OFF DAY THREAD! Where we complain on non game days!

[Tom Hanks]

if he was really trying to help him find his best game, he’d put Jake and Rust on his wings over Sid’s objections...

Why? If he's playing badly and it seems a lot more to do with him than who he's playing with then giving him Jake seems useless. Jake has gotten better each game and L1 has been getting lots of chances (albeit without hitting the scoresheet too much until last night).

 

[Peat]

Helping Geno find his best game =/= Only helping if catered to absolutely in every possible way

 

[Honour Over Glory]

@Randy Butternubs you wanker I meant Gaudreau. Still a plug.

 

[Andy99]

Why? If he's playing badly and it seems a lot more to do with him than who he's playing with then giving him Jake seems useless. Jake has gotten better each game and L1 has been getting lots of chances (albeit without hitting the scoresheet too much until last night).

he sees his primary benefit to the team as helping offensively clearly, based on what Sully says...if you want him to regain his confidence, you need to put him in the best offensive position to succeed and that includes wingers who can bury his chances...Jake works with everyone...it’s important to team success to get him going...

 

[Jesse]

Really really really good discussion here.

@Jesse I am DYING to hear your thoughts on our forwards not supporting our defense in any way. I mean like zero rotation. Zero support. Zero anything.

It's a problem, but it's not - to me - "the" problem, if you know what I mean.

In this system, the idea is to have some manner of man-advantage along the battle areas of the ice. That usually means you overload the puck with a defenseman and two forwards. The downside to this is the backdoor is left with a defenseman and forward to cover the entire space.

If you want a real treat, watch Teddy Blueger do this. It's flawless. He takes that whole space up like some kind of giant black hole. But that's just one forward in a sea of forwards who are otherwise not very good at this kind of thing. Some of it is wanton need to play offense at any cost, some of it is puck-watching, some of it is rotating forwards who aren't in the area they're supposed to be in, and as we saw with Chad Ruhwedel in game one against the Rangers, sometimes the weak side D just inexplicably leaves that spot to go assist his partner for no reason whatsoever.

Overall, it's an issue without question. But we've seen it work before, and it works really well sans meltdown. All they have to do is find a way to stop melting down. Not sure how you coach that.

 

[Tom Hanks]

he sees his primary benefit to the team as helping offensively clearly, based on what Sully says...if you want him to regain his confidence, you need to put him in the best offensive position to succeed and that includes wingers who can bury his chances...Jake works with everyone...it’s important to team success to get him going...

Well up until last night Jake was shooting at 7.7% so I’m not sure that’d help.

Is it just hockey where players only play bad because of the coach and not because they are playing badly? I don’t hear it as much as I do here than other sports I follow.

 

[TooManyHumans]

Well up until last night Jake was shooting at 7.7% so I’m not sure that’d help.

Is it just hockey where players only play bad because of the coach and not because they are playing badly? I don’t hear it as much as I do here than other sports I follow.

Tomlin gets blamed for everything.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

@Randy Butternubs you wanker I meant Gaudreau. Still a plug.

I just wanted to call you a nincompoop.

 

[pistolpete11]

What's funny is that McCann-Blueger-Tanev line is a legitimately good 3rd line too

I get why people were hesitant with Blueger as the 3C, seeing how he hadn't shown to be quite 3C caliber yet, but he's been downright awesome this year and Tanev is also showing that he's better than a 4th liner. That line has what a lot of other Penguins 3rd lines haven't had: an identity and a cohesive bond.

I never understood why. He was on pace for 26 points last year (Tanev more than that), getting caved in on D-zone starts, and lugging around the offensive blackhole that is ZAR. Give him and Tanev a decent third wheel like McCann and maybe a little bit more favorable usage and 30-35 points is perfectly reasonable for Teddy. It's not the dominant, line driver 3C some people want like Staal, but it's pretty much in line with Bones w/o PP time.

 

[ColePens]

It's a problem, but it's not - to me - "the" problem, if you know what I mean.

In this system, the idea is to have some manner of man-advantage along the battle areas of the ice. That usually means you overload the puck with a defenseman and two forwards. The downside to this is the backdoor is left with a defenseman and forward to cover the entire space.

If you want a real treat, watch Teddy Blueger do this. It's flawless. He takes that whole space up like some kind of giant black hole. But that's just one forward in a sea of forwards who are otherwise not very good at this kind of thing. Some of it is wanton need to play offense at any cost, some of it is puck-watching, some of it is rotating forwards who aren't in the area they're supposed to be in, and as we saw with Chad Ruhwedel in game one against the Rangers, sometimes the weak side D just inexplicably leaves that spot to go assist his partner for no reason whatsoever.

Overall, it's an issue without question. But we've seen it work before, and it works really well sans meltdown. All they have to do is find a way to stop melting down. Not sure how you coach that.

See that is the only slight disagreement. I think if they fix transition defense and defensive awareness, I think other things fall into place. It's amazing how many times they go back to the d-zone with neutral numbers and somehow end up giving an open guy space. It blows my mind.

Brucey B called it duplicating coverage. And they do that very often. I think if they simply just fix THAT, then they are a playoff team. Then if they grab one more thing and some luck... that's a Cup contender.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

That Bruins lineup doesn't look as scary as usual. Having Pasternak and his 48 goals and 95 points not in the lineup is huge considering he did that in only 70 games last year. Krug gone also takes away their best offensive defenseman. Krug had 49 points in 61 games so he is a big loss also and Chara is also not on the team. They still have a good lineup but not as scary at the moment. Bruins always play us tough but this is the time to play them.

Almost forgot we do have several LD's out so we aren't at full strength either. Plus we are also missing a top line forward with Rodriguez out.

 

[SEALBound]

I'm really excited for O'Connor. Adding a 6'3 guy who can skate and is hard-nosed is going to be a treat if he can produce.

*Looks at this comment and then thinks back to ZAR*. All I can do is hope for greatness.

You know what you have in EFraud, so let’s see what O’Conner can do. EFraud is a solid 12th/13th forward, but his use here was absolutely astounding.

It’s not his fault he was played on the first line when he’s clearly far from a top winger. Hopefully he makes a full recovery....after the season is over.

Dude, don't wish ill on someone. ERod is still a person on the Pens roster. Don't wish long term injury on another person. It's bad karma and cringy.

It's a problem, but it's not - to me - "the" problem, if you know what I mean.

In this system, the idea is to have some manner of man-advantage along the battle areas of the ice. That usually means you overload the puck with a defenseman and two forwards. The downside to this is the backdoor is left with a defenseman and forward to cover the entire space.

If you want a real treat, watch Teddy Blueger do this. It's flawless. He takes that whole space up like some kind of giant black hole. But that's just one forward in a sea of forwards who are otherwise not very good at this kind of thing. Some of it is wanton need to play offense at any cost, some of it is puck-watching, some of it is rotating forwards who aren't in the area they're supposed to be in, and as we saw with Chad Ruhwedel in game one against the Rangers, sometimes the weak side D just inexplicably leaves that spot to go assist his partner for no reason whatsoever.

Overall, it's an issue without question. But we've seen it work before, and it works really well sans meltdown. All they have to do is find a way to stop melting down. Not sure how you coach that.

It's high stakes move when the dmen activate like they have been. If they provide the support and win the battle, amaze-balls. If they don't, it's big trouble in little Pensburgh. Given the number of defensive breakdowns and questionable goaltending, I find it odd they play this brand of hockey. Now if it's Carey Price in net and you can trust him to stop and fix the mistakes, they great, go for it. But after the first two games, not seeing any adjustments given the quality of goaltending, it was odd to me.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

*Looks at this comment and then thicks back to ZAR*. All I can do is hope for greatness.

I agree not many of these UDFAs ever hit (to a point where ZAR is one of the best), but OC’s sudden growth spurt and rapid development path is pretty intriguing. Don’t wanna get my hopes up but I’m with @Gurglesons

 

[Al Smith]

I never understood why. He was on pace for 26 points last year (Tanev more than that), getting caved in on D-zone starts, and lugging around the offensive blackhole that is ZAR. Give him and Tanev a decent third wheel like McCann and maybe a little bit more favorable usage and 30-35 points is perfectly reasonable for Teddy. It's not the dominant, line driver 3C some people want like Staal, but it's pretty much in line with Bones w/o PP time.

the issue I had with 53 last season was repeatedly failing to win crucial faceoffs in the d-zone. I haven’t checked his numbers this year, but presumably he’ll get better at that over time.

 

[Gurglesons]

*Looks at this comment and then thicks back to ZAR*. All I can do is hope for greatness.

If O'Connor can turn into a ZAR, I'll be happy tbh.

 

[Darren McCord]

If O'Connor can turn into a ZAR, I'll be happy tbh.

Barf. I like Reese but hate his game for the fourth line. I want the fourth line to bring energy. Reese is a decent player but I wish he played with more hop. He is more skilled then he gets credit for but he's just as bland as Adams without the shot blocking.

I would rather have a less skilled guy if he plays with energy. I dont know what to expect from O'Conner at all, but I could see him being a ZAR type player with a better nose for the net.

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

I’d still so confused how and why Rodrigues, a 27 year old career plug, went from being a healthy scratch in the playoffs and later traded, to being a full-time starter that gets to play in the top 6.

What happened? It’s such a weird situation. I just don’t see what they like about him. He’s the worst regular forward, easily, but he plays on the top line?

He probably have some dirt on Sully

 

[Tom Hanks]

Barf. I like Reese but hate his game for the fourth line. I want the fourth line to bring energy. Reese is a decent player but I wish he played with more hop. He is more skilled then he gets credit for but he's just as bland as Adams without the shot blocking.

I would rather have a less skilled guy if he plays with energy. I dont know what to expect from O'Conner at all, but I could see him being a ZAR type player with a better nose for the net.

ZAR has good positioning and doesn’t get scored on much which for a 4th line with heavy D zone starts is pretty much what you need. If he was better in a couple other areas then you are paying more for him.

 

[Jesse]

See that is the only slight disagreement. I think if they fix transition defense and defensive awareness, I think other things fall into place. It's amazing how many times they go back to the d-zone with neutral numbers and somehow end up giving an open guy space. It blows my mind.

Brucey B called it duplicating coverage. And they do that very often. I think if they simply just fix THAT, then they are a playoff team. Then if they grab one more thing and some luck... that's a Cup contender.

I see your point, I think I misread what you were initially saying as their issues were stemming from longer defensive zone shifts where they establish a formation and try to box out.

I have an article coming tomorrow that was meant to address this on the whole but became very Malkin specific at some point. I think there will be some things in there that speak exactly to what you're saying.

A big one is "flying the zone" or - assuming your teammates are taking possession of the puck when they decidedly aren't. You end up 15 feet into the neutral zone while the other team is attacking. It's happening a lot.

 

[Jesse]

It's high stakes move when the dmen activate like they have been. If they provide the support and win the battle, amaze-balls. If they don't, it's big trouble in little Pensburgh. Given the number of defensive breakdowns and questionable goaltending, I find it odd they play this brand of hockey. Now if it's Carey Price in net and you can trust him to stop and fix the mistakes, they great, go for it. But after the first two games, not seeing any adjustments given the quality of goaltending, it was odd to me.[/QUOTE]

I'm happier to see this, I think. It's been noticeably absent. Dangerous, like you said. But this team has the makeup to accomplish an active D - more active than it had been in recent years, anyway.

 

[Peat]

I hope DOC's more fun to watch than ZAR but realistically if we get two and a half seasons of filling a bottom six shirt decently, it's a win. I hope for more, think he can be more, but we will see.

If he can avoid getting injured as much, that'd be a good start.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I never understood why. He was on pace for 26 points last year (Tanev more than that), getting caved in on D-zone starts, and lugging around the offensive blackhole that is ZAR. Give him and Tanev a decent third wheel like McCann and maybe a little bit more favorable usage and 30-35 points is perfectly reasonable for Teddy. It's not the dominant, line driver 3C some people want like Staal, but it's pretty much in line with Bones w/o PP time.

I think having a quality 4C behind him also helps. If Jankowski can play like a high end 4C/low end 3C as well, then our bottom six should be fine. Neither he nor Blueger may be "high end" 3Cs, but having two guys who are capable of being low end 3Cs gives us depth down the middle.

My concern about the Blueger/Tanev tandem is as soon as ZAR is healthy Sullivan's just going to default to that line again. I'd rather they have someone more talented on their wing, and just have ZAR permanently on that 4th line with Jankowski and Sceviour/Lafferty. But then I guess the issue is that 4th line's giving Jankowski nothing to play with offensively, so maybe I re-think that and spread around McCann and ZAR after all.

 

[Tom Hanks]

 

[Tom Hanks]

 

[EVGENIMERLIN]

See that is the only slight disagreement. I think if they fix transition defense and defensive awareness, I think other things fall into place. It's amazing how many times they go back to the d-zone with neutral numbers and somehow end up giving an open guy space. It blows my mind.

Brucey B called it duplicating coverage. And they do that very often. I think if they simply just fix THAT, then they are a playoff team. Then if they grab one more thing and some luck... that's a Cup contender.

It even happened in Philly (I think) where it was 2 on 3 and someone got turned around, lost their man, someone slid over to compensate, the forwards don’t get back, and the next thing you know the puck is in the back of the net. They were definitely collapsing way too low in the first couple of games in the D zone, not clearing out the front of the net, and losing their assignments often.

I never played at a high level, just casually, so to me it looks like a lack of effort/investment in the details of their d zone awareness as well as sloppiness in the neutral zone or covering back in transition.

I do think line construction is having an impact on the effort level. I do like that when playing well Letang/Marino/POJ are able to stake up ice with the puck and get it to the forwards. Our transition game at times has been much smoother