Proposal: Off Season Trade Thread vol. III

[God Says No]

So its OK to potentially take a lesser return just because we dont wanna play Spezza 6 or 4 times?

I'd rather get the best return that helps the full 82 games instead of worrying about 6 games...

I think so. Look how facing Bishop has set us up. Those were crucial games against TB that we lost due to a large part of Bishop.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Do you really want to be on the losing end of the 8-0, 8-2 days?

Doesn't that always happen against the Leafs anyways?

 

[Bileur]

So its OK to potentially take a lesser return just because we dont wanna play Spezza 6 or 4 times?

I'd rather get the best return that helps the full 82 games instead of worrying about 6 games...

It would take more to trade a guy to a division rival. That's a gimme in sports.

 

[POOLSHARK19]

WOW... Just posted a proposal on the main boards

SPEZZA
2nd rd pick

for

KADRI
GARDINER

and a MOD locked the thread saying "Mods concurr value is too far off, thread closed"
of course his avatar was a leafs logo...

Have I gone crazy?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

WOW... Just posted a proposal on the main boards

SPEZZA
2nd rd pick

for

KADRI
GARDINER

and a MOD locked the thread saying "Mods concurr value is too far off, thread closed"
of course his avatar was a leafs logo...

Have I gone crazy?

Yes. Yes you have. Way too much of a steal for Toronto. Only way that happens is if Mad Mike Milbury takes over as Sens GM.

 

[POOLSHARK19]

Yes. Yes you have. Way too much of a steal for Toronto. Only way that happens is if Mad Mike Milbury takes over as Sens GM.

LOL that's what I thought! The leaf fans we're going crazy, saying what a terrible offer, worst I've ever seen etc... And then a mod with a big leafs avatar said that the mods concurred the value was wayy too far off for Toronto, and that the thread was now locked!

What a funny mod

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

LOL that's what I thought! The leaf fans we're going crazy, saying what a terrible offer, worst I've ever seen etc... And then a mod with a big leafs avatar said that the mods concurred the value was wayy too far off for Toronto, and that the thread was now locked!

What a funny mod

Well, Kadri is on his way out for being a headcase, and virtually every Leafs proposal has Gardiner included by Leaf fans, so you know there's got to be some skellys in his closet. Dumping two headaches for a PPG 1C? Any fan with a brain would be laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[Alfie#11]

Originally Posted by John Holmes

Trade Spezza for Kadri & Gardiner + 1st.
Sign Grabovsky
????
Profit

Toronto would have to offer more.

In fact, we won't get that much from Toronto. You might get two of those assets. Far more likely is one of those assets and a smaller piece like a 2nd rounder or B level pick or lesser player.

 

[Micklebot]

Originally Posted by John Holmes

Trade Spezza for Kadri & Gardiner + 1st.
Sign Grabovsky
????
Profit



In fact, we won't get that much from Toronto. You might get two of those assets. Far more likely is one of those assets and a smaller piece like a 2nd rounder or B level pick or lesser player.

I imagine the Sens would have a similar reponse if the leafs offered your propsed package. This is one of those cases where both sides would want more than the other is willing to give up.

 

[John Holmes*]

We're not going to be facing Spezza from the pizza line days though.

If he is moved.

 

[Alfie#11]

Toronto would have to offer more.

I imagine the Sens would have a similar reponse if the leafs offered your propsed package. This is one of those cases where both sides would want more than the other is willing to give up.

Maybe, I just think Sens fans are setting themselves up for disappointment with the deals they are proposing.

They're far more likely to get iffy assets back for Spezza. Much like the Heatley trade. The Sens have signaled they aren't committed to Spezza, so it's not like they are so attached to him that they will demand a super return to pry him away.

We're gonna take it on the chin in a Spezza deal, so I would get ready to be disappointed.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

I think the Leafs #1 target will be E Staal, #2 J Staal. I dont think Spezza will be in their plans. I'm a HUGE fan of targetting Grabovski + Kulemin if we trade Spezza, though. If we acquire Kadri, though, signing Grabo makes zero sense. It would just create issues and struggle amongst teammates.

 

[ATdaisuki]

We're not going to be facing Spezza from the pizza line days though.

If he is moved.

i don't really think he's declined too much since then. he's just had scrubs for line-mates.

to be honest, i question whether or not kessel and spezza would have chemistry, but spezza and jvr would be basically killer and absolutely money on the power play.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

We're not going to be facing Spezza from the pizza line days though.

If he is moved.

I fear the Spezza from 2011-2012 far more than Pizza line Spezza...

 

[Micklebot]

Maybe, I just think Sens fans are setting themselves up for disappointment with the deals they are proposing.

They're far more likely to get iffy assets back for Spezza. Much like the Heatley trade. The Sens have signaled they aren't committed to Spezza, so it's not like they are so attached to him that they will demand a super return to pry him away.

We're gonna take it on the chin in a Spezza deal, so I would get ready to be disappointed.

The Heatley trade was very different in 2 ways:

1. It was a closed market; Heatley had full control over where he wanted to go, and used it. Most teams just weren't in the running right from the start.

2. We had a pretty firm deadline in moving him. The org didn't want to have hijm as a distraction to start the season and was unwilling to hold on for a better offer.

With Spezza, we can trade at the draft, or hold off for the trade deadline. We could even opt to keep him. The other team doesn't have the leverage SJ had, and if the Blues make an offer, you could see SJ try and beat it just to keep him away from one of their competitors.

I'm not saying that we'll get a kings ransom, but there is no need to settle for scraps either.

 

[The Fuhr*]

Kadri is 23Yrs old coming off a 50 point season and RFA at seasons end

Spezza is 30 years old coming off a 66 point season... UFA at seasons end.

I'd be happy getting Kadri straight up for Spezza

 

[The Fuhr*]

The Heatley trade was very different in 2 ways:

1. It was a closed market; Heatley had full control over where he wanted to go, and used it. Most teams just weren't in the running right from the start.

2. We had a pretty firm deadline in moving him. The org didn't want to have hijm as a distraction to start the season and was unwilling to hold on for a better offer.

With Spezza, we can trade at the draft, or hold off for the trade deadline. We could even opt to keep him. The other team doesn't have the leverage SJ had, and if the Blues make an offer, you could see SJ try and beat it just to keep him away from one of their competitors.

I'm not saying that we'll get a kings ransom, but there is no need to settle for scraps either.

If Spezza does not sign an extension then his value hurts.

Nobody is going to pay a ransom for a guy that is going to walk as a UFA

 

[Qward]

Kadri is 23Yrs old coming off a 50 point season and RFA at seasons end

Spezza is 30 years old coming off a 66 point season... UFA at seasons end.

I'd be happy getting Kadri straight up for Spezza

I would like something else to reflect the true value of Spezza.

Gardiner would be a good addition.

That being said, I would rather send him west.

 

[Benjamin]

Kadri is 23Yrs old coming off a 50 point season and RFA at seasons end

Spezza is 30 years old coming off a 66 point season... UFA at seasons end.

I'd be happy getting Kadri straight up for Spezza

Most people dont seem to look at the Spezza situation long term.

 

[ATdaisuki]

Kadri is 23Yrs old coming off a 50 point season and RFA at seasons end

Spezza is 30 years old coming off a 66 point season... UFA at seasons end.

I'd be happy getting Kadri straight up for Spezza

so you're projecting kadri to go up, and spezza to continue to have bad years? he missed a year of hockey and was ppg in the new year (you know, when he was healthy again).

let's remove the obviously biased part of your statement

23 year old 50 point center who is an rfa at the end of his current deal for 30 year old ufa ppg center.

it still looks good for kadri (as i said, he's a good piece), but the removal of the use of your outlier stat brings it much closer to reality (reality being kadri alone is not a weak return for spezza).

 

[Alfie#11]

I would like something else to reflect the true value of Spezza.

Gardiner would be a good addition.

That being said, I would rather send him west.

That would be the best option to me. If not West, at least not Toronto or Montreal.

Seeing Spezza in a Leafs sweater because we traded him there would be an absolute humiliation. Having our arch-rivals with our number one centre screams that we're a B class team that can't/won't compete.

Lose our long term captain and then watch our former star centre light us up at home....yeah, I really want to see that. Melnyk might as well take a dump on the logo in the middle of the dressing room.

 

[ATdaisuki]

That would be the best option to me. If not West, at least not Toronto or Montreal.

Seeing Spezza in a Leafs sweater because we traded him there would be an absolute humiliation. Having our arch-rivals with our number one centre screams that we're a B class team that can't/won't compete.

Lose our long term captain and then watch our former star centre light us up at home....yeah, I really want to see that. Melnyk might as well take a dump on the logo in the middle of the dressing room.

again, i'd rather keep spezza, but i'm with benny on this one. i want the best return possible. it doesn't matter if it's to toronto or montreal

 

[Alfie#11]

The Heatley trade was very different in 2 ways:

1. It was a closed market; Heatley had full control over where he wanted to go, and used it. Most teams just weren't in the running right from the start.

2. We had a pretty firm deadline in moving him. The org didn't want to have hijm as a distraction to start the season and was unwilling to hold on for a better offer.

With Spezza, we can trade at the draft, or hold off for the trade deadline. We could even opt to keep him. The other team doesn't have the leverage SJ had, and if the Blues make an offer, you could see SJ try and beat it just to keep him away from one of their competitors.

I'm not saying that we'll get a kings ransom, but there is no need to settle for scraps either.

My thinking is the Sens have basically decided to move on from Spezza. That's what the "He’s our captain, at this point, he has a year left on his contract. We’ll see where we go with him,†message said to me. It doesn't rule out re-signing absolutely but that's not the message they put out. Anything less than a vote of confidence is putting the message out there that the Sens want to move on.

We may not be cornered into a deal like the Heatley situation but there are a couple of points to look at (at least to me).

1.It sounds like they want to move on. They didn't come out and say we support our captain and want to build around him. That's telling. If you want to move on from a player, maximizing value is not necessarily at the top of your list. It may be a case of doing the best you can in a trade.
2.Spezza is a UFA at the end of next season. Given the teams uncertainty with him, I'm not sure Spezza would want to come back. You can keep him and risk losing him for nothing next summer.
3.Teams spend their money in the summer and then you basically don't see any trades of note until the trade deadline. Spezza is not a trigger you pull at any time. You can move him in the summer and build a team without him or you can wait until the deadline and get the most you can for him.

I think they take the most reasonable deal available to them in the summer, likely at or before the draft.

 

[Micklebot]

Most people dont seem to look at the Spezza situation long term.

Right, because 1 year and probable extension wherever he goes of a player who is a point per game player outside of a year coming of a long term injury is only worth a 2nd line player.

In all likelyhood, this will rank as Spezza's worst year including the next 5+ years, but the doom and gloom grass is always greener on the other side of the fence crowd around here think trading him is addition by subtraction.

 

[Alfie#11]

again, i'd rather keep spezza, but i'm with benny on this one. i want the best return possible. it doesn't matter if it's to toronto or montreal

Here's the thing - we're likely to perma-suck even with the assets we get in a Spezza deal.

We're not rebuilding in Ottawa. We are downsizing from Maseratis to Kias. I'd rather not see my arch rival drive my Maserati around my neighborhood while I putt around in a crappy Kia.