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Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Pt IV | Ah the waiting game sucks, let's play Hungry Hungry Hippos

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stickty111 said:
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What I dont get is if that is the sticking point why havent the Jays made public yet that the Buffalo Bisons are actually playing in Buffalo this coming season unlike last. This would put an end to Toronto playing there because it would be difficult to co-exist.

They should be telling prospective FA that they will be playing in Florida until Toronto opens up beginning of summer. That would be a pro for FA as they dont need to travel from spring training complex to home city. They get to stay put until pandemic boils over.
 
BlueForever75 said:
What I dont get is if that is the sticking point why havent the Jays made public yet that the Buffalo Bisons are actually playing in Buffalo this coming season unlike last. This would put an end to Toronto playing there because it would be difficult to co-exist.

They should be telling prospective FA that they will be playing in Florida until Toronto opens up beginning of summer. That would be a pro for FA as they dont need to travel from spring training complex to home city. They get to stay put until pandemic boils over.
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If they know where they're playing, then they're definitely telling prospective free agents. They don't have to make that information public in order to do so.
 
Really the Jays have to be the least desirable team by a mile when it comes to signing players on one year deals at this point.

I don't see it affecting guys like Springer etc but will be rough for the reliever market.
 
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Discoverer said:
If they know where they're playing, then they're definitely telling prospective free agents. They don't have to make that information public in order to do so.
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Yeah, player agents aren't getting their information from Jon Heyman's tweets.
 
So are free agents being told that they possibly may play in Buffalo? It makes no sense. Everything I have been reading is that they will start at their Spring Training facility that has been revamped. And then moving to Toronto when the opportunity arises.

So why are people still reporting that Buffalo is an option?
 


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MLB insider Jon Morosi joins Lead Off to discuss why he thinks the Blue Jays and Cubs are good trade partners for Kris Bryant, but why he can’t see him signing a long term extension in Toronto.
 
TheBeastCoast said:
Feel like our offer will have to be significantly ahead of the Mets for him to come here. Hopefully it is.
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Not that I don't want him here, because I really do, but if the Mets are still in this we should accept that he is not coming here. The reality is the Mets can offer him a number that works for him and they can stay within the tax (kinda like a discount) obviously not a massive one but let's say 10 million less helps the Mets and he is still satisfied... done. We on the other hand have to pay not only what he wants but tack on an extra year and prob 25 million (which I would still do) but maybe the team doesn't.

It's time to move onto another plan.
 
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The issue with the Mets isn't whether or not they can fit Springer under the luxury tax in 2021. It's going forward that they have to make a decision. They already have more than $70 million committed towards the luxury tax for five players in 2022. If they add Springer, they're just shy of $100 million for six players with most of their other good players hitting free agency (Lindor, Stroman, Syndergaard, Conforto) and a handful starting to get more expensive through arbitration.

So they can either:

A) Sign Springer and commit to blowing past the luxury tax starting in 2022;
B) Sign Springer and accept that at least a couple of core pieces are leaving after this season;
C) Fill existing holes with cheaper, shorter-term options.

Unless Cohen is really willing to do option A for multiple years (which I'm not convinced of at all), I'm guessing they go with C.
 
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Discoverer said:
The issue with the Mets isn't whether or not they can fit Springer under the luxury tax in 2021. It's going forward that they have to make a decision. They already have more than $70 million committed towards the luxury tax for five players in 2022. If they add Springer, they're just shy of $100 million for six players with most of their other good players hitting free agency (Lindor, Stroman, Syndergaard, Conforto) and a handful starting to get more expensive through arbitration.

So they can either:

A) Sign Springer and commit to blowing past the luxury tax starting in 2022;
B) Sign Springer and accept that at least a couple of core pieces are leaving after this season;
C) Fill existing holes with cheaper, shorter-term options.

Unless Cohen is really willing to do option A for multiple years (which I'm not convinced of at all), I'm guessing they go with C.
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I just dont see it. I honestly believe Toronto's offer will be the highest, at that point its up to Springer to accept it or accept much lower then market value.

They will definitely pay Lindor based on what they gave up to get him. As for Syndergaard and Stroman, their pitching will be sorely lacking if they dont re-sign them. Both will garner more then 20 million a season.
 
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Other perspectives on the Mets signing Springer;

The Mets can only offer George around 21/year without going over luxury. If they do get Springer they can’t address any bullpen needs. The Jays are going to have to outbid for sure, I’m hoping somewhere from 23-26 mill/year gets it done for us.
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The Mets payroll and luxury tax amounts are seeing a huge benefit this year with Cano's pay being forfeited due to PED charges. If the Mets intend to extend Lindor AND sign Springer, that would have them with 4 players earning over 20 million in 2022 and 2023 (Degrom@$37.5M, Cano@$24M, Lindor@$25M+?, and Springer @$20M+?). Even if they're happy to go over the lux tax amount, adding a Springer and Lindor contract would pose a real challenge for them for the next couple of years. They'll need to extend/replace Stroman & Syndegard, they'll continue to see arb increases for other players, and they'll need space to fill gaps that develop due to injury & free agency.
At the end of the day, no one knows what the Mets will do, but you have to be hopeful for our chances.
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Basically if they want to invest in Springer then they are likely losing their number 2 and 3 starters in Syndergaard and Stroman next season. Do they sacrifice pitching depth to land a luxury in Springer when they already have Nimmo, Conforto and Davis in the OF? All three of those players were 1-2-3 in position player WAR for them last season.

Mets are better off going for a defense first CF like Pillar, Bradley or bringing back Marisnick. And spreading the rest on pen additions.

If they have an offer for Springer then it’s likely something around 100M or less. If they want Springer, perhaps they have to give him 6-7 years to spread the money out like the Yankees did with LeMahieu.
 
BlueForever75 said:
I just dont see it. I honestly believe Toronto's offer will be the highest, at that point its up to Springer to accept it or accept much lower then market value.

They will definitely pay Lindor based on what they gave up to get him. As for Syndergaard and Stroman, their pitching will be sorely lacking if they dont re-sign them. Both will garner more then 20 million a season.
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Stroman will wear out his welcome there. With Degrom, Syndergaard and Carrasco they don’t need Stroman anyways. Too much money for that much drama.
 
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BlueForever75 said:
So are free agents being told that they possibly may play in Buffalo? It makes no sense. Everything I have been reading is that they will start at their Spring Training facility that has been revamped. And then moving to Toronto when the opportunity arises.

So why are people still reporting that Buffalo is an option?
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My guess is that the "Buffalo" reference was a slight slip-up. For example, a reporter might be told "because of uncertainty about where the Jays will play" and just think "Toronto or Buffalo," temporarily forgetting about the Jays plans to play in Dunedin. Easy enough to happen.
 
I don't know how you would get the idea that coming out of a pandemic with extensive revenue loss that there will be less financial restrictions, but OK.
 
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Amadeus said:
It's not salesmanship I think. I mean Toronto has historically not attracted top talent but when you have a pandemic and uncertainties, it's a tough sell for anyone.
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I agree. After Gillick, barely any of our GMs could land top FA talent.

Ash: Clemens
Riccardi: Burnett and Ryan (Frank Thomas?)
Anthopoulos: Martin
Shapiro: Ryu

This isn’t a FO thing, this is a Toronto thing. The Raptors have this problem and same with the Leafs. Only until they had a team with ridiculous talent is when Tavares came. Before Tavares we probably had a 20 year gap with CuJo.

Raptors: Demarre Carroll
Leafs: Tavares and maybe Marleau.

Even if you look at the other mid tier guys like Jason Blake, Kubina, Komisarek etc. We had to take soft deals to get rid of them after they accomplished nothing with us.

the last three major signings in Toronto with the exception of Tavares, we had to pay large amounts of money to get rid of Martin or attach a first round pick to get rid of Carroll or Marleau.

Not having a home and the pandemic is a huge problem for the Jays.

This is fine for me, I’m not overpaying for these guys. Just go for the mid tier guys and regroup next off season. Best way is to develop your own talent and re-sign them. Eventually top free agents will want to come like they did in 92 and 93.
 
The issue we need to overcome as an organization is paying top talent more than others. It seems front offices are dead set on market value not taking into consideration that the market is different for Toronto. We have to pay more for free agents to come and they will come. Molitor, Winfield, Morris, Stewart, Clemens, Burnett, Ryan, Thomas, Martin they all came with front offices having to offer more for their services. But if your stuck on market value and your offering in around the same as other teams they will not come.

Springer wants 150 million. You know the Mets cannot go higher then 120-125 million but your offering 110 million over 5 years. Bump it up to 120 and you have a case. Same as LeMahieu, you offered 78 million, would 85 million have made that big of a difference to the Jays being so much lower then tax threshold?

Sorry I blame the front office only for the simple reason that they think market value includes them. It doesnt, but they fail to learn and this is why we have the issues we do luring them to Toronto. Once players come here they love it. Buerhle, Price, Tulo, Bautista, EE, Martin, Morris, Molitor, Winfield etc. etc.

Stop being penny pinchers and players will come like they did in the early 90's. Prove to agents and their players that you are serious. Thats when they will come.
 
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TheBeastCoast said:
Kinda sounds like Springer just does not want to sign here to me.
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Well he has not signed with the Mets either. Maybe he won't get the money he wants from teams?

I do feel that if he is forced to take less money it would be the the Mets offer, so let's offer more (within reason)
 
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