Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season IV: Off-season progression! (Lockout over: Jays acquire Chapman for 4 prospects!)

[chaosrevolver]

I am not seeing anything on Twitter. Where'd you see this?

I'm assuming it's a prediction. Got me excited tho.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Haven’t looked at Kyles defensive stats but man I’ve seen him play terrible defense.

He's not a good defender. The bat more than makes up for it though, especially if he hits like he did with Boston last year.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Da Cool Rula]

Cincinnati Reds (if they’re willing to live with redundancy at first base for Freeman, why not rescue Joey Votto if taking his money helps land Luis Castillo or Tyler Mahle?).

 

[phillipmike]

 

[canucksfan]

MLB needs to somehow make FA like this all the time. I am frequently checking MLB news because I know there's a good chance something will happen.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Freeman, Schwarber linked to Blue Jays as speculation heats up - Sportsnet.ca

The Blue Jays, according to an industry source, have been poking around on Freeman all off-season and some of their players have discussed how well he’d fit among them. The club’s also been hot on the trail of another free-agent lefty slugger, Kyle Schwarber, as Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic first reported Sunday night, and they’ve been ambitious enough to consider the possibility of adding both, although other moves would be needed to make it work.

As teams clear through a winter-frenzy level transaction logjam created by the lockout, the Blue Jays have been busily weighing a host of different opportunities available to them. The $36-million, three-year deal for left-hander Yusei Kikcuhi completed Monday was a beginning rather than end, as they weigh relief options as up-market as Kenley Jansen, infield possibilities such as Jonathan Villar and moves far more transformative.

“They’ve got a lot going,” said another industry source.

The Blue Jays did plenty of work on trades before the lockout and many of the blockbusters completed in recent days are no doubt the by-product of talks that date back to before the shutdown.

While to this point they’ve focused on free agency, the Blue Jays have the prospect depth to get in on the sell-offs currently being conducted by the Athletics (the only thing keeping third baseman Matt Chapman from being perfect is that he bats right-handed) and Cincinnati Reds (if they’re willing to live with redundancy at first base for Freeman, why not rescue Joey Votto if taking his money helps land Luis Castillo or Tyler Mahle?).

They have surely tried again to pry Jose Ramirez from the Cleveland Guardians, as they did last trade deadline, although that may very well require big-league pieces.

Ultimately, it comes down to which slate of moves they can pull off.

 

[The Nemesis]

Haven’t looked at Kyles defensive stats but man I’ve seen him play terrible defense.

The numbers agree. He played 75 innings of atrocious 1st base last season in Boston, and hasn't been a positive contributor in LF since 2018. He would almost certainly be a regular DH and occasional "please don't hit it over here" defender on days where you need a lefty bat in the lineup but have to give someone else the half-day off.

Fit wise he probably makes slightly more sense than Freeman, but that's more than mitigated by Freeman being a more reliable, durable, and better offensive player who at least has a defensive position he's good at (even if it is redundant to how the Jays are constructed)

 

[phillipmike]

 

[The Nemesis]

Given the price paid for Olsen and the likelihood that the A's wouldn't sell him off and accept anything significantly less than that for a far more buzzworthy player I don't see how the Jays can stay in the Chapman race. That'd be a stupid crazy expenditure of assets to have a guy for a year on the hope that you can pull a Berrios and convince him to stick around.

Based on Keith Law's rankings on The Athletic, the package was the A's 1st, 3rd, 5th, and 15th rated prospects, with the top two guys coming in at 38th and 80th on the Athletic top 100.

Comparatively the Jays, assuming Moreno is non-negotiably off the table, would cobble together a similar offer of:

Orelvis (2nd on Jays, 44th in MLB)
one of Smith (3rd/89th though I have my doubts Keith is in the majority on this ranking) or Groshans (4th/99th more likely)
Hoglund (5th/NR)
and then to account for the higher end of the deal being slightly lesser prospects and not pitchers like it seems the A's wanted, probably a couple of arms out of a batch of mid-ranking pitchers like Robberse, Tiedmann, van Eyk, Pardihno, Kloffenstein, or maybe Irv Carter as a higher-value dark horse.

and that's just as a comparable starting point. I imagine the Chapman ask would be higher. Moreno, Groshans, Hoglund, Robberse, Carter? No thank you.

 

[phillipmike]

 

[Blitzkrug]

Haven’t looked at Kyles defensive stats but man I’ve seen him play terrible defense.

That's what the DH is for

 

[The Nemesis]

I don't quite understand how or why Carlos Baerga became some sort of rumor maven. He's not an agent, not a media personality, not some plugged in talking head who is demonstrably always in the know. He's just a former player who had like 4 good years at the start of his career and then spent the next decade after that coasting on his rep while being kind of shockingly underwhelming given how easily he remained employed.

 

[Discoverer]

Given the price paid for Olsen and the likelihood that the A's wouldn't sell him off and accept anything significantly less than that for a far more buzzworthy player I don't see how the Jays can stay in the Chapman race. That'd be a stupid crazy expenditure of assets to have a guy for a year on the hope that you can pull a Berrios and convince him to stick around.

Based on Keith Law's rankings on The Athletic, the package was the A's 1st, 3rd, 5th, and 15th rated prospects, with the top two guys coming in at 38th and 80th on the Athletic top 100.

Comparatively the Jays, assuming Moreno is non-negotiably off the table, would cobble together a similar offer of:

Orelvis (2nd on Jays, 44th in MLB)
one of Smith (3rd/89th though I have my doubts Keith is in the majority on this ranking) or Groshans (4th/99th more likely)
Hoglund (5th/NR)
and then to account for the higher end of the deal being slightly lesser prospects and not pitchers like it seems the A's wanted, probably a couple of arms out of a batch of mid-ranking pitchers like Robberse, Tiedmann, van Eyk, Pardihno, Kloffenstein, or maybe Irv Carter as a higher-value dark horse.

and that's just as a comparable starting point. I imagine the Chapman ask would be higher. Moreno, Groshans, Hoglund, Robberse, Carter? No thank you.

Why would the ask on Chapman be higher? I don't think "buzzworthy" has nearly as much impact as it used to.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[landy92mack29]

not a fan of Schwarber so really hope it's Freeman...plus love Freeman and the leadership role he'd fill when Semien left

 

[Cloned]

I don't quite understand how or why Carlos Baerga became some sort of rumor maven. He's not an agent, not a media personality, not some plugged in talking head who is demonstrably always in the know. He's just a former player who had like 4 good years at the start of his career and then spent the next decade after that coasting on his rep while being kind of shockingly underwhelming given how easily he remained employed.

Probably has connections through agents and potentially friendships with current players.

 

[Dr.Funk]

not a fan of Schwarber so really hope it's Freeman...plus love Freeman and the leadership role he'd fill when Semien left

Agreed on Schwarber and as a big fan of Freeman I don't want him either. I want Vlad full time at 1st and I want to leave the DH spot open as a rotating spot.

 

[Leafin]

I’d be ok with Schwarber but would really prefer someone that can defend a bit. At least one position.

 

[Cloned]

Freeman would be great. It'd make up for that time we signed Corey Koskie.

 

[trellaine201]

definitely need a big left handed bat.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Agreed on Schwarber and as a big fan of Freeman I don't want him either. I want Vlad full time at 1st and I want to leave the DH spot open as a rotating spot.

That's where I'm torn on both .. I really like a strong defensive team. While adding some firepower in the offense would be great, hurting the team defense kinda taints it.

I mean Freeman is one of my fave non-Jay players but having Vladdy get 3B regularity makes me uneasy

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Even if Shatkins gets Freeman and/or Schwarber, I'd still like them to go after Marte. He checks off a lot of boxes.

 

[LeafChief]

 

[kb]