Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season Edition II - Winter Meeting Madness

[phillipmike]

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Which New York staff is No. 1? Way-too-early 2023 MLB starting rotation rankings

The Yanks' and Mets' rotations take two of the top three spots on our pre-spring training list. Where did they land -- and did another team sneak past one of 'em?

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8. Toronto Blue Jays​

Game score W/L: 95-67, .586

Average game score: 54.4

Dominance rank: 4 | Consistency rank: 3

Gems: 43 | Eggs: 21

Rotation: Alek Manoah (22-8), Kevin Gausman (23-9), Chris Bassitt (22-10), Jose Berrios (13-14), Yusei Kikuchi (7-11), Nate Pearson (5-6), Mitch White (2-5), Hyun Jin Ryu (3-4)

The addition of Bassitt gives the Blue Jays a strong core trio with three potential 20-game winners (well, "game score" winners, anyway, but I love the old-timey nomenclature). There are questions with some possible exciting answers even after Manoah, Gausman and Bassitt. Can Berrios get back on track? Can Ryu return by midseason, as he says he wants to do? This rotation has a chance to not just be good, but to be really, really deep.

3 teams that just made big defensive upgrades

With all the 2023 rule changes we’re about to see, there’s been a common theme: More action. More balls in play, more quickly. If that comes to pass – and even if it doesn’t, given the presence of the shift restrictions – it’s going to put more pressure on a

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Blue Jays

Toronto’s defense wasn’t bad last year, for what it’s worth, rating 11th (Outs Above Average) and eighth (Defensive Runs Saved), and the biggest concern area won’t change, since Bo Bichette isn’t going anywhere at shortstop. (He just signed a three-year extension.) The infield as a whole was middle-of-the-pack last year, and since the infield group returns largely unchanged, it’ll probably be middle-of-the-pack again this year.

The outfield, though, has a chance to be Twins-level good. Look at last year’s Toronto outfielders, and note that the three weakest defenders (Raimel Tapia, -5 OAA; Teoscar Hernández, -4 OAA; Lourdes Gurriel Jr., -2 OAA) have all moved on. While it’s true that defensively-capable backups like Bradley Zimmer and Jackie Bradley Jr. are also gone, realize what the Blue Jays' offseason changes have meant:

In: CF Kevin Kiermaier, one of – without hyperbole – the greatest defensive outfielders who ever lived. Dating back to 2016, he is the No. 1 defensive outfielder as tracked by Statcast, even though he’s missed considerable time due to injury.

In: OF/C Daulton Varsho, who, in 2022, rated as Statcast’s No. 1 defensive outfielder, in part because his reactions are so elite that he makes everything look easy.

Moved: CF George Springer to right field, not because he couldn’t handle center, but because his increasing age and health concerns made it wise to do so – and because Kiermaier is better. Having a center-field-quality defender in a corner, as your third-best glove, is a nice way to set up your outfield.

Throw in the fact that utilityman Whit Merrifield can play competent defense at multiple outfield spots, and Toronto has suddenly made for a massive upgrade in outfield defense. If that's what's behind an adequate-if-not-spectacular infield group, then the Jays pitchers are going to have plenty to be happy about.

These 10 teams won the offseason

Let’s embark upon an annual tradition by puckering up our lips and applying the kiss of death. That’s right. It’s time to name the Winter Winners! You know how this so often goes. A team wins the winter and loses the season. That’s of course not always the case, but

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5. Blue Jays
To be clear, the big trade the Blue Jays and D-backs made feels like a win for both clubs. But because Arizona’s return is centered on catching prospect Gabriel Moreno, the Blue Jays’ end more clearly and immediately improves the Major League club and, combined with the rest of their activity, lands them on this list.
Toronto had a rare catching excess and a glaring need to balance the lineup, so bringing in the left-handed-hitting Daulton Varsho was a really nice score.

This team also had DH/first base at-bats to offer, and the capable veteran (and, yes, left-handed) bat of Brandon Belt is a good get. We know this lineup can put up runs aplenty (especially with Rogers Centre’s new dimensions), but run prevention was another emphasis of the offseason. The Blue Jays addressed it by significantly lengthening their rotation with Bassitt, as well as adding the elite center-field glove of Kevin Kiermaier and landing late-inning reliever Erik Swanson.

Parting with Teoscar Hernández softens the enthusiasm for the Blue Jays’ winter slightly, and you’d like to see them go into the season with clearer answers in the back of the rotation, but the improved balance and defense make this feel like a more stable squad than it was before.

 

[canucksfan]

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Hoverhand]

All Quiet on the Robbie Grossman Front so far, hoping bk comes through here.

 

[Ale Brew]

Extra innings ghost runner rule is here to stay.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[BertCorbeau]

I hate it

 

[Morgs]

Position players pitching is so lame, why are you making specific rules about it to police it... Just end the f***ing game.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

The runner on 2nd rule in extra innings is an even worse premise than the NHL shootout. Just plop a guy on 2nd as if someone artificially hit a leadoff double.

All for curbing the position players pitching. There was a certain charm to it when back in the day a position player would pitch one inning in a blue moon. Now teams utilize it frequently, almost to the extent that I think it is making a mockery of the game.

Rob Manfred has really destroyed the beauty of baseball.

 

[Eyedea]

The runner on 2nd rule in extra innings is an even worse premise than the NHL shootout. Just plop a guy on 2nd as if someone artificially hit a leadoff double.

All for curbing the position players pitching. There was a certain charm to it when back in the day a position player would pitch one inning in a blue moon. Now teams utilize it frequently, almost to the extent that I think it is making a mockery of the game.

Rob Manfred has really destroyed the beauty of baseball.

I don't know. I feel like if you allow games to be played in extra innings as they once were, you're also going to have to allow teams to use those position players to pitch if needed. Like how the Jays lost that 19 inning game to Cleveland because they had to put in Barney. I'd rather they just speed up extra innings to allow teams to utilize their staff more consistently.

Runner on 2nd might not be the best choice, but I'm not sure what other way they could do it. You argue it's more gimmicky than the NHL shootout, but what about 3on3 hockey? I can't imagine MLB cutting down to 5 fielders once extras hit.

 

[BertCorbeau]

With changes in the shift rules, I could get behind starting a runner at 1st in extras. Wouldn't be as fast as the runner on 2nd but it would help move the game along quicker. The shift rules should also help get more balls in play which can advance the runner. A lot more 1st to 3rd type plays.

 

[Morgs]

2nd base for extra innings is fine imo. Can't have a sudden death type of scenario where 1st run wins, and taking away fielders although hilarious would kill the spirit even more with how tacky it would be with bunts and shit. Lol picture it now: 8 fielders in the 10th, 7 in the 11th, etc. I'd love to see it tried just for fun.

I don't love the rule mostly because i wish there was something better, but there really isn't any alternative that just gets the game over with fairly besides ties- which sucks even more.

 

[theaub]

Just end games in ties lol

 

[Discoverer]

Just end games in ties lol

Ew

 

[phillipmike]

 

[Canada4Gold]

I really would prefer 2 innings of regular extra innings first, then a runner on 1st for the next 2 before we put a runner on 2nd

 

[canucksfan]

I really like the runner at 2nd in extra innings. Ends the game earlier. I wouldn't want it in the playoffs though.

 

[red devil]

 

[canucksfan]

 

[Gilmour1996]

I think Bo should hire himself a valet. Not a very flattering outfit for TSN's front page!

 

[theaub]

PECOTA standings (generally worthless but whatever) are out

PECOTA Standings from Baseball Prospectus

www.baseballprospectus.com

Has Jays as 3rd best team in AL. I refuse to believe the Yankees are a 100 win baseball team with a pitching staff that's almost a third of a run per game better than anyone else in the league but what do I know.

 

[Hoverhand]

PECOTA standings (generally worthless but whatever) are out

PECOTA Standings from Baseball Prospectus

www.baseballprospectus.com

Has Jays as 3rd best team in AL. I refuse to believe the Yankees are a 100 win baseball team with a pitching staff that's almost a third of a run per game better than anyone else in the league but what do I know.

I feel like I'm going insane. That pitching staff is riddled with injury history and they're expected to carry an offence that is absolutely going to regress next year. The entirety of baseball media still seemingly projects them as a juggernaut. They have a glut of position players that had a wRC+ below 100 last year, They didn't even retain Benintendi, how much are they relying on their rookies to produce? Way too many question marks to give them triple digits.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Jays are not picked to win the division? Man, I don’t want to go through the wildcard again. I do believe that this year the race will be much closer than it was last year at least.

 

[Eyedea]

Yanks will be really good with that rotation + depth, Rays will sneak up as usual. In a vacuum 13 games against each divisional opponent doesn't seem like much anymore, but it makes them that much more critical to win in order to stay in the race or create a gap/space.

Jays are not picked to win the division? Man, I don’t want to go through the wildcard again. I do believe that this year the race will be much closer than it was last year at least.

On the bright side, Jays 2nd half additions like Ryu and Green could be real boons for their playoff potential. I'm also hopeful that Pearson or Zulu could make an impact in the pen down the stretch.

 

[ER89]

2nd base for extra innings is fine imo. Can't have a sudden death type of scenario where 1st run wins, and taking away fielders although hilarious would kill the spirit even more with how tacky it would be with bunts and shit. Lol picture it now: 8 fielders in the 10th, 7 in the 11th, etc. I'd love to see it tried just for fun.

I don't love the rule mostly because i wish there was something better, but there really isn't any alternative that just gets the game over with fairly besides ties- which sucks even more.

i say we do a best of 5 home run derby.

(We have vlad )