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Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season Edition II - Winter Meeting Madness

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Blair said on the Walkoff Podcast that he expects more position player moves. Still thinks Espinal is traded. Later says he expected one of Espinal, Biggio or Barger to be moved before the season.

Also expects a pen addition. Says there should be multiple moves coming.

Matt Chapman and his wife love Toronto. Toronto will approach Chapman soon on an extension and the Jays will start at a 3 year extension. He sees the Jays and Chapman agreeing on a deal before the season.

Chapman and Bassitt are great friends and want to play together. Also says he loves the team, city and really loves the manager (Schneider). Says he thinks the Jays will get Chapman to agree to a long term deal before Vladdy or Bo.
 
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I always enjoy the IFA signings. It's a great way to stock the pipeline up. One thing I do notice is that it's exceedingly rare to have a pitcher get $$$$. Obviously because it is nearly impossible to project a 15/16 year old as a future star, and it follows the mantra TINSTAPP.
 
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phillipmike said:
Blair said on the Walkoff Podcast that he expects more position player moves. Still thinks Espinal is traded. Later says he expected one of Espinal, Biggio or Barger to be moved before the season.

Also expects a pen addition. Says there should be multiple moves coming.

Matt Chapman and his wife love Toronto. Toronto will approach Chapman soon on an extension and the Jays will start at a 3 year extension. He sees the Jays and Chapman agreeing on a deal before the season.

Chapman and Bassitt are great friends and want to play together. Also says he loves the team, city and really loves the manager (Schneider). Says he thinks the Jays will get Chapman to agree to a long term deal before Vladdy or Bo.
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A three year extension for Chapman would be amazing.

An Espinal trade is tough because it automatically involves more moving parts. Not that that would be super hard - there are a lot of utility guys who can play an adequate SS available - but I think a Biggio trade is way more likely. With the current team construction, he's a bit redundant, while Espinal plays a number of key roles (backup SS, starting every day against lefties, pinch hitting against lefties, late-game defensive replacement...) Biggio is just generic depth without a set role.
 
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kb said:
I always enjoy the IFA signings. It's a great way to stock the pipeline up. One thing I do notice is that it's exceedingly rare to have a pitcher get $$$$. Obviously because it is nearly impossible to project a 15/16 year old as a future star, and it follows the mantra TINSTAPP.
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I can't remember where I heard it but the Astros do a phenomenal job signing IFA pitchers after they turn eighteen or nineteen. At that point the international scouts stop looking at them but you can get a much better read on them at that age. I think they had three of these late cheap signings on their post season staff last year. Seems insane for teams to stop looking at pitchers at those ages when you can absolutely get a much better read of what they are or can become
 
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Discoverer said:
A three year extension for Chapman would be amazing.

An Espinal trade is tough because it automatically involves more moving parts. Not that that would be super hard - there are a lot of utility guys who can play an adequate SS available - but I think a Biggio trade is way more likely. With the current team construction, he's a bit redundant, while Espinal plays a number of key roles (backup SS, starting every day against lefties, pinch hitting against lefties, late-game defensive replacement...) Biggio is just generic depth without a set role.
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Agreed but Blair said it’s the starting point. With the Mets needing a 3B, I bet Chapman can get 5-6 years on the open market so at least 5 years should be expected.

Prefer to move Biggio as well but the return would be minimal too. Whereas Espinal could get you a legit arm.

If you could trade Espinal for a reliever, sign say Andrelton Simmons and grab Grossman, I’m good. Give it a few month, one of Barger or Orelvis could be ready if you need a long term SS.

Ideally you keep Espinal and just sign Grossman and Matt Moore or Chafin. But Blair keeps bringing up an Espinal trade so he is hearing something. This is 3 times now he brought it up.
 
phillipmike said:
Agreed but Blair said it’s the starting point. With the Mets needing a 3B, I bet Chapman can get 5-6 years on the open market so at least 5 years should be expected.

Prefer to move Biggio as well but the return would be minimal too. Whereas Espinal could get you a legit arm.

If you could trade Espinal for a reliever, sign say Andrelton Simmons and grab Grossman, I’m good. Give it a few month, one of Barger or Orelvis could be ready if you need a long term SS.

Ideally you keep Espinal and just sign Grossman and Matt Moore or Chafin. But Blair keeps bringing up an Espinal trade so he is hearing something. This is 3 times now he brought it up.
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It would have to be a hell of a reliever because the drop from Espinal to Simmons would be significant.
 
Discoverer said:
It would have to be a hell of a reliever because the drop from Espinal to Simmons would be significant.
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To me, a guy like Simmons is there for an in-game injury for Bo if Bo needs a few days.

But if Bo is out weeks or months, then you aren’t starting Simmons. We are making a trade or using the next prospect who is ready which is likely Barger. Orelvis is a possibility if he starts hot. Leo Jimenez too if his bat come around, glove is ready.

Even Capra played the most of his defensive innings at SS in the minors. Defense has improved over years.

It’s not a concerns for me.
 
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phillipmike said:
To me, a guy like Simmons is there for an in-game injury for Bo if Bo needs a few days.

But if Bo is out weeks or months, then you aren’t starting Simmons. We are making a trade or using the next prospect who is ready which is likely Barger. Orelvis is a possibility if he starts hot. Leo Jimenez too if his bat come around, glove is ready.

Even Capra played the most of his defensive innings at SS in the minors. Defense has improved over years.

It’s not a concerns for me.
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I'm less concerned about a potential injury situation and more concerned about the fact that you're replacing an excellent part-time starter (Espinal would play every time there's a lefty in because he has a 125 wRC+ against them) with a mediocre pure backup.

That's a huge downgrade and, like I said, it would have to be an impact reliever coming back to balance it out, especially since the Jays are already looking for another guy to hit against lefties.
 
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Discoverer said:
I'm less concerned about a potential injury situation and more concerned about the fact that you're replacing an excellent part-time starter (Espinal would play every time there's a lefty in because he has a 125 wRC+ against them) with a mediocre pure backup.

That's a huge downgrade and, like I said, it would have to be an impact reliever coming back to balance it out, especially since the Jays are already looking for another guy to hit against lefties.
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You don’t need to use Simmons in that role though. This team currently has the luxury of 3 2b. In this scenario Merrifield would play second against lefties.

Provided they add one more OF, they could definitely move Espy. That said, he’s a great role player and definitely has value, so need to give him away. But if the return is significant, there’s no reason not to do it.
 
Maybe I am forgetting or missed it, but do we know who the Jays are signing in the international pool? I know Bonilla is one and looks like Soto as well.

Month away until catchers and pitchers report. I am itching for baseball to start.
 
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Ale Brew said:
You don’t need to use Simmons in that role though. This team currently has the luxury of 3 2b. In this scenario Merrifield would play second against lefties.

Provided they add one more OF, they could definitely move Espy. That said, he’s a great role player and definitely has value, so need to give him away. But if the return is significant, there’s no reason not to do it.
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Merrifield is solid, but I would say against lefties he's still a couple steps down from Espinal.

Ultimately, though, I agree... moving him is understandable, but only if the return is an impact arm because he carries significant value to the Jays right now.
 
Anyone know why several Jays are in the Vancouver area?
 

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Discoverer said:
I'm less concerned about a potential injury situation and more concerned about the fact that you're replacing an excellent part-time starter (Espinal would play every time there's a lefty in because he has a 125 wRC+ against them) with a mediocre pure backup.

That's a huge downgrade and, like I said, it would have to be an impact reliever coming back to balance it out, especially since the Jays are already looking for another guy to hit against lefties.
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If your concern isn’t long term SS, then it’s even less of a concern because it’s very easy to find a right handed hitting 2B who can mash lefties.

Might even have one on the team in Otto Lopez;

Otto Lopez slash line vs Lefties;
2021:
.344.429.458.887

2022:
381.452.543.995
 
dredeye said:
Do we have that much available to us? We lost some already with free agency
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We have $5,284,000. If Bonilla does get $4 million we would still have a decent chunk since so many guys sign for pretty small amounts and I haven't heard us rumored for anyone else near even a million. Hopefully Bonilla comes in light.

The money we lost signing Bassett comes out our 2024 IFA pool i think. Think we lost $500K.
 
trellaine201 said:
What’s the projection on Bichette in arb? Ooops i guess the time has passed :) its showdown time between the team and Bo. Kinda ugly. Can they trade him before the hearing etc? How does it work?
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I don't see it as ugly at all, both sides have a value they think is fair. the team is goign to say Bo is one of the worse defensive SS in the league and should be paid as such and Bo is going to say he is one of the best offensive players at his position in the league and should be paid as such. Unless he is a complete child he will understand the game, take what ever the arbitrator rules and move on.

I think the ugly "noise" is media trying to hype up drama that is simply not there.
 
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