Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season Edition II - Winter Meeting Madness

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I've always had a soft spot for the tournament. Seeing career minor leaguers and lesser known prospects get a shot on national tv against big league talent to showcase themselves. I also enjoy nerding over the rosters, looking at where all the players got plucked from.
Yeah, even just seeing a few Jays minor leaguers on the rosters is kinda fun.

I probably won't watch a whole lot since Sportsnet is finally broadcasting a lot of Spring Training games this year, but more baseball is a good thing (and more competitive baseball in March is particular great.)
 
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I've always had a soft spot for the tournament. Seeing career minor leaguers and lesser known prospects get a shot on national tv against big league talent to showcase themselves. I also enjoy nerding over the rosters, looking at where all the players got plucked from.

Players playing for their nation vs spring training, is this a real question for some? Baseball does not have a best on best competition and the players (most) love participating. This would be like suggesting to cancel World Juniors so players stay in the CHL or when we actually had olympic participation, saying Crosby playing for the Pens would be better than watching the golden goal potentially happen.
 
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Its a fake best on best but you generally end up getting a couple cool games out of it.

And more importantly some S-tier swag.
 
Its a fake best on best but you generally end up getting a couple cool games out of it.

And more importantly some S-tier swag.
At least MLB, unlike the NHL, is consistently playing the tournament every four years so that over many years/decades, they can try and improve the brand and prestige of the tournament. It will never have the aura of a soccer World Cup or Olympics where you can feel the patriotism in yourself along with the majority of the country while watching the games.

But it's kind of cool seeing a lot of these players who would otherwise never play with each other come together as essentially an all-star team representing their country. Once every four years for a couple weeks -- big freakin' deal. Would rather watch those types of games in March than trying to convince myself to be vested in seeing how a borderline Triple A pitching prospect will fare in a meaningless spring training game for one inning.
 
The competition in the WBC games is going to be a hell of a lot better than a Spring Training game, and the games themselves will be way more entertaining.

I can't wait for Spring Training to start and I love watching the games, but it's mostly three innings of regulars and then a bunch of bench players, minor league vets, and A-ball prospects.
Watching them live is not meaningless. It’s the most relaxing thing I all year.
I don’t know when Vladdy will report, but I doubt I’ll get to see him this year. I sit in section 209, 3rd base side behind home and watching his at bats up close is a sight.

You’re right, early in spring after a couple of ABs the starters leave and it’s flight deck/ bullpen time, which is by far the best thing they’ve done to the stadium for the fans.
 
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Players playing for their nation vs spring training, is this a real question for some? Baseball does not have a best on best competition and the players (most) love participating. This would be like suggesting to cancel World Juniors so players stay in the CHL or when we actually had olympic participation, saying Crosby playing for the Pens would be better than watching the golden goal potentially happen.
Yes, it would. I have no interest in so-called national “teams”. I would rather have MLB (and NHL) players putting their efforts towards their real teams.
 
At least MLB, unlike the NHL, is consistently playing the tournament every four years so that over many years/decades, they can try and improve the brand and prestige of the tournament. It will never have the aura of a soccer World Cup or Olympics where you can feel the patriotism in yourself along with the majority of the country while watching the games.

But it's kind of cool seeing a lot of these players who would otherwise never play with each other come together as essentially an all-star team representing their country. Once every four years for a couple weeks -- big freakin' deal. Would rather watch those types of games in March than trying to convince myself to be vested in seeing how a borderline Triple A pitching prospect will fare in a meaningless spring training game for one inning.
I’m not a big one for patriotism and nationalism. I can kind of get into it for it for the Olympics (mainly just to have a rooting interest) when the athletes have no other affiliation in my mind. But even then, I have to ignore the fact that many of the so-called Canadian athletes do not live or train in Canada.

Anyway, it’s just a quirk with me. I associate athletes in the sports I follow much more strongly with their professional team than I do with their nationality. In fact, I wonder if I would have enjoyed the 1972 Summit Series as much if a non-Leaf had scored the series-winning goal.

Also, I find these international tourneys to be too short to mean much of anything. Not to mention that they lack all the fun of the long-term process of building and maintaining a team that I enjoy as much as athletes actually playing the game. Basically, international tourneys lack a lot of what I enjoy and feel like only half a game to me.

Now if they did an all-star tourney where 8 teams were drafted from all MLB teams and teams could make trades pre-tourney. That might have some interest to me.
 
So, with Spring Training starting next week, how would you rate the Jay's off-season?

My grade is B+/A-. I really like the fielding acquisitions. Belt is a good gamble, KK fills a hole and I am really high on Varsho. Still missing a lefty masher in the outfield but that can be a quick and easy fix. The bullpen will be much better to start off with compared to last year.

I would have liked a better acquisition than Bassit and the fifth starter is a concern. Berrios will be an important piece.
 
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So, with Spring Training starting next week, how would you rate the Jay's off-season?

My grade is B+/A-. I really like the fielding acquisitions. Belt is a good gamble, KK fills a hole and I am really high on Varsho. Still missing a lefty masher in the outfield but that can be a quick and easy fix. The bullpen will be much better to start off with compared to last year.

I would have liked a better acquisition than Bassit and the fifth starter is a concern. Berrios will be an important piece.

B+

Addressed the basic needs but I have concerns about the depth. Relying on White/Kikuchi as the #5 starter and not bringing in another OFer to complement KK, Varsho, Springer could be tough.

Bullpens are fickle, so I won’t be too critical of that.
 
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Couple of notable deals today.



Really love this for Miami. Bleday still has potential but time may be running out. Wouldn’t have mind either player for the Jays. Hopefully we can continue the trend of acquiring a Marlins pen arm at the deadline.



Jays were after him early in the off season but for a major league deal, they had no room.



Market may have been set for Moore, Britton and Smith. Moore may get the same or more (no pun intended) and Britton and Smith should get less.
 
Toronto Blue Jays
22nd overall
17th in quality depth (prospects better than 40 FV)
$149.5 million total value
38 players


1. Ricky Tiedemann, LHP, 55 FV (25th on the top 100)
2. Orelvis Martinez, 3B, 50 FV (67)
3. Brandon Barriera. LHP, 45+ FV (161)
4. Leo Jimenez, SS, 45+ FV (174)
5. Hayden Juenger, RHP, 45+ FV (183)
6. Tucker Toman, 3B, 45 FV
7. Addison Barger, 3B, 45 FV
8. Yosver Zulueta, RHP, 45 FV
9. Adam Macko, LHP, 45 FV
10. Sem Robberse, RHP, 45 FV
11. Cade Doughty, 3B, 40+ FV
12. Adrian Pinto, 2B, 40+ FV

40 FV (13): Enmanuel Bonilla/RF, Manuel Beltre/SS, Estiven Machado/2B, Josh Kasevich/SS, Otto Lopez/2B, Gabriel Martinez/RF, Dahian Santos/RHP, Damiano Palmegiani/3B, Alan Roden/LF, Trent Palmer/RHP, C.J. Van Eyk/RHP, Dasan Brown/CF, Alex De Jesus/3B

35+ FV (13): Irv Carter/RHP, Luis Meza/C, Rafael Ohashi/RHP, Hagen Danner/RHP, Nathan Lukes/CF, Spencer Horwitz/1B, Chad Dallas/RHP, Zach Britton/C, Kendry Rojas/LHP, Alejandro Melean/HP, Davis Schneider/3B, Tanner Morris/3B, Mason Fluharty/LHP

2023 Impact: Tiedemann
40+ FV breakout pick: Pinto
40 FV or less breakout pick: Roden

Ranked prospects beyond the top 100

Barriera drew attention before the draft due to the unique way that he approached his workload late in the spring, opting to not pitch like a running back who skips his bowl game before the NFL draft. He got even more support than I expected as a prospect when I sent around an extended top 100 this offseason, with a number of sources saying he is on their internal top 100. All four of his pitches flash plus and he shows all the starter traits at times, but some scouts worry about a relief risk.

Toman was another of my favorite players in the draft, a switch-hitting infielder with plus power and a proven bat. He got $2 million in the second round because some teams worried that he is a future corner outfielder with some hit tool risk, but I think he'll hit and stay at third base. Doughty (solid-average hit/power combo, probably a third baseman) and Kasevich (plus hitter, good approach, limited power and probably not a shortstop) were two vanilla but solid college infielders from the 2022 draft class. Barger is another solid infielder, but more like Toman as a second or third baseman who now projects for above-average power after hitting 26 homers in a breakout 2022 season. Jimenez is a solid shortstop who can really hit but has little power while Pinto, acquired from Colorado last year, is a 5-6 second baseman who also can really hit but also has very little power.

Juenger took a big step forward in 2022, throwing 98.2 innings across Double-A and Triple-A as a 21-year-old. His fastball, which he throws two-thirds of the time, sits 94-96 mph and his changeup and slider are both above average. The main question going forward is if his command will be good enough to start (I say yes). Zulueta appeared in Triple-A last season and has three above-average pitches, but his command is a notch worse so he's likely a reliever with the stuff to go multiple innings. Macko went in the seventh round in 2019 and has thrown just 95 pro innings since then due to injury. He'll flash four above-average pitches and decent control, but has below-average command. Robberse topped out in the 80s when signed out of the Netherlands in 2019 and now sits 90-92 with a deep, solid-average arsenal and the command to make a number of big league starts.

Others of note

Bonilla is my fifth-ranked prospect in the international signing period that opened last month. Most scouts say he's a slam-dunk right fielder, though Toronto thinks he has a chance to stay in center field. His bat should profile in either spot, with a shot for above-average hit and power tools and that power could possibly be plus or more at maturity. Roden is almost the exact opposite player, as a now 23-year old first baseman/left fielder with one above-average tool. But that hit tool is a 70 and his pitch selection might also be a 70, so he's a likely big leaguer who may slice through the minors with a limited upside.

Santos fits at the top of the pitchers in this range as he's still a teenager, has three above-average pitches and enough athleticism to project improvement in his command. Palmer gets good life and angle on his 91-94 mph sinker while his slider and change both flash above-average as well, but his command is a notch below average. Carter was a power prep righty who made progress in the spring of 2021 by using his athleticism to throw better strikes, eventually signing for $850,000 in the fifth round. He works 92-94 with an above average-flashing slider and changeup, but it's unclear so far what role suits him best at the upper levels

This write up makes the prospect pool sounds extremely good.
 
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Kasevich not a SS? That's the first I've heard that from anyone. I thought his D was his strength?
 
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Players playing for their nation vs spring training, is this a real question for some? Baseball does not have a best on best competition and the players (most) love participating. This would be like suggesting to cancel World Juniors so players stay in the CHL or when we actually had olympic participation, saying Crosby playing for the Pens would be better than watching the golden goal potentially happen.
People watch the WJHC and Olympic hockey. Do they even broadcast the world baseball exhibition?
 
People watch the WJHC and Olympic hockey. Do they even broadcast the world baseball exhibition?

Last time they held this tournament, they sold more than a million tickets, including a sold out Dodger Stadium for the finals (50,000+). MLB Network had more than 2 million viewers for the final and just short of 1.5 million for the semis. It's also huge among fans in a bunch of the other countries (Japan, DR, PR, etc.)

So yes, they broadcast it and lots of people watch it even though it's on MLB Network rather than ESPN or something.
 
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