Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season Edition II - Winter Meeting Madness

[Amadeus]

This management team has a track record of not closing their deals. But for the names we were attached to, I'm not losing sleep over who we weren't able to get.

No thanks to Kenley Jansen, Gibson. Wouldn't have mind Heaney but I'm good with bringing Stripling back.

 

[Discoverer]

I think Atkins is probably starting to sweat a little. Usually they get one of their targets by now.

Gausman's the only big free agent they signed before late December. Ryu was near the end of the month, Springer and Semien were in January... I hate waiting, but it's not really against their MO to slow-play the market, and it's worked out pretty well for them the last few years.

 

[Woodman19]

This management team has a track record of not closing their deals. But for the names we were attached to, I'm not losing sleep over who we weren't able to get.

No thanks to Kenley Jansen, Gibson. Wouldn't have mind Heaney but I'm good with bringing Stripling back.

George Springer, Kevin Gausman and Hyun Jin-Ryu say hello

 

[Eyedea]

Astros, Giants, Cubs, Brewers, Dbacks, Twins, and Guardians. Still quite a few teams out there looking for catching.

 

[Amadeus]

This management team has a track record of not closing their deals. But for the names we were attached to, I'm not losing sleep over who we weren't able to get.

No thanks to Kenley Jansen, Gibson. Wouldn't have mind Heaney but I'm good with bringing Stripling back.

Just ann

George Springer, Kevin Gausman and Hyun Jin-Ryu say hello

Yes and that's why I don't dislike this team but our reporters are always reporting us being runner ups for free agent signings. It's getting annoying.

 

[Eyedea]

Just ann


Yes and that's why I don't dislike this team but our reporters are always reporting us being runner ups for free agent signings. It's getting annoying.

It's not Toronto reporters though. David Vassegh for instance is a Dodger reporter. BNS may have been in on the Heaney news but most guys saying the Jays were finalists aren't actually affiliated with the Jays.

 

[GoonieFace]

Just ann


Yes and that's why I don't dislike this team but our reporters are always reporting us being runner ups for free agent signings. It's getting annoying.

In alot of cases it’s a blessing in disguise

 

[Cloned]

I was never really big on him anyway, all his numbers are trending in the wrong direction for a couple of years now.


I guess the unfortunate reality of having your main asset to move in a trade is you have to wait for the Free Agent market to dry up before teams pivot to you. It would not be ideal if Contreras went to one of the Cards/Diamondbacks and Murphy the other.

Hopefully Atkins has many backup plans.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Nootbar or Carlson would have been fun but there are other attractive trading partners out there. I'm just ready for this catching market to get moving.

 

[Cloned]

Gausman's the only big free agent they signed before late December. Ryu was near the end of the month, Springer and Semien were in January... I hate waiting, but it's not really against their MO to slow-play the market, and it's worked out pretty well for them the last few years.

I meant in terms of where the market is. It’s moving fast right now and a lot of big names are signing sooner than in years past IIRC.

 

[Canada4Gold]

I know there's been no mention of him but please don't sign Eovaldi. Him, Tallion, and Walker are the trio of blah, and he's the only one who costs a pick. Looking at what the other 2 got no thank you, he's pitched more than 125 inning once in the last 7 years and mostly has been the definition of mediocre

 

[Jojalu]

This offseason is starting to piss me off. Jays better get to the table holding a fullhouse.

As of now they are worse off than when it began.

 

[Canada4Gold]

It's not fun that we've missed out on everyone so far but the only 2 guys that have signed that I've been at all interested in at that price were Verlander and Heaney and I know Verlander wasn't happening at that cost. We've basically just missed out on Heaney so far. Gibson and Jansen doesn't really move the needle for me so who cares, and I'm really happy we're not paying Tallion or Walker 18 million dollars for almost a half decade.

Trades, Nimmo, Senga, Stripling, Conforto, Reyes, Rogers, Gallo, Syndergaard, Rodon are the most likely options left in that order. When half those names are off the table then we've got a problem.

 

[kb]

This offseason is starting to piss me off. Jays better get to the table holding a fullhouse.

As of now they are worse off than when it began.

I mean...they can't force FA's to sign. They offered more money to Heaney than Texas did.

Don't discount the fact that C19 and the border issues are still quite fresh in people's minds. Being as they were the only non-US team, they had to deal with far more issues than the US based teams.

There still may be a bit of a hangover effect from that. Players saw the Jays playing in Dunedin and Buffalo for extended periods of time and may rightfully be concerned about that happening again over the life of their contract.

 

[Jojalu]

I mean...they can't force FA's to sign. They offered more money to Heaney than Texas did.

Don't discount the fact that C19 and the border issues are still quite fresh in people's minds. Being as they were the only non-US team, they had to deal with far more issues than the US based teams.

There still may be a bit of a hangover effect from that. Players saw the Jays playing in Dunedin and Buffalo for extended periods of time and may rightfully be concerned about that happening again over the life of their contract.

Hard to argue but I don't get not matching or going over the 17.5 mil the Cubs offered Bellinger.

Boras has a good relationship with the Jays and Tor is a perfect place for Bellinger in a ahow me year.

I knew they would never be in on Turner or Judge and skeptical about Verlander.

Still time to put a package together for Reynolds and trade a catcher for some help.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Hard to argue but I don't get not matching or going over the 17.5 mil the Cubs offered Bellinger.

Boras has a good relationship with the Jays and Tor is a perfect place for Bellinger in a ahow me year.

I knew they would never be in on Turner or Judge and skeptical about Verlander.

Still time to put a package together for Reynolds and trade a catcher for some help.

Because 17.5 million is gross for Bellinger as it is. Hard pass on offering more.

 

[Discoverer]

Hard to argue but I don't get not matching or going over the 17.5 mil the Cubs offered Bellinger.

Boras has a good relationship with the Jays and Tor is a perfect place for Bellinger in a ahow me year.

I knew they would never be in on Turner or Judge and skeptical about Verlander.

Still time to put a package together for Reynolds and trade a catcher for some help.

I don't blame them at all for not matching on Bellinger. I didn't mind him as a target, but that's WAY more than it should have cost in a "hopefully he can bounce back after two years of being terrible" deal.

 

[Jojalu]

Because 17.5 million is gross for Bellinger as it is. Hard pass on offering more.

I have zero problem spending Roger's money for them.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Great for both parties.

Setting aside the Yankees being a division rival, I'd be beyond choked to lose my superstar player simply over money. Whether the Yankees overpaid or not, they had to get it done. And good on them for doing so.

I really hope no one likes this post

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I have zero problem spending Roger's money for them.

I mean I wouldn't either if it was an unlimited supply but that doesn't seem likely.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Overreacting aside, the one thing they do need to do is get their asses moving on trading a catcher.

Cardinals are seemingly out of the market now and there aren't too many teams left that need one.

 

[saska sault]

The Jays are in a better position than most think. We still have all our catchers, yes we moved Teo but it just relocated from one position of strength to a weakness. We have not overspent in free agency. Its a long off season, it is kind of fun to wonder if the Jays make a big move today or the week before spring training. Flexibility is nice.

Overreacting aside, the one thing they do need to do is get their asses moving on trading a catcher.

Cardinals are seemingly out of the market now and there aren't too many teams left that need one.

Or they hold out and wait until the market of free agents is down to garbage and teams will have to meet the asking price of our catchers. When there is 4 or 5 good free options, its hard to get maximum asking price... teams hold out hope they can keep assets and just spend money.

 

[Discoverer]

Overreacting aside, the one thing they do need to do is get their asses moving on trading a catcher.

Cardinals are seemingly out of the market now and there aren't too many teams left that need one.

I know not all of these teams automatically need a catcher since some of them sucked due to injury, or have a prospect ready to take over or whatever, but it's kind of crazy: EIGHT teams had negative fWAR from the catcher spot last year. Four more were below 1 fWAR. Another four had between 1 and 1.5.

That's just nuts. Just over half the league got basically nothing out of their catchers last year. If nothing else, it underscores how strong a position the Jays are in with their catchers.

 

[kb]

Hard to argue but I don't get not matching or going over the 17.5 mil the Cubs offered Bellinger.

Boras has a good relationship with the Jays and Tor is a perfect place for Bellinger in a ahow me year.

I knew they would never be in on Turner or Judge and skeptical about Verlander.

Still time to put a package together for Reynolds and trade a catcher for some help.

Bellinger is only worth that to a contending team if a team figures they will get surplus value from that contract. Right now he is purely a reclamation project you are betting on, which is why it makes more sense for a non-contender like the Cubs than the Jays. None of the other contenders signed him when they could have.

The Jays could have paid more, but if he ends up only good enough for the Bradley Zimmer or JBjr role, that would be a terrible waste.

Plus, CF is a young man's position, and most late 20's/early 30's age out of CF to a corner spot. I'd look to the trade market if Nimmo prices himself out, as he has future corner outfield written all over him too.

I think the Jays are still in fine position. The catching market it looking to be taking shape now too, with Contreras potentially to the Cards. That will clear up the market a bit.

 

[Blitzkrug]

I know not all of these teams automatically need a catcher since some of them sucked due to injury, or have a prospect ready to take over or whatever, but it's kind of crazy: EIGHT teams had negative fWAR from the catcher spot last year. Four more were below 1 fWAR. Another four had between 1 and 1.5.

That's just nuts. Just over half the league got basically nothing out of their catchers last year. If nothing else, it underscores how strong a position the Jays are in with their catchers.

Catcher is still a position where teams value things other than hitting. Not as much as they did in the old days, but still enough where they can live with lower WAR from that spot.

Hell the world champion Astros won it all with a guy sporting 0.3 bWAR and an ops+ of 69 and didn't seem to care because of his great defense and game calling.

Cleveland willingly started Austin Hedges the entire season too.

If you can find a guy back there like a Danny Jansen or Sean Murphy, that's great. If not? Eh, it's not like the league was ever exploding with gifted bats at the position to begin with.