Off Season Trade Thread vol. IV: Spezza's Long Goodbye

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WhiteLight*

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Not really

Not until Lehner and Cowen surpass Anderson and phillips which hasn't happened yet

I think Phillips was just as bad as Cowen this year if not worse. Cowen had worse moments, but Phillips was more consistently bad. Methot, Wiercioch, Cowen, Boro, etc. I don't think Phillips is an upgrade on anyone

Lehner and Anderson seem to be a wash at this point - Lehner with more room to improve obviously
 

HSF

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Stewart has been shipped out of two teams for being wildly inconsistent. One day he looks like a legit top line winger, and the next he's an invisible non-factor. You can say he has size, but what good is that if he doesn't use it? I don't want him anywhere near this team.

Stewart was not shipped out of col cause of inconsistent play. He was shipping to get what col thought was a number 1 defensemen to shore up an area of need.

Stewart used his size more in col He had over 100 hits in a season irrc

Hemsky was also shipped out of Edm cause he was 'done' I guess not eh
 

YouGotAStuGoing

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Interesting



Getting most of those guys out is a step in the right direction imo. Only guys you could make an argument for is Spezza and Anderson, and they both have injury and consistency issues; I think it's best to just move on at this point considering the depth the team has

Probably why he specifically wants those players gone. (Minus Spezza)

We'll agree to disagree, then. Spezza is gone, I think, but this team is not better off without him. Losing him leaves us without a true #1C, and ask Toronto how easy that role is to fill.

Anderson and Lehner are NOT a wash, although I'll give you that it's getting closer and closer every year. Anderson is still the better goalie, and there's a lot to be said about goaltending depth. Even if he and Lehner ARE a wash, I'd rather have an Andy/Lehner tandem than a Lehner/Hammond, Lehner/Lawson or Lehner/FA pickup tandem.

Getting rid of Michalek, IMO, is not the answer either. He's the kind of player who doesn't make those around him any better. That's true. But Ottawa is working from a position of weakness on the wing. Getting rid of another top six winger when nobody is ready to step into his role is not the answer — it just creates another gap.

Greening (and I know, not a popular opinion around these parts) is not as bad as everyone is making him out to be. He has one off year and all of a sudden he's a bum, a waste of space and a liability? No. He regressed this year. So did most of the team. His regression just happened to come right as a big-money contract is about to kick in. After what he gave us two seasons ago, I'm willing to gamble on him for at least the upcoming season.

No arguments on Phillips or Neil, though.
 

HSF

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I think Phillips was just as bad as Cowen this year if not worse. Cowen had worse moments, but Phillips was more consistently bad. Methot, Wiercioch, Cowen, Boro, etc. I don't think Phillips is an upgrade on anyone

Lehner and Anderson seem to be a wash at this point - Lehner with more room to improve obviously
No Cowen was much much worse. There wasn't a single point in the season where Cowen look comfortable
 

God Says No

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The problem with Stewart was he didn't use his body to create space. He's an off the rush guy who doesn't play physical and is a defensive liability. He will drop the gloves but don't expect any hitting. He is also a huge liability defensively and can't work a cycle properly. He has all the tools but it just seems like he can't put it all together.

Stewart was not shipped out of col cause of inconsistent play. He was shipping to get what col thought was a number 1 defensemen to shore up an area of need.

Stewart used his size more in col He had over 100 hits in a season irrc

Hemsky was also shipped out of Edm cause he was 'done' I guess not eh

You can't compare Hemsky with Stewart. Completely different situations. Hemsky was dealt because he was an upcoming FA, and wasn't going to sign with EDM. Stewart was dealt from STL because he didn't fit the winning team like STL. It's pretty telling that a Stanley cup hopeful just gives up a player and deems him not useful enough for a cup run.

BTW, for your convenience I quoted a Blues fan who seems to know Stewart better than you.
 

SilverSeven

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Stewart has been shipped out of two teams for being wildly inconsistent. One day he looks like a legit top line winger, and the next he's an invisible non-factor. You can say he has size, but what good is that if he doesn't use it? I don't want him anywhere near this team.

Not to mention Hemsky got to play with Spezza... Lots of people look good with Spezza. Stewart wouldn't have that luxury.
 

Qward

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I like the fact Berglund is a lefty.
His face off % is garbage so he would be better suited at LW.

Spezza + Puempel for Berglund + Shattenkirk + 1st
Condra, Wiercioch, Prince for Stewart

MacArthur/Turris/Ryan - Our best line of the year
Berglund/Zibanejad/Stone - Berglund will help Zibby and Stone loves to pass and Zibby loves to shoot.
Greening/Lazar/Stewart - Stewart and Greening would protect Curtis
Hoffman/Smith/Neil - add some speed and skill to offset Neil

Cowen/Karlsson - stay at home and PMD
Methot/Shattenkirk - stay at home and PMD
Phillips/Ceci - stay in casket and PMD

Anderson
Lehner
 

Valar Morghulis

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Stewart was not shipped out of col cause of inconsistent play. He was shipping to get what col thought was a number 1 defensemen to shore up an area of need.

Stewart used his size more in col He had over 100 hits in a season irrc

Hemsky was also shipped out of Edm cause he was 'done' I guess not eh

Of course he was. He would float around the ice all the time. He had no clue how to cycle (which the Avs loved to do) and be completely oblivious to defense. He has speed and a great shot and that's it. His hits are also inconsistent and he doesn't actually use his body to his advantage to score. And If he's not on a hot streak, then he will be invisible.

Avs fans were happy to see him go, it was Shatty that was the center piece.
 

Valar Morghulis

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Not to mention Hemsky got to play with Spezza... Lots of people look good with Spezza. Stewart wouldn't have that luxury.

I actually think he would look good next to Spezza. But only in the sense that he would put up points. Spezza and Stewart on a line together would be a train wreck defensively.
 

God Says No

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I like the fact Berglund is a lefty.
His face off % is garbage so he would be better suited at LW.

Spezza + Puempel for Berglund + Shattenkirk + 1st
Condra, Wiercioch, Prince for Stewart

2 things I don't like about those deals. (well 3 really)

We decimate our LW depth, and it's not too strong right now. We pay way too much for Stewart. Bonus thing I don't like: Stewart.
 

fringie

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I would think the St Louis package would be better for us, and now hearing a lot more teams are interested, the return should be pretty good. But that Palmieri + Sbisa + 10th pick proposal by tsn.ca is not going to be good enough, in fact I think most fans here would be pretty mad if that is the return for Spezza. I still think St Louis and Colorado are ideal trading partners, and I like some of the young players in Minny too. I would be pretty happy with dealing him to any of those 3 teams.
 

fringie

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I like the fact Berglund is a lefty.
His face off % is garbage so he would be better suited at LW.

Spezza + Puempel for Berglund + Shattenkirk + 1st
Condra, Wiercioch, Prince for Stewart

Lehner

Not sure about these two deals, I would not trade Puempel at this point. I think Spezza + Boro for Berlund + Sharttenkirk + a A-prospoect is fine with me.

I don't like Stewart much, too inconsistent, also too much money, so no way says Eugene..
 

WhiteLight*

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We'll agree to disagree, then. Spezza is gone, I think, but this team is not better off without him. Losing him leaves us without a true #1C, and ask Toronto how easy that role is to fill.

Ask Montreal and New York if you can win without a ''#1 centre''. Stepan, Richards, Plekanec, Desharnais, Eller. That's Turris and Zibanejad territory. And I'd argue the Sens duo could surpass that in time.

Spezza is not Toews, Getzlaf, Kopitar level - and because of that, he's replaceable (maybe not offensively, but as an overall player). A high scoring centre is not necessary for success; see MTL and NYR.

Anderson and Lehner are NOT a wash, although I'll give you that it's getting closer and closer every year. Anderson is still the better goalie, and there's a lot to be said about goaltending depth. Even if he and Lehner ARE a wash, I'd rather have an Andy/Lehner tandem than a Lehner/Hammond, Lehner/Lawson or Lehner/FA pickup tandem.

Lehner had a better save % than Anderson this year. Lehner stole games while Anderson lost some on his own. Lehner had a bad month, and other than that would blow Anderson out of the water. I think they're close, with Lehner about to surpass at any time; therefore, there is no need to spend precious $3.5M on Anderson.

There are plenty decent UFA options out there: Peters, Montoya, Johnson, Bryz, Giguere, McElhinney, Greiss, Elliott, Halak. Good year for goalies. Pair Lehner with any of these and I doubt the Sens suffer in the standings.

Getting rid of Michalek, IMO, is not the answer either. He's the kind of player who doesn't make those around him any better. That's true. But Ottawa is working from a position of weakness on the wing. Getting rid of another top six winger when nobody is ready to step into his role is not the answer — it just creates another gap.

Michalek is not a top 6 winger anymore though. He's bad defensively and doesn't create offense. Hemsky could easily be re-signed if you have concerns. Stone looked very good. Hoffman has the skills, just needs to put it together. Who knows what Puempel and Prince can do at the NHL level. Da Costa could be converted. UFA signing in the mould of Jussi Jokinen, etc.

Greening (and I know, not a popular opinion around these parts) is not as bad as everyone is making him out to be. He has one off year and all of a sudden he's a bum, a waste of space and a liability? No. He regressed this year. So did most of the team. His regression just happened to come right as a big-money contract is about to kick in. After what he gave us two seasons ago, I'm willing to gamble on him for at least the upcoming season.

No arguments on Phillips or Neil, though.

Greening's problem is that he can't score in the bottom 6. He needs guys to handle the puck for him to create time and space. Guy can shoot but has no puck handling skills. He was a good fit chemistry wise with Spezza in 2011-12, but Ottawa doesn't have that caliber of player anymore. Best case scenario for Greening and the Senators is Greening playing in the top 6 with Spezza and scoring over 30 points; in which case the Sens will be desperate for an upgrade in the top 6.

I also don't see Greening putting more than 20 points in the bottom 6, especially if his minutes go down like they should. #OverpaidandUseless

Either way, Greening should be outta here
 

HSF

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Condra Weirchioch and Prince I would do. Those guys won't get a chance here might as well get a better player
 

HSF

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Of course he was. He would float around the ice all the time. He had no clue how to cycle (which the Avs loved to do) and be completely oblivious to defense. He has speed and a great shot and that's it. His hits are also inconsistent and he doesn't actually use his body to his advantage to score. And If he's not on a hot streak, then he will be invisible.

Avs fans were happy to see him go, it was Shatty that was the center piece.
LOL no Stewart was the best player in that deal at the time. Come on doesn't know how to cycle? Ya most good players don't cycle I would leave that too my grinders if u want. If he can score has size and speed he is gladly welcome on my team. Ryan can't even cycle

If Stewart was consistent he would be a 50 goal scorer... A top 6 player is always inconsistent... Ryan is... Turris is and MacArthur is. No one is saying Stewart is a top line franchise consistent player like spezza
 

Qward

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I have a feeling the Sens will sign Eric Selleck since Kassian won't be coming back and Murray seems to like getting a tough guy to sit in the presser.
 

WhiteLight*

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I like the fact Berglund is a lefty.
His face off % is garbage so he would be better suited at LW.

Spezza + Puempel for Berglund + Shattenkirk + 1st
Condra, Wiercioch, Prince for Stewart

MacArthur/Turris/Ryan - Our best line of the year
Berglund/Zibanejad/Stone - Berglund will help Zibby and Stone loves to pass and Zibby loves to shoot.
Greening/Lazar/Stewart - Stewart and Greening would protect Curtis
Hoffman/Smith/Neil - add some speed and skill to offset Neil

Cowen/Karlsson - stay at home and PMD
Methot/Shattenkirk - stay at home and PMD
Phillips/Ceci - stay in casket and PMD

Anderson
Lehner

I don't know why Puempel would be of much interest to St. Louis. On the other hand, he might be valued a lot by the Sens. Switch Puempel with Greening, and I think I might do that. St. Louis needs bottom 6 wingers with Ott presumingly leaving, and also with Ottawa getting Berglund
 

Deku

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I have a feeling the Sens will sign Eric Selleck since Kassian won't be coming back and Murray seems to like getting a tough guy to sit in the presser.

2 NHL games under his belt at 26 yrs old. Is there really no better options for tough guys?
 

Valar Morghulis

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LOL no Stewart was the best player in that deal at the time. Come on doesn't know how to cycle? Ya most good players don't cycle I would leave that too my grinders if u want. If he can score has size and speed he is gladly welcome on my team. Ryan can't even cycle

If Stewart was consistent he would be a 50 goal scorer... A top 6 player is always inconsistent... Ryan is... Turris is and MacArthur is. No one is saying Stewart is a top line franchise consistent player like spezza

He's only good off the rush or standing still waiting for the puck to arrive on his stick. When the puck is in the offensive zone he just circles around. Sure those guys are inconsistent too, everyone is, but at least they can do other things when they aren't scoring.
 

Qward

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I don't know why Puempel would be of much interest to St. Louis. On the other hand, he might be valued a lot by the Sens. Switch Puempel with Greening, and I think I might do that. St. Louis needs bottom 6 wingers with Ott presumingly leaving, and also with Ottawa getting Berglund

Just trying to balance out the value. I doubt they want Greening. Berglund may have played lower this year, but before he was on their second line with Stewart and Perron. Re-uniting Stewart and Berglund would be instant chemistry since they both know how each other plays.

2 NHL games under his belt at 26 yrs old. Is there really no better options for tough guys?

Move of a hope than anything since his cousin in my best friend :laugh:
 

Qward

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He's only good off the rush or standing still waiting for the puck to arrive on his stick. When the puck is in the offensive zone he just circles around. Sure those guys are inconsistent too, everyone is, but at least they can do other things when they aren't scoring.

He can park his ass infront of the goalie and get dirty goals as well as the snipes.
Other thing I like about him is that he sticks up for his team mates and he is a good fighter. Ease pressure off Neil without having to dress an enforcer like Kassian.
 

HockeySens

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Ask Montreal and New York if you can win without a ''#1 centre''. Stepan, Richards, Plekanec, Desharnais, Eller. That's Turris and Zibanejad territory. And I'd argue the Sens duo could surpass that in time.

Spezza is not Toews, Getzlaf, Kopitar level - and because of that, he's replaceable (maybe not offensively, but as an overall player). A high scoring centre is not necessary for success; see MTL and NYR.

The difference is those 2 teams have 2 of the best goalies in the nhl + solid defense. Their bottom 6 is actually much better than the sens. Spezza is replacable but trading him is not gonna make the sens similar to montreal and nyr.
 

Benjamin

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The difference is those 2 teams have 2 of the best goalies in the nhl + solid defense. Their bottom 6 is actually much better than the sens. Spezza is replacable but trading him is not gonna make the sens similar to montreal and nyr.

Keeping Spezza wont make the Sens as good as Montreal or NYR, or better.

Look how Montreal beat Boston. Can Spezza play that hockey? Nope.

Counter attacking and tight-checking defense first is the new NHL.
 

HockeySens

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Keeping Spezza wont make the Sens as good as Montreal or NYR, or better.

Look how Montreal beat Boston. Can Spezza play that hockey? Nope.

Counter attacking and tight-checking defense first is the new NHL.

Fair point but Price was montreals best player and a big reason why they won. They have an elite goalie. Also was wondering what pieces Spezza can return that will make Ottawa a better team
 
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