Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season Edition 5.0 - The Winter Meeting Chronicles

[canucksfan]

A 4/80 offer was more than reasonable for Edwin.

 

[Leaftors]

From what I've seen, that's absolutely false. One of my friends, who had never been interested in baseball in the past, bought tickets to around twenty games this season. The last season and a half created millions of new fans, and a large percentage of those fans will become disinterested as soon as the team starts losing. The Jays have new fans and the owners need to spend money to keep them.



You absolutely have to spend money to win, especially if you want to do it for a long enough time. Most of the teams with the lowest payrolls are either rebuilding teams (Brewers, Rockies, Braves) or teams with tons of talented young players who will all need to be paid in the next 3-4 years (Indians, Astros, Mets). Unfortunately for the Blue Jays, they don't have that collection of young talent, which means that they need to pay to keep their veterans if they want to win. At some point, a team needs to spend money if they want to win for an extended period of time. In the Blue Jays' case, if they don't spend money this offseason, their window is closed for the next 5-10 years, maybe more.

the dodgers have the highest payroll in baseball, when is the last time they won?


The jays "window" has only gotten them as far as the ALCS as well, so who even knows if we resign Edwin, get fowler, how far we would have even went.


The front office doesn't have to break the bank to provide a good product.

We seen this last year when happ and Estrada gave us incredible stats for their value.

 

[Woodman19]

You can win if you have money or a good front office, but when you have both you tend to win all the time.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

C'mon EE. Sign something.

If the Jays get off to a bad start, watch crowds go down to their 16k, I will enjoy that. A lot. If it occurs. Not the bad start, the kick to the groin of the corps that own the Jays.

EE gone, Bautista gone, add in some early season struggles .... bye bye $$$ at the gates and the beer lines.

 

[Grand Volcan]

the dodgers have the highest payroll in baseball, when is the last time they won?


The jays "window" has only gotten them as far as the ALCS as well, so who even knows if we resign Edwin, get fowler, how far we would have even went.


The front office doesn't have to break the bank to provide a good product.

We seen this last year when happ and Estrada gave us incredible stats for their value.

The Dodgers, since their spending spree, have won their division four straight times and have one of the top farms in baseball. Their financial strength and willingness to sign free agents despite the long-term problems associated with them, allowed them to add to the strength of roster without sacrificing their farm.

The MLB playoffs are a crapshoot. The best chance to win is to just get into the playoffs. And countless articles have analyzed the strong correlation between high payroll and regular season success, which leads to playoff appearances, which leads to World Series.

 

[Eyedea]

How the heck does a small city like St. Louis command these types of dollar decisions and we, the New York of Canada, don't? Pathetic.

If the Jays get off to a bad start, watch crowds go down to their 16k, I will enjoy that. A lot. If it occurs. Not the bad start, the kick to the groin of the corps that own the Jays.

Have you seen St Louis' attendance rates? They have the consistent support and still operate at a similar payroll as the Jays. That's like wondering why Boston is capable of spending at or past the luxury tax. It's because they are overperformers relative to their market size.

 

[AllDay28]

i feel like the Dodgers are gonna give that entire farm up for Bryce Harper

 

[Eyedea]

i feel like the Dodgers are gonna give that entire farm up for Bryce Harper

Probably not wise since he'll go to market in two years and the Yankees (his favourite team) will presumably sign him.

 

[AllDay28]

Probably not wise since he'll go to market in two years and the Yankees (his favourite team) will presumably sign him.

LAD would obviously make the trade with the assumption he resigns and they can definitely afford it.

 

[Eyedea]

LAD would obviously make the trade with the assumption he resigns and they can definitely afford it.

And also the assumption that the Nats actually want prospects for Harper.

 

[Leaftors]

The Dodgers, since their spending spree, have won their division four straight times and have one of the top farms in baseball. Their financial strength and willingness to sign free agents despite the long-term problems associated with them, allowed them to add to the strength of roster without sacrificing their farm.

The MLB playoffs are a crapshoot. The best chance to win is to just get into the playoffs. And countless articles have analyzed the strong correlation between high payroll and regular season success, which leads to playoff appearances, which leads to World Series.

And? the ultimate goal is something that hasn't been attained, so ergo spending money isn't always the answer.

 

[AllDay28]

And also the assumption that the Nats actually want prospects for Harper.

well he wants 10/400 and theyve said they wont pay it, so if they value 1 compensatory pick over what theyd get trading him then sure.

 

[Eyedea]

well he wants 10/400 and theyve said they wont pay it, so if they value 1 compensatory pick over what theyd get trading him then sure.

Yes because his impact on their WS aspirations during the next two years means nothing to them.

 

[hockeywiz542]

speaking of agendas, we’re going to come clean here. It’s been a crummy couple of weeks at our newspaper. Hell, it’s been a crummy couple of years. We’re fighting to maintain our share of the market and it’s a tough battle. This is hardly a revelation.

but it doesn’t make it any easier when we’re competing against in-house writers, rights-holders who pretend they’re impartial and anyone whose coverage and access is determined by a business arrangement.

this, of course, is the new media landscape, and nothing written here is going to change it. But, every now and then, there’s a need to call these “news†sources on their more obvious biases.

Take our friends at sportsnet, who are owned by rogers who also own the blue jays. After a successful season in which they led the american league in attendance by a wide margin (averaging 41,880 fans per game) the jays failed to sign edwin encarnacion and filled the void at dh and first-base with two cheaper options in kendrys morales and steve pearce.

those moves weren’t popular with jays’ fans, but about the time pearce was signed, sportsnet started reporting encarnacion had rejected a four-year, $80-million offer from the jays and the market was drying up for the slugger. See, it wasn’t the jays’ fault encarnacion didn’t sign — it was the player and his representatives. Not sure if jays’ fans buy that story completely, but you have to admit, it’s a lot better than the version where they blew the negotiation.

 

[Mathew]

Just for you guys to remember if we are spending 160m as payroll that's American money we are spending and not Canadian so we are actually spending more then 160m Canadian

 

[Mitchy]

How do the Jays come out badly in the EE negotiations? He rejected the initial deal, which was more than fair, and the Jays moved on. Now, after overplaying his hand, he's struggling to find a deal anywhere close to the Jays' original offer. So, again, how did they blow the negotiations?

 

[Leaftors]

How do the Jays come out badly in the EE negotiations? He rejected the initial deal, which was more than fair, and the Jays moved on. Now, after overplaying his hand, he's struggling to find a deal anywhere close to the Jays' original offer. So, again, how did they blow the negotiations?

Its a theory that the jays are against the fans because clearly thats the case, and its all a rogers plot to make the blue jays look good and edwin bad

 

[SDig14]

Well, knowing what we know at the current moment, you don't think they regret the Morales deal? I mean, at this rate, EE might only cost $5 million more a season than Morales.

Their initial offer was more than fair given his age, and from what we have heard is out there, is likely an overpay.

It's possible they could have given EE until the winter meetings because there weren't many deals done before that point. But Morales price point has the potential to be very solid value, so it's possible he could have been gone by the time EE made a decision.

I think Jays come out fine, but I also think we are better with EE, at least for the next 2 years.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Grand Volcan]

And? the ultimate goal is something that hasn't been attained, so ergo spending money isn't always the answer.

Um.. Making the MLB playoffs gives a higher chance of winning the World Series, so it is the answer for some teams. Guess who the two teams most successful in the last decade were? It's the Red Sox and Yankees. And guess what? They also led in spending that decade.

 

[UnknownNasty]

Um.. Making the MLB playoffs gives a higher chance of winning the World Series, so it is the answer for some teams. Guess who the two teams most successful in the last decade were? It's the Red Sox and Yankees. And guess what? They also led in spending that decade.

Exactly. The Yankees and the Red Sox have both stayed relevant throughout the last twenty years or so by spending to not only keep their good players, but also to acquire some that would improve the team. Spending money is even more important when the only hitter to come from the Jays' developmental system over the last few years is Kevin Pillar.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

How do the Jays come out badly in the EE negotiations? He rejected the initial deal, which was more than fair, and the Jays moved on. Now, after overplaying his hand, he's struggling to find a deal anywhere close to the Jays' original offer. So, again, how did they blow the negotiations?

Because there are teams still out there that can afford Edwin. The Jays have signed Morales/Pearce they could fit Edwin in if they want but most likely once things calm down and teams can place certain numbers in certain places Edwin will still get 20 mil a year and it might be to a competitor of the Jays. Overplaying his hand is a hot take by the media to make Atkins and Shapiro look better. Do you forget how many times an upper echelon player has signed late and still got his money? Obviously you have.

 

[Lightsol]

Because there are teams still out there that can afford Edwin. The Jays have signed Morales/Pearce they could fit Edwin in if they want but most likely once things calm down and teams can place certain numbers in certain places Edwin will still get 20 mil a year and it might be to a competitor of the Jays. Overplaying his hand is a hot take by the media to make Atkins and Shapiro look better. Do you forget how many times an upper echelon player has signed late and still got his money? Obviously you have.

You don't see a Baltimore come along every season and offer a guy above market rate when there's no market for him, either.

 

[Mitchy]

Because there are teams still out there that can afford Edwin. The Jays have signed Morales/Pearce they could fit Edwin in if they want but most likely once things calm down and teams can place certain numbers in certain places Edwin will still get 20 mil a year and it might be to a competitor of the Jays. Overplaying his hand is a hot take by the media to make Atkins and Shapiro look better. Do you forget how many times an upper echelon player has signed late and still got his money? Obviously you have.

And I've also seen many, many times where they lose money/not get the money they originally wanted. Besides, those "upper echelon" players usually have many, many teams after their service. EE doesn't seem to have many suitors and before you again claim that it's the (Sportsnet) media trying to be favourable to the Jays, this is the American media I'm talking about, who gain nothing by trying to protect the Jays.

Also, he might still get 20M, but I doubt it's for the term he originally wanted.

 

[oilers89]

Just for you guys to remember if we are spending 160m as payroll that's American money we are spending and not Canadian so we are actually spending more then 160m Canadian

That's a good point.
215 mill candian actually.