Official 2023 World Junior Championship Thread

[CanadianFlyer88]

if..IF somehow we got Bedard..i am totally for unretiring Clarke's number lol

He'll wear 98 as a pro. Canada isn't allowing unique numbers.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Over it now.

Haven’t had emotion like that in a game forever.

Was standing/pacing for the last 15min, and dropped to knees when that goal went in.

Would be lovely to get Bedard. That’s a player that even if you are a shit franchise, he gives you a reason to watch.

 

[Canfly]

Do you ever stop spouting pure bullshit?

He would rather have the Flyers draft a 6'4" player that can't skate or shoot but knows how to hit and play the way Torts wants

 

[RANKKA]

that future hawk captain is pretty good

 

[pit]

Remember that time someone was like "Why can't Connor Bedard single-handedly beat Slovakia?" and then a moment later he did?

Man, that was embarrassing.

 

[Curufinwe]

Are you telling me that Bedard, the greatest player in Jr history, with a bunch of 1t rd picks surrounding him, can't beat a team from half a country?

When you reach the bottom of a hole, you just keep on digging.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

that future hawk captain is pretty good

I prefer to think that there's no real conspiracy at the hands of Gary Bettman and select few, otherwise they would be able to take care of Yotes by now.

I rather follow "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" thing and I believe hawks, sharks and all the others including flyers got to the point where they are by sheer incompetence rather then some sort of drawn out 5d chess with Bedard in mind. The only overtly shitty team are Coyotes and even they tried to be competitive not too long ago before it all collapsed.

Short term Bedard's f***ed no matter what it seems.

 

[BigToe]

 

[TB87]

The transition stats in this miniscule sample are fascinating. Plus transition ability definitely wasn’t a thing in his draft year.



The Flyers are going to do everything they can to botch his development (See: wanting to sign him after 1 collegiate season). He’s not an elite player, so 1 and done doesn’t make any sense. He could use another year at BC.

 

[Curufinwe]

Farabee did fine after playing one college season. You don't need to be elite to play in the AHL/NHL as a 19 year old.

 

[renberg]

We got ourselves a ball game

The transition stats in this miniscule sample are fascinating. Plus transition ability definitely wasn’t a thing in his draft year.



The Flyers are going to do everything they can to botch his development (See: wanting to sign him after 1 collegiate season). He’s not an elite player, so 1 and done doesn’t make any sense. He could use another year at BC.

No doubt that Gauthier needs another season at BC. When watching the guys in the tournament, one has to remember that they are doing these things against players of their own young age group. To be an elite player in this tourney is to do what Bedard is doing and then transpose that into an NHL situation. For him it works.
Aside from Bedard there is no one else here that exhibits that level of play at this time. Don't expect Fantilli, Carlsson or any other player to step in next year and perform at a star level or even top six/four. Check out Nemec, he's a good player in this tournament but he presently doesn't show NHL talent. In a couple of years these guys will grow their games and be good NHL players but not quite now.

 

[renberg]

Farabee did fine after playing one college season. You don't need to be elite to play in the AHL/NHL as a 19 year old.

I'm not sold on the idea that Farabee wouldn't be where he is as a player now or better if he'd have gone back to school for another season. His +1 year here wasn't a gem. He played well but physically was dominated at times. Now his +2 and +3 seasons were quite good but there's nothing to say that he wouldn't have been just as good if he had played in college +1.
I have been concerned about Bee's ability to hold up physically over the last two seasons. Now with this neck injury, even more so. Just because a player has the skill set to play in the NHL doesn't mean that they should be there when they're that young. Getting physically ready matters as well. It's a concern that I have with Bedard next year.

 

[CutOnDime97]

This is my first time watching him and I'm not sure I understand the hate Cutter gets here. He doesn't look NHL ready and hasn't really jumped out in USA's games but he's got a nice skill set to work with if he can improve. Very intriguing prospect.

Not sure which is better, another year at BC or a year in the AHL.

 

[renberg]

This is my first time watching him and I'm not sure I understand the hate Cutter gets here. He doesn't look NHL ready and hasn't really jumped out in USA's games but he's got a nice skill set to work with if he can improve. Very intriguing prospect.

Not sure which is better, another year at BC or a year in the AHL.

Stay at BC. I don't want Lappy anywhere near a prospect that has potential.

 

[FLYguy3911]

 

[TB87]

I'm not sure I understand the hate Cutter gets here

It’s not necessarily directed at the player himself. EVERYONE, and I mean everyone knew that the Flyers were picking him at 5 prior to the draft. The Flyers (being the sloppy gossipy fools that they are) telegraphed to the rest of the league who they were going to pick. This gave the teams in the top 4 an advantage/leverage over them when the draft unfolded. It’s possible that a great player got picked ahead of him due to the Flyers sloppiness.


Missing out on a potentially great player is what pisses a lot of us off on this board. He’s going to be a good player…but he really doesn’t seem like a line driver. He’s a complimentary player. If you’re not getting a line driver and just a complimentary at 5, the smart play is to trade down and get more draft capital. The Flyers are dumb though, so that’s asking too much from them.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

This is my first time watching him and I'm not sure I understand the hate Cutter gets here. He doesn't look NHL ready and hasn't really jumped out in USA's games but he's got a nice skill set to work with if he can improve. Very intriguing prospect.

Not sure which is better, another year at BC or a year in the AHL.

Any year not spent in Flyers "try hard" development process is a better year for him

 

[CutOnDime97]

Stay at BC. I don't want Lappy anywhere near a prospect that has potential.

Any year not spent in Flyers "try hard" development process is a better year for him

Can't disagree with that. Hopefully there will be turnover at every level of this org by then though. Hopefully.

 

[Magua]

Farabee did fine after playing one college season. You don't need to be elite to play in the AHL/NHL as a 19 year old.

Well, Farabee was still a bit in over his head at 19 in the NHL. The question really isn't if a player can play at that level. Gauthier wouldn't look out of place in the AHL. The question is if it's best for hitting his ceiling. Farabee also didn't have this positional uncertainty. If you really want to see if a player can stick at center, why rush his comfort level? It's case by case: Gauthier still has a lot of feeling out to do with his game. But I fully expect he signs his ELC this spring. Something something size (even though playing more physical with the puck is an area he needs to develop).

The ELC year they'd probably burn next spring anyway, so that probably doesn't change the equation. If you don't believe that 19 year old is going to play in the NHL, what's the point? Not to go all HockeyGuy™, but I do believe dominating a lower level is essential to building confidence and exploring creativity. Going up a level means simplifying and often using your main skills as a crutch. Meanwhile, Gauthier being more comfortable as a playmaker is his swing trait. It's the elite tier play driving, confident, creative kids -- Zegras, Keller, etc. -- who adapt the best. Other guys -- Boldy, Caufield, Norris, Tuch, etc. -- who are more support players, or figuring out what they are, tend to excel with that 2nd year. I don't see Gauthier as a player who has all his tools in synchronization yet.

 

[deadhead]

Remember that time someone was like "Why can't Connor Bedard single-handedly beat Slovakia?" and then a moment later he did?

Man, that was embarrassing.

It took him to OT, McDavid would have put the game away earlier.

 

[deadhead]

Well, Farabee was still a bit in over his head at 19 in the NHL. The question really isn't if a player can play at that level. Gauthier wouldn't look out of place in the AHL. The question is if it's best for hitting his ceiling. Farabee also didn't have this positional uncertainty. If you really want to see if a player can stick at center, why rush his comfort level? It's case by case: Gauthier still has a lot of feeling out to do with his game. But I fully expect he signs his ELC this spring. Something something size (even though playing more physical with the puck is an area he needs to develop).

The ELC year they'd probably burn next spring anyway, so that probably doesn't change the equation. If you don't believe that 19 year old is going to play in the NHL, what's the point? Not to go all HockeyGuy™, but I do believe dominating a lower level is essential to building confidence and exploring creativity. Going up a level means simplifying and often using your main skills as a crutch. Meanwhile, Gauthier being more comfortable as a playmaker is his swing trait. It's the elite tier play driving, confident, creative kids -- Zegras, Keller, etc. -- who adapt the best. Other guys -- Boldy, Caufield, Norris, Tuch, etc. -- who are more support players, or figuring out what they are, tend to excel with that 2nd year. I don't see Gauthier as a player who has all his tools in synchronization yet.

Then you believe players like Frost should have played a year plus in the AHL until he mastered that level?
And it helped York to play a couple months in LHV when he struggled in camp.
B/c people have constantly bitched here that far less talented players than Gauthier were buried by the Flyers.

College > CHL in terms of preparing to play in the NHL since you're playing against older players, it's probably somewhere between the ECHL and AHL. So to me the decision should probably depend how he finishes the season, if he shows improvement over the first half, come out, if he stagnates, go back for another season.

Brink was a July birthday when he dominated the NCAA at age 20, but he wasn't physically developed at 18.
Gauthier is a January birthday, so he's six months older than Brink as a freshman (similar to Caufield who dominated as a sophomore).

 

[Magua]

Then you believe players like Frost should have played a year plus in the AHL until he mastered that level?
And it helped York to play a couple months in LHV when he struggled in camp.
B/c people have constantly bitched here that far less talented players than Gauthier were buried by the Flyers.

Huh? Frost played 2 years in junior. He didn't touch the AHL until age 20 (not 19), was an AHL All-Star, then he missed the entire next season with a shoulder injury. He played 65 AHL games -- that's a full year -- and was the best overall offensive player on the team in that time. I'd say he proved he was ready for the NHL. I've been on record saying Frost was not a made-to-order NHL star and needed the right developing. And I wasn't exactly leading the charge against York having a dud camp.

The transition stats in this miniscule sample are fascinating. Plus transition ability definitely wasn’t a thing in his draft year.

As you mentioned, I don't know how much you can take away from transitions against Germany, Switzerland, Latvia. And playing with linemates who put you in advantageous positions. But I also know someone like Scouching, because he's not a computer, is also using 5-8 game hand tracked samples. I did think in the 2 games online I saw pre-draft that his raw transition skill seemed undersold. He's a good skater, not great, but he's got good handle and navigation ability. There was some future where he was good at center lane breakouts. Now, being consistently engaged as a puck transporter is a separate matter.

 

[deadhead]

It’s not necessarily directed at the player himself. EVERYONE, and I mean everyone knew that the Flyers were picking him at 5 prior to the draft. The Flyers (being the sloppy gossipy fools that they are) telegraphed to the rest of the league who they were going to pick. This gave the teams in the top 4 an advantage/leverage over them when the draft unfolded. It’s possible that a great player got picked ahead of him due to the Flyers sloppiness.


Missing out on a potentially great player is what pisses a lot of us off on this board. He’s going to be a good player…but he really doesn’t seem like a line driver. He’s a complimentary player. If you’re not getting a line driver and just a complimentary at 5, the smart play is to trade down and get more draft capital. The Flyers are dumb though, so that’s asking too much from them.

Huh? It would be one thing is someone traded up to 6 to grab someone else knowing the Flyers were taking Gauthier, but the four teams ahead of the Flyers couldn't give a rat's ass who they selected, since they were picking the player they wanted in any case.

 

[deadhead]

Huh? Frost played 2 years in junior. He didn't touch the AHL until age 20 (not 19), was an AHL All-Star, then he missed the entire next season with a shoulder injury. He played 65 AHL games -- that's a full year -- and was the best overall offensive player on the team in that time. I'd say he proved he was ready for the NHL. I've been on record saying Frost was not a made-to-order NHL star and needed the right developing. And I wasn't exactly leading the charge against York having a dud camp.

Frost played 20 NHL games at 20, was over his head, and 41 AHL games.
Then missed a year.
People then whined when he started in the AHL and played 24 more games at 22.
2019-20: 41g 11-8 19 at ES
2021-22: 24g 5-7 12
65g 16-15 31, which is not dominant play at the AHL level.

Tippett
2019-20: 46g 12-14 26
2021-21: 12g 4-5 9
58g 16-19 35

Both players could have probably profited from a full AHL season plus, both were rushed, both struggled, both are playing better now, both still have a ways to go.

 

[PDX Flyer]

It took him to OT, McDavid would have put the game away earlier.

You just summed up your entire posting “strategy “ in one sentence.