Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Madness the 12th: We don't know Dickey (about any extension. Yet)

[DJB]

And if we don't?

Well that's the huge downside and it would hurt. I do agree that an extensino would be huge and getting one for Johnson too.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-trade-buzz-rampant-blue-jays-the-frontrunner
UPDATE, 3:20 p.m.: Mike Puma, beat writer for the NY Post tweets



So to recap, Dickey, Thole and another player to Jays for d'Arnaud, Buck, Syndergaard and anotherplayer was on table this morning.

— Mike Puma (@NYPost_Mets) December 15, 2012

Sorry mods if that isn't allowed not sure. Don't spend much time on the Leafs boards.

 

[Prominence Problem]

It is a balancing act. You want to win now but you want to keep the pipeline stocked for the future. What if we trade away all our prospects and don't win, then we are set back again.

Do love the aggressiveness though. Almost two decades without postseason ball is rough, and a legit contending team would hit the spot.

I agree its a balancing act. But when its time to make your move to put yourself over-the-top, you have to go for it, and not get cold feet.

EE, Reyes, Bautistua are all prime age and we have to unleash that potential. Think if we don't do the trade, TDA is probably 2 seasons at least from being an impact player in the MLB. Thats a waste in my mind.

Our depth in the farm allows us to make this trade. IMO we would still have a top 10-15 ranked system if we move TDA & Syndengard.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Man, I don't see AA pulling the trigger without signing Dickey to an extension. That is way too risky.

 

[The Nemesis]

Well that's the huge downside and it would hurt. I do agree that an extensino would be huge and getting one for Johnson too.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-trade-buzz-rampant-blue-jays-the-frontrunner
UPDATE, 3:20 p.m.: Mike Puma, beat writer for the NY Post tweets



So to recap, Dickey, Thole and another player to Jays for d'Arnaud, Buck, Syndergaard and anotherplayer was on table this morning.

— Mike Puma (@NYPost_Mets) December 15, 2012

Sorry mods if that isn't allowed not sure. Don't spend much time on the Leafs boards.

Mike Puma is OK since he's a beat writer. Bleacher Report in and of itself isn't great because any idiot with an e-mail address can make an account and post crap there, but it works out in this case because it is coming from an original legit source.

 

[Prominence Problem]

I think at this point you can't be worried about not winning with these players. We are an elite team now. World Series is our immediate goal.

 

[stempniaksen]

I'm not as opposed to trading TDA as some are, but I don't think Dickey is the answer.

If it did go down though it better not include Syndergaard or Sanchez.

 

[91Kadri91*]

Guys that tweet is from yesterday night

One post in and you're all getting twitter trolled again

My mistake, I wasn't aware of that.

mets better include harvey or wheeler

This.

there's gotta be more
i'm hoping for something like:

d'arnaud
syndegaard (preferably sanchez)
lind
buck
for
dickey
ike davis
thole

I may be in the minority, but I would rather keep Sanchez. The kid has ridiculously high potential.

I agree its a balancing act. But when its time to make your move to put yourself over-the-top, you have to go for it, and not get cold feet.

EE, Reyes, Bautistua are all prime age and we have to unleash that potential. Think if we don't do the trade, TDA is probably 2 seasons at least from being an impact player in the MLB. Thats a waste in my mind.

Our depth in the farm allows us to make this trade. IMO we would still have a top 10-15 ranked system if we move TDA & Syndengard.

I would be absolutely shocked if d'Arnaud didn't perform better than J.P. (this season) next season, if given the opportunity to play at the big league level.

 

[DJB]

Mike Puma is OK since he's a beat writer. Bleacher Report in and of itself isn't great because any idiot with an e-mail address can make an account and post crap there, but it works out in this case because it is coming from an original legit source.

K thanks. Thought because he was a legit reported I was ok. Bleacher is terrible though.

 

[Prominence Problem]

I would be absolutely shocked if d'Arnaud didn't perform better than J.P. (this season) next season, if given the opportunity to play at the big league level.

See now I would be schocked if he DID outperform JP in his first full season. He hasn't even seen a MLB pitch yet. JP has been around, hit over 20 HR before. He was injured last year with his broken hand. I'm expecting a big bounce back year from JP.
I don't put that much stock in a raw, green rookie like TDA

 

[ryno23]

I have been most critical of AA and Rogers going out to spend money for the last 2 years and now they have done it and put the team in a great spot to compete.

However I think getting Dickey is a mistake. I don't see him coming over to the AL and his success continues. I think he is one of those guys that does well in the NL but better lineups could hit him hard.

I have been on the win now mode but you emptied your farm with the Marlins deal and you will need some younger cheaper players to step in unless you plan on moving your payroll upwards of 150 million. Gose, D'Arnaud are cheap alternatives in case Rasmus and JPA regress this year.

Do we really need another arm in the rotation? I think Burhele, Romero, Happ are bottom 3 that can pitch well and if the offense produces like it can will make up for any of those 3 sub par performances or ERA around 4.

I am just not a believer in Dickey and it will be one of those moves that you look back and say yeah he was a Cy Young pitcher in the NL but got lit up in the AL.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

They said Kuroda would get mashed in the AL east. He didn't. Every single damn time a pitcher moves from the NL to the AL everyone collectively craps their pants.

 

[Sokil]

They said Kuroda would get mashed in the AL east. He didn't. Every single damn time a pitcher moves from the NL to the AL everyone collectively craps their pants.

AJ Burnett and Josh Beckett. Same story.

 

[MrLegend28*]

I love how people expect Dickey to do bad, as if theres some magical potion in the AL that makes the Knuckler more hittable. Its insane randomness is why its so effective (and why were getting a catcher back in the deal)

Dickey would be fine in any division as long as he keeps throwing a hard knuckle.

 

[91Kadri91*]

See now I would be schocked if he DID outperform JP in his first full season. He hasn't even seen a MLB pitch yet. JP has been around, hit over 20 HR before. He was injured last year with his broken hand. I'm expecting a big bounce back year from JP.
I don't put that much stock in a raw, green rookie like TDA

20 HR's! Wow!

Seriously though, J.P. has amassed 2 WAR over 242 games (1.3 WAR in 102 games last year). He has a career wRC+ of 89, and his defense is well, well below-average. He's been a below-average catcher to this point. That's all there is to it.

To put things into perspective, Yasmani Grandal, a catching prospect that was San Diego acquired in the Mat Latos deal, had a 2.6 WAR over 60 games this season. D'Arnaud was always considered to be the better prospect of the two, and it would shock no one to see d'Arnaud perform better than Grandal.

Even if d'Arnaud doesn't outperform Grandal, it's not like he has to be great to outperform what Arencibia did last year. In fact, he doesn't even have to be above-average.

 

[Prominence Problem]

Dickey's 3 starts last year vs AL East

Jun 13 @ TB - 9 IP, 1 H , 1R, 0 BB, 12 K
Jun 18 Bal - 9 IP, 1H, 0 R, 2 BB, 13 K
Jun 24 NYY - 6 IP, 5 H, 5 R, 3 BB, 3 K

 

[Cor]

I know this may not mean much to some, but hasn't AA earned our trust? How about we wait until the trade is complete before bashing him

 

[JAMmer124]

I love how people expect Dickey to do bad, as if theres some magical potion in the AL that makes the Knuckler more hittable. Its insane randomness is why its so effective (and why were getting a catcher back in the deal)

Dickey would be fine in any division as long as he keeps throwing a hard knuckle.

He's got a hard and a soft knuckle. One in the sixties I believe, another around 80. That would seriously mess people up.

Tim Wakefield survived how long in the AL East? And that was when the Yanks were the most feared team in baseball. Dickey wouldn't even have to face the best hitting team in the division, because I believe that's us.

Getting Dickey puts us in the Angels/Tigers class. Actually would make the three of us incredibly even. Potential Cy Young winners (Weaver, Verlander, Dickey), scary good 3/4 hitters (Cabrera/Fielder, Pujols/Hamilton, Bautista/Encarnacion) and good depth all over the place.

 

[rojac]

20 HR's! Wow!

Seriously though, J.P. has amassed 2 WAR over 242 games (1.3 WAR in 102 games last year). He has a career wRC+ of 89, and his defense is well, well below-average. He's been a below-average catcher to this point. That's all there is to it.

To put things into perspective, Yasmani Grandal, a catching prospect that was San Diego acquired in the Mat Latos deal, had a 2.6 WAR over 60 games this season. D'Arnaud was always considered to be the better prospect of the two, and it would shock no one to see d'Arnaud perform better than Grandal.

Even if d'Arnaud doesn't outperform Grandal, it's not like he has to be great to outperform Arencibia. In fact, he doesn't even have to be above-average.

Obviously, though, if AA is willing to trade D'Arnaud to get Dickey, then he thinks he can having a willing ball club with JPA behind the plate. For now, that's good enough for me.

 

[trellaine201]

Is twitter lagging? I havent received any tweets from any source for an hour.

Thanks

 

[Suntouchable13]

Thanks to AA and the entire Jays brass for keeping my mind off the lockout and how terrible the Raptors are.

 

[calcal798]

He's got a hard and a soft knuckle. One in the sixties I believe, another around 80. That would seriously mess people up.

Tim Wakefield survived how long in the AL East? And that was when the Yanks were the most feared team in baseball. Dickey wouldn't even have to face the best hitting team in the division, because I believe that's us.

Getting Dickey puts us in the Angels/Tigers class. Actually would make the three of us incredibly even. Potential Cy Young winners (Greinke, Verlander, Dickey), scary good 3/4 hitters (Cabrera/Fielder, Pujols/Hamilton, Bautista/Encarnacion) and good depth all over the place.

Greinke plays for the Dodgers now.

But otherwise it would be a good match up, I do think losing Greinke dropped them back in the race.

 

[Canada4Gold]

This deal is taking so long, I figured when I woke up this morning it'd be pretty much done already. It's better the way AA usually runs things, where nobody(looking at the Mets here) leaks info. The Marlins trade while it took 5 days to officially be done, we basically knew the entire trade within 2 hours of the first information being leaked. Waiting in anticipation for days is frustrating

 

[Sokil]

I know this may not mean much to some, but hasn't AA earned our trust? How about we wait until the trade is complete before bashing him

I trust him. He got these prospects in the first place, who better than he to gage their value? We all have some emotional attachment to prospects, but can you imagine the GM who acquired them in the first place? They're probably like extended family

 

[JAMmer124]

Greinke plays for the Dodgers now.

But otherwise it would be a good match up, I do think losing Greinke dropped them back in the race.

Riiight. Wrong LA team lol.

 

[Tony Romo]

He's got a hard and a soft knuckle. One in the sixties I believe, another around 80. That would seriously mess people up.

Tim Wakefield survived how long in the AL East? And that was when the Yanks were the most feared team in baseball. Dickey wouldn't even have to face the best hitting team in the division, because I believe that's us.

Getting Dickey puts us in the Angels/Tigers class. Actually would make the three of us incredibly even. Potential Cy Young winners (Greinke, Verlander, Dickey), scary good 3/4 hitters (Cabrera/Fielder, Pujols/Hamilton, Bautista/Encarnacion) and good depth all over the place.

for the angels I think you mean Weaver