.

Edit: And if I recall correctly it didn't seem like BOS was all that interested in trading for OEL. So that means that BA really only had Jim Benning to deal with. The good news is Benning was an idiot because I don't think any other GM in the NHL makes that trade. Especially without any competition from other teams to get the player. :laugh:
 
Last edited:

cobra427

Registered User
May 6, 2012
9,455
3,462
Don't forget that OEL had a NTC and would only accept a trade to either VAN or BOS. Best I can tell:

BOS highest 2020 draft pick was 1st round, 27th OA (ended up trading it to ANA.)

VAN highest 2020 pick was 1st round, 20th OA (ended up trading it to TBL.)

The two teams that OEL would allow a trade to didn't have as much to offer in 2020. Waiting as long as BA did looks like it was out of necessity to me. Unless he was going to make a trade for quantity over quality just for the sake of time. And I'd take Guenther over a bunch of lesser parts any day.

Edit: And if I recall correctly it didn't seem like BOS was all that interested in trading for OEL. So that means that BA really only had Jim Benning to deal with. The good news is Benning was an idiot because I don't think any other GM in the NHL makes that trade. Especially without any competition from other teams to get the player. :laugh:
That might all be true or maybe not, we don't know the inter workings of any trade really. It also took BA 18 months to trade Chych. Getting any young players a year earlier speeds up development time. I agree that rebuilds take years, but they don't all work, look at Buffalo and Detroit.

I am not against BA or Bear, I am for both of them, I hope this is the year we make the playoffs. I also think its fair to evaluate BA after 5 years at the helm, and Bear after 4 years, this summer. That is a fair amount of time in this business, they are both long tenured now as GMs and coaches go, neither is on 8 years deals for a reason, contracts are shorter becuse owners want to see "meaningful" progress. Seems like a long time to not make the playoffs if we miss this year. How much longer do they get the bogie because of Chayka/Coyotes mess?

I hope Veg keeps playing this well, he could carry us into the playoffs and getting back Durzi/marino should help. I am pulling for the team to pull it off!
 

rt

Clean Hits on Substack
@cobra427 -
OEL would only accept a trade by Oct 8th (free agency start date due COVID season). And only to two teams; BOS or VAN. BA was hired Sept 17th. He has three weeks as a brand new GM to figure out a trade where he had zero leverage. There were only two bidders and Steve Sullivan had begun the negotiations. So he had to undo that also. There was no time to do a deal. And OEL wouldn’t do a deal during the season. So he had to wait until the next offseason.

BA did an incredible job getting a top ten pick for this player. Such a good job that the GM was eventually fired and the OEL was bought out.

Chychrun was injured right before the 2022 deadline and couldn’t be traded as a result. That’s why he was held out for so long before the 2023 deadline. So he couldn’t get injured again. There was no trading him sooner. He kept getting injured.

Getting a 12th overall pick and two 2nds was an incredible haul for this mess of a player - again a the GM was fired and the player later moved out for peanuts.

Armstrong’s performance in the OEL and Chychrun trades was masterful.
 

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
30,855
9,645
BA could have gotten more for OEL had he traded him a year earlier, his value didn't go up. I am glad Gunts looks so good, we have plenty of good wingers, the easiest position to play and get good players. 1D not so much. maybe we get the same pick a year earlier, same with Chych, the earlier you get the picks, the sooner the rebuild takes hold.
Speculation on your part. The OEL trade turned out great for Utah, and I don't care if Gunner is a winger or not because a winger of his caliber don't grow on trees, and not many teams has a winger like Gunner. As far as Chych goes, that remains to be seen, but other GM's knew Chych wanted a trade and that may have hurt getting a trade done earlier, or the return.
 

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
30,855
9,645
@cobra427 -
OEL would only accept a trade by Oct 8th (free agency start date due COVID season). And only to two teams; BOS or VAN. BA was hired Sept 17th. He has three weeks as a brand new GM to figure out a trade where he had zero leverage. There were only two bidders and Steve Sullivan had begun the negotiations. So he had to undo that also. There was no time to do a deal. And OEL wouldn’t do a deal during the season. So he had to wait until the next offseason.

BA did an incredible job getting a top ten pick for this player. Such a good job that the GM was eventually fired and the OEL was bought out.

Chychrun was injured right before the 2022 deadline and couldn’t be traded as a result. That’s why he was held out for so long before the 2023 deadline. So he couldn’t get injured again. There was no trading him sooner. He kept getting injured.

Getting a 12th overall pick and two 2nds was an incredible haul for this mess of a player - again a the GM was fired and the player later moved out for peanuts.

Armstrong’s performance in the OEL and Chychrun trades was masterful.
How can you call Chych a mess of a player? A player getting traded for peanuts, as you say, has nothing to do with Chych's play, rather a GM getting fleeced in a trade. Chych played good for Ottawa and is playing very well for the Capitals. The Chych trade, at this time, is far from being called masterful. As far as the OEL trade goes, I think it has ended up well for all players involved, but the Canucks as an organization took a hit.
 

Arizonatah Coyetis

Formerly Kai Yo T
Nov 27, 2006
4,144
4,843
Scottsdale, AZ
How can you call Chych a mess of a player?

Over the 8 years spanning his time with Arizona, Chychrun missed almost 1/3 of the games due to injury over that span. We could never rely on him being on the ice when we needed him.

but the Canucks as an organization took a hit.

A big hit. They're paying OEL over $19M to play somewhere else after only playing 133 games for them.
 
Last edited:

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad