Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Pt VII: Things keep happening!
- Thread starter The Nemesis
- Start date
- Status
I can't tell if he's just a professional troll at this point or if he's actually this stupid.
Literally all the other prospect evaluators agreed with the Jays when they rated themselves so highly, but he's still mad at the Jays for liking their system.
phillipmike
Registered User
- Oct 27, 2009
- 12,983
- 9,186
There must be a corresponding move to sign Phelps. Though the signing of Phelps isnt official yet so a 40 man spot isnt needed until the the signing is official.
I assume the Jays either have a trade lined up or they will put Payamps or say Palacios on waivers to make room for Phelps.
phillipmike
Registered User
- Oct 27, 2009
- 12,983
- 9,186
This has to be Ben Cherington.
Alright lets give him $12M and call it a day.
Animal
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2012
- 952
- 108
I mean I understand being high on our prospects, but saying both Martin and Groshans are superstars is a bit much
phillipmike
Registered User
- Oct 27, 2009
- 12,983
- 9,186
Blue Jays 2021 prospect rankings: Keith Law on Toronto’s top 20 – The Athletic
1. Nate Pearson, RHP (Top 100 rank: No. 5)
From the Top 100: Pearson’s debut in the majors was tantalizing, but as with his first full pro season in 2018, it was interrupted by injury, leaving him still eligible for these rankings. Pearson averaged 96.3 mph on his four-seamer, showed a full four-pitch mix, all three of which at least missed bats, although he leaned most on his slider and the pitch wasn’t as consistent as it has been in the past. He’s 6 feet 6 inches and 250 pounds, with a good delivery that he has learned to repeat since the Jays signed him, so in theory he should be durable. Still, he had several fluky injuries in 2018 that limited him to one inning, and a flexor strain sent him to the injured list in late August, after which the Jays used him for just a single relief appearance. If he can stay healthy, there are very few starting pitching prospects who can match his stuff and size, which give him the ceiling of a No. 1 starter.
2. Austin Martin, SS (Top 100 rank: No. 14)
From the Top 100: The best prospect in the 2020 draft class slipped to the Blue Jays, who picked fifth and were probably delighted to have a player with his kind of potential get to their selection. Martin has exceptional hand-eye coordination and plus-plus bat speed, striking out only 36 times with 50 walks in 392 PA over his last year-plus at Vanderbilt. He’s probably best suited to third base, but the Jays intend to try him out at shortstop — which he has the athleticism and foot speed to handle — with third, second or even center field all possibilities. He did have some throwing trouble in the brief college season in 2020, but it’s not supposed to be a long-term issue and the Jays seem comfortable with his throwing post-draft. This bat at a skill position is pretty unusual and gives him some MVP upside, although we should be a little cautious since he has yet to take a pro at-bat.
3. Alek Manoah, RHP (Top 100 rank: No. 79)
From the Top 100: Manoah was the top college right-hander in the 2019 draft but the Blue Jays got him with the 11th pick on some concerns about his size and minor health issues before his draft year. It looks like a steal now as Manoah continues to stay healthy and throw hard, while improving his conditioning over the course of 2020 and the last two offseasons. Manoah sits 93-94 and can touch 98, with an above-average slider and above-average changeup as well as a curveball he can land for strikes. He is big, 6-6 and 260 in college, and only pitches from the stretch, but he throws strikes and attacks guys consistently with his fastball, an approach that should continue to serve him well as he moves up the ladder. He does have to keep his body in shape, but if he stays healthy he should be in the Blue Jays’ rotation within the next two seasons, with mid-rotation upside.
4. Alejandro Kirk, C (Top 100 rank: No. 92)
From the Top 100: Kirk got a surprise call-up to the majors and was very impressive for a kid who’d never played above High A, and had just 151 professional games total before he reached the big leagues. His bat-to-ball skill and swing decisions are both excellent, leading to very low strikeout rates, while he’s got explosive acceleration at the plate and showed in the majors he can hit for power the other way and turn on 97 in. He’s a solid catcher who can frame, block and throw well, but he’s on the big side already for a catcher at age 22 and has to maintain his conditioning. He was listed at 5-foot-8 and 265 pounds last year, and while he’s apparently lost weight heading into spring training, that’s going to be an ongoing issue for him so he can stay behind the plate, as there’s no other position for a player with his build. His bat will make him a longtime regular as a catcher, with a chance to be a star if he keeps his body in shape for it.
5. Orelvis Martinez, SS (Top 100 rank: No. 98)
From the Top 100: Martinez is still just 19 but finished the summer at the Blue Jays’ alternate site, impressing the team with his production against older pitching. The ball explodes off his bat thanks to his plus bat speed and present power, while he has already shown glimpses of advanced plate discipline. In the field, he’s got a plus arm and great hands, still playing shortstop but with a body that might eventually push him to third base. I noted last winter that he might be the Jays’ best prospect in a year, but with no minor league season to show progress and the addition of the best player in the 2020 draft in Austin Martin, Martinez has to wait a year for any such coronation. He has an enormous ceiling as a strong OBP guy with 25-30 homers and plus defense at third. We just need to see how the bat plays at higher levels.
6. Jordan Groshans, 3B (Just Missed)
From the Just Missed: Last year I wrote this about Groshans: “A full, healthy year in 2020 will help establish just how advanced his bat is and whether he has the power to be a star even in a corner.” Ah, well, it was a good thought, but because of the pandemic Groshans hasn’t taken an at-bat in an actual game since May 2019. Groshans did spend the summer at the Jays’ alternate site, facing a lot of pitchers who had appeared in the big leagues or were close to doing so, which is better than no experience but doesn’t give us much new information, such as whether he’s still rotating his hips early and cutting off some of his potential power. He does have a great swing path and has shown an ability to make some adjustments in the limited experience he has in pro ball. I’d just like to see him produce over a longer period against better pitching now.
7. Gabriel Moreno, C
Moreno spent the summer at the Jays’ alternate site and hit well even though he was just 20 years old and had no experience above low A going into the year, then went back to his native Venezuela and hit .373/.471/.508 in 18 games for Lara, with 11 walks and just six strikeouts. He has an above-average arm and is athletic, needing work on the other defensive aspects of catching, but got some of that experience in 2020 when most prospects got little to none. I’m in.
8. Simeon Woods Richardson, RHP
Woods Richardson came with Anthony Kay in the Marcus Stroman trade and impressed the Blue Jays in spring training 2.0 and at the alternate site. His stuff has backed up slightly since high school, with a solid-average fastball and above-average changeup, along with very good control. His arm is extremely late relative to when his front leg lands and he hasn’t shown an average breaking ball yet, so he has several obstacles ahead of him to reach his mid-rotation ceiling.
9. Miguel Hiraldo, SS/2B
Hiraldo has good hand-eye coordination with high contact rates even though he can collapse his back side by overswinging, which you’d associate with power hitters who strike out all the time. The Jays have worked on getting his swing more consistent and worked on his physique so he might stay at short, although he projects as a more likely second baseman who hits for average and doubles power.
10. CJ Van Eyk, RHP
Van Eyk might have ended up in the first round had there been a full spring in 2020; he looked great in preseason and in his first outing, was up and down for three outings after that, then the world ended before he could prove the early version was real. He was 91-95 mph with a nearly 12/6 curveball that was plus when he was at his best and a hard changeup. I didn’t love the cutoff in his delivery, which limited his ability to go to his glove side, but the Jays can probably get him more online to the plate. He has a good chance to be a No. 4 starter, with a ceiling a tick above that.
1. Nate Pearson, RHP (Top 100 rank: No. 5)
From the Top 100: Pearson’s debut in the majors was tantalizing, but as with his first full pro season in 2018, it was interrupted by injury, leaving him still eligible for these rankings. Pearson averaged 96.3 mph on his four-seamer, showed a full four-pitch mix, all three of which at least missed bats, although he leaned most on his slider and the pitch wasn’t as consistent as it has been in the past. He’s 6 feet 6 inches and 250 pounds, with a good delivery that he has learned to repeat since the Jays signed him, so in theory he should be durable. Still, he had several fluky injuries in 2018 that limited him to one inning, and a flexor strain sent him to the injured list in late August, after which the Jays used him for just a single relief appearance. If he can stay healthy, there are very few starting pitching prospects who can match his stuff and size, which give him the ceiling of a No. 1 starter.
2. Austin Martin, SS (Top 100 rank: No. 14)
From the Top 100: The best prospect in the 2020 draft class slipped to the Blue Jays, who picked fifth and were probably delighted to have a player with his kind of potential get to their selection. Martin has exceptional hand-eye coordination and plus-plus bat speed, striking out only 36 times with 50 walks in 392 PA over his last year-plus at Vanderbilt. He’s probably best suited to third base, but the Jays intend to try him out at shortstop — which he has the athleticism and foot speed to handle — with third, second or even center field all possibilities. He did have some throwing trouble in the brief college season in 2020, but it’s not supposed to be a long-term issue and the Jays seem comfortable with his throwing post-draft. This bat at a skill position is pretty unusual and gives him some MVP upside, although we should be a little cautious since he has yet to take a pro at-bat.
3. Alek Manoah, RHP (Top 100 rank: No. 79)
From the Top 100: Manoah was the top college right-hander in the 2019 draft but the Blue Jays got him with the 11th pick on some concerns about his size and minor health issues before his draft year. It looks like a steal now as Manoah continues to stay healthy and throw hard, while improving his conditioning over the course of 2020 and the last two offseasons. Manoah sits 93-94 and can touch 98, with an above-average slider and above-average changeup as well as a curveball he can land for strikes. He is big, 6-6 and 260 in college, and only pitches from the stretch, but he throws strikes and attacks guys consistently with his fastball, an approach that should continue to serve him well as he moves up the ladder. He does have to keep his body in shape, but if he stays healthy he should be in the Blue Jays’ rotation within the next two seasons, with mid-rotation upside.
4. Alejandro Kirk, C (Top 100 rank: No. 92)
From the Top 100: Kirk got a surprise call-up to the majors and was very impressive for a kid who’d never played above High A, and had just 151 professional games total before he reached the big leagues. His bat-to-ball skill and swing decisions are both excellent, leading to very low strikeout rates, while he’s got explosive acceleration at the plate and showed in the majors he can hit for power the other way and turn on 97 in. He’s a solid catcher who can frame, block and throw well, but he’s on the big side already for a catcher at age 22 and has to maintain his conditioning. He was listed at 5-foot-8 and 265 pounds last year, and while he’s apparently lost weight heading into spring training, that’s going to be an ongoing issue for him so he can stay behind the plate, as there’s no other position for a player with his build. His bat will make him a longtime regular as a catcher, with a chance to be a star if he keeps his body in shape for it.
5. Orelvis Martinez, SS (Top 100 rank: No. 98)
From the Top 100: Martinez is still just 19 but finished the summer at the Blue Jays’ alternate site, impressing the team with his production against older pitching. The ball explodes off his bat thanks to his plus bat speed and present power, while he has already shown glimpses of advanced plate discipline. In the field, he’s got a plus arm and great hands, still playing shortstop but with a body that might eventually push him to third base. I noted last winter that he might be the Jays’ best prospect in a year, but with no minor league season to show progress and the addition of the best player in the 2020 draft in Austin Martin, Martinez has to wait a year for any such coronation. He has an enormous ceiling as a strong OBP guy with 25-30 homers and plus defense at third. We just need to see how the bat plays at higher levels.
6. Jordan Groshans, 3B (Just Missed)
From the Just Missed: Last year I wrote this about Groshans: “A full, healthy year in 2020 will help establish just how advanced his bat is and whether he has the power to be a star even in a corner.” Ah, well, it was a good thought, but because of the pandemic Groshans hasn’t taken an at-bat in an actual game since May 2019. Groshans did spend the summer at the Jays’ alternate site, facing a lot of pitchers who had appeared in the big leagues or were close to doing so, which is better than no experience but doesn’t give us much new information, such as whether he’s still rotating his hips early and cutting off some of his potential power. He does have a great swing path and has shown an ability to make some adjustments in the limited experience he has in pro ball. I’d just like to see him produce over a longer period against better pitching now.
7. Gabriel Moreno, C
Moreno spent the summer at the Jays’ alternate site and hit well even though he was just 20 years old and had no experience above low A going into the year, then went back to his native Venezuela and hit .373/.471/.508 in 18 games for Lara, with 11 walks and just six strikeouts. He has an above-average arm and is athletic, needing work on the other defensive aspects of catching, but got some of that experience in 2020 when most prospects got little to none. I’m in.
8. Simeon Woods Richardson, RHP
Woods Richardson came with Anthony Kay in the Marcus Stroman trade and impressed the Blue Jays in spring training 2.0 and at the alternate site. His stuff has backed up slightly since high school, with a solid-average fastball and above-average changeup, along with very good control. His arm is extremely late relative to when his front leg lands and he hasn’t shown an average breaking ball yet, so he has several obstacles ahead of him to reach his mid-rotation ceiling.
9. Miguel Hiraldo, SS/2B
Hiraldo has good hand-eye coordination with high contact rates even though he can collapse his back side by overswinging, which you’d associate with power hitters who strike out all the time. The Jays have worked on getting his swing more consistent and worked on his physique so he might stay at short, although he projects as a more likely second baseman who hits for average and doubles power.
10. CJ Van Eyk, RHP
Van Eyk might have ended up in the first round had there been a full spring in 2020; he looked great in preseason and in his first outing, was up and down for three outings after that, then the world ended before he could prove the early version was real. He was 91-95 mph with a nearly 12/6 curveball that was plus when he was at his best and a hard changeup. I didn’t love the cutoff in his delivery, which limited his ability to go to his glove side, but the Jays can probably get him more online to the plate. He has a good chance to be a No. 4 starter, with a ceiling a tick above that.
BlueForever75
Registered User
- Oct 4, 2017
- 5,691
- 2,303
Actually its not considering they havent really played pro ball and are already ranked in the top 100 prospects in all of baseball.
They are our top 2 position prospects for a reason. You do not deal them unless your getting a young player at their level in a position of need. If you getting a top 100 pitcher back you think about it. If your getting a young controllable arm that is already in MLB. You consider it.
But your not making a trade like Loaiza back in the day. Hendricks or Gray are not worth it. Castillo on the other hand is. But with that being said, I can see the Jays pushing players like Biggio and Gurriel prior to Groshans or Martin.
I would be impressed if he was trying to acquire Kirk and Moreno when he was with the Jays!
$11 million... and one penny.
phillipmike
Registered User
- Oct 27, 2009
- 12,983
- 9,186
phillipmike
Registered User
- Oct 27, 2009
- 12,983
- 9,186
SDig14
Registered User
Anthrax442
Registered User
Blue Jays still considering Dunedin for home games - Tampa Bay Times
With the NBA’s Raptors announcing Thursday they will remain in Tampa to finish their season, the Blue Jays are still finalizing plans for where they will open theirs.
Coronavirus travel restrictions have and for the immediate future continue to prohibit the teams from playing in Canada, so the Tampa Bay area may become the interim host for another Toronto team.
The Jays’ most workable option to start the major-league season in April still appears to be staying to play in Dunedin, where they have spring training, in recently upgraded facilities. The team has already had at least preliminary talks with Dunedin officials about doing so.
The Jays’ other option appears to be returning to Buffalo, the site of their Triple-A team, where they played most of their home games last season.
But that was starting in August and with no scheduling conflicts, since the minor-league season was canceled. The Triple-A Bison are expected to be playing this year starting sometime in April when, by the way, average temperatures in Buffalo are in the 40s.
Blue Jays officials have said they are hoping to return to Toronto at some point during the season but are working on other options.
“We have contingency plans that we’ve worked on and we will have timelines that we communicate with our players and feel good about our alternatives, feel good about the contingencies,” general manager Ross Atkins said last week on a media Zoom call. “But can’t wait for that day that we’re playing in Toronto again.”
The Jays will need approval from Major League Baseball and the players union to make the shift. They do have a Class A team slated to play at TD Ballpark, but when there is a conflict the minor-league team could play at the nearby training facility.
The Jays are currently scheduled for their home opener on April 8, with a four-game series against Joe Maddon’s Angels followed by a visit from the Yankees. The next homestands are April 27-May 2 against the Nationals and Braves, and May 14-24 against the Phillies, Red Sox and Rays.
BlueForever75
Registered User
- Oct 4, 2017
- 5,691
- 2,303
Raptors just announced as well that they too will be playing entire season in Tampa Bay. Doesnt seem like this pandemic is going to allow for any sports once again to be played in Toronto.
phillipmike
Registered User
- Oct 27, 2009
- 12,983
- 9,186
phillipmike
Registered User
- Oct 27, 2009
- 12,983
- 9,186
Scott Mitchell was on Overdrive and said when talking to his sources, they said Gabriel Moreno is the best hitter in the system. Says he wouldnt be surprised to see Moreno as the #1 prospect on next year's list. Moreno's hitting ability caught the eye of Bichette at the alternate site, Bo asked "who is this guy?" when Moreno was hitting.
Mitchell said Moreno and SWR have the biggest impact of the prospect group. After full seasons in the minors; Moreno and SWR could be 1 and 2 on next years list.
Mitchell said Moreno and SWR have the biggest impact of the prospect group. After full seasons in the minors; Moreno and SWR could be 1 and 2 on next years list.
Cloned
Begging for Bega
- Aug 25, 2003
- 82,414
- 73,608
I am surprised he isn't higher on lists. He is a catcher that can hit extremely well and play solid defense.
I am so glad the Jays use the IFA market well. I was a bit too young but I remember JP not signing any players from there.
Canada4Gold
Registered User
- Dec 22, 2010
- 43,235
- 9,426
*Insert they got nothing for stars Sanchez and Biagini complaining here*
Not surprised Fisher was DFA'd
Not surprised Fisher was DFA'd
Fisher was a reasonable gamble at the time.
If he doesn’t get claimed, he’ll probably mash in AAA.
phillipmike
Registered User
- Oct 27, 2009
- 12,983
- 9,186
It’s a strange one imo. I take Fisher over Davis and Palacios and even the new guy Payamps.
No way those 3 guys stay on the 40 man. More moves should happen.
No way those 3 guys stay on the 40 man. More moves should happen.
Last edited:
- Status
Latest posts
-
GDT: 2025 Trade Deadline | Y’all Got Anymore of Them Trades?- Latest: Pierce Hawthorne
-
