O’Reilly Trade Poll

[Dekes For Days]

Kerfoot stick is 100% kerfoot responsabilities, so yes it was the right call an a pretty easy penalty to call...

Hedman's stick is Hedman's responsibility, and you shouldn't get a massive benefit for bringing a stick into your own face.
That's usually not called.
Even less in the playoffs.
Even less to cause a 5 on 3 in the playoffs.
Even less to cause a 5 on 3 with minutes left in a one-goal playoff elimination game.
Even less to cause a 5 on 3 with minutes left in a one-goal playoff elimination game when you've already been gifted the first penalty on a phantom high stick.

Cut being your teammate to create a screen is an interference. He didn't try to avoid any contact with tampa player

I'm not sure what this sentence was supposed to be, but he didn't screen or interfere, and he did try to avoid contact. Holl kept a consistent trajectory and then literally fell down trying to avoid the Tampa player when the Tampa player cut into Holl trying to catch Tavares. It had no impact on the goal, and plays like that happen pretty much every game. Horrific call.
Meanwhile we have Tampa players literally waterskiing on Matthews in OT.

Expected goal was 22.86 to 22.2... i dont know where you take your stats...

Expected goals were 25.6-22.37 for Toronto, according to Moneypuck.
By either model, Toronto's skaters were better.

 

[thusk]

Hedman's stick is Hedman's responsibility, and you shouldn't get a massive benefit for bringing a stick into your own face.
That's usually not called.
Even less in the playoffs.
Even less to cause a 5 on 3 in the playoffs.
Even less to cause a 5 on 3 with minutes left in a one-goal playoff elimination game.
Even less to cause a 5 on 3 with minutes left in a one-goal playoff elimination game when you've already been gifted the first penalty on a phantom high stick.

I'm not sure what this sentence was supposed to be, but he didn't screen or interfere, and he did try to avoid contact. Holl kept a consistent trajectory and then literally fell down trying to avoid the Tampa player when the Tampa player cut into Holl trying to catch Tavares. It had no impact on the goal, and plays like that happen pretty much every game. Horrific call.
Meanwhile we have Tampa players literally waterskiing on Matthews in OT.

Expected goals were 25.6-22.37 for Toronto, according to Moneypuck.
By either model, Toronto's skaters were better.

If hedman make a play and hit kerfoot stick and kerfoot stick hit hedman face, its 100% kerfoot responsability and a high stick as much visible, they call it everytime

Tampa player purchasing tavares and holl interfering with defender trying to make a drfensive play, intentionnal or not, its the definition of interference

Moneypuck is not reliable, one of worst website for stats...use naturalstattrick

 

[Dekes For Days]

If hedman make a play and hit kerfoot stick and kerfoot stick hit hedman face, its 100% kerfoot responsability

If a player brings a stick into their own face by their own actions, it is usually not called. To not only call that but to call that at that point in time to give a team a 5 on 3 with minutes left in a playoff elimination game after already screwing up the initial call in the first place is horrific officiating.

Tampa player purchasing tavares and holl interfering with defender trying to make a drfensive play, intentionnal or not, its the definition of interference

I suggest you go watch the play again. Holl glides slowly in. Holl, coming in from the point, and Cirelli, turning from behind the net, are on a colliding trajectory, so Holl stops.
Cirelli, trying to chase after a Tavares he wouldn't have caught regardless, runs into Holl, knocking him down, and then Tavares scores.
That wasn't Cirelli's ice any more than it was Holl's (Holl in fact was established in the area of collision first), and it really had no impact on the goal.
Horrific call, and it's unfortunate that some people are so afraid of being labeled as "making excuses" that they refuse to call a spade a spade.
We're pretty far off the initial discussion now.

Moneypuck is not reliable, one of worst website for stats...use naturalstattrick

I'm not sure what justification you have for claiming Moneypuck to be unreliable (it in fact utilizes more information), but again, Toronto's skaters were better by both models.

 

[Racer88]

Hedman's stick is Hedman's responsibility, and you shouldn't get a massive benefit for bringing a stick into your own face.
That's usually not called.
Even less in the playoffs.
Even less to cause a 5 on 3 in the playoffs.
Even less to cause a 5 on 3 with minutes left in a one-goal playoff elimination game.
Even less to cause a 5 on 3 with minutes left in a one-goal playoff elimination game when you've already been gifted the first penalty on a phantom high stick.

I'm not sure what this sentence was supposed to be, but he didn't screen or interfere, and he did try to avoid contact. Holl kept a consistent trajectory and then literally fell down trying to avoid the Tampa player when the Tampa player cut into Holl trying to catch Tavares. It had no impact on the goal, and plays like that happen pretty much every game. Horrific call.
Meanwhile we have Tampa players literally waterskiing on Matthews in OT.

Expected goals were 25.6-22.37 for Toronto, according to Moneypuck.
By either model, Toronto's skaters were better.

Maybe some day expected goals will turn into actual real goals…….the ones that actually matter

 

[thusk]

If a player brings a stick into their own face by their own actions, it is usually not called. To not only call that but to call that at that point in time to give a team a 5 on 3 with minutes left in a playoff elimination game after already screwing up the initial call in the first place is horrific officiating.

I suggest you go watch the play again. Holl glides slowly in. Holl, coming in front the point, and Cirelli, turning from behind the net, are on a colliding trajectory, so Holl stops.
Cirelli, trying to chase after a Tavares he wouldn't have caught regardless, runs into Holl, knocking him down, and then Tavares scores.
That wasn't Cirelli's ice any more than it was Holl's, and really had no impact on the goal.
Horrific call, and it's unfortunate that some people are so afraid of being labeled as "making excuses" that they refuse to call a spade a spade.
We're pretty far off the initial discussion now.

I'm not sure what justification you have for claiming Moneypuck to be unreliable (it in fact utilizes more information), but again, Toronto's skaters were better by both models.

Kerfoot tried to be agressive with his stick, was not in a great positiom and get caught with his stick right in the hedman face when every ref watching there... whatever whats hedman did, thats changing absolutly nothing. Its was probably the easiest call for ref all game long.

It was a 1v1 battle tavares vs cirelli and holl was waiting for a pass who never come and put himself between jt and cirelli and disallowed cirelli to follow tavares.. thats 100% interference

For moneypuck i was using it before untin i find some impossible stats from there, so i find a better one in naturalstattrick

 

[Dekes For Days]

Kerfoot tried to be agressive with his stick, was not in a great positiom and get caught with his stick right in the hedman face when every ref watching there... whatever whats hedman did, thats changing absolutly nothing. Its was probably the easiest call for ref all game long.
It was a 1v1 battle tavares vs cirelli and holl was waiting for a pass who never come and put himself between jt and cirelli and disallowed cirelli to follow tavares.. thats 100% interference
For moneypuck i was using it before untin i find some impossible stats from there, so i find a better one in naturalstattrick

Hedman put the stick into his own face. Not a penalty, much less in a situation like that.
Holl did not interfere. Holl was stationary, was entitled to the ice he was in, and Cirelli ran into him while trying and failing to catch Tavares. Not a penalty, much less in a situation like that.
Impossible stats? What is that even supposed to mean? Moneypuck isn't worse than Naturalstattrick, and both show Toronto's skaters to be better anyway.

Maybe some day expected goals will turn into actual real goals…….the ones that actually matter

We scored more actual goals too.

 

[Racer88]

Hedman put the stick into his own face. Not a penalty, much less in a situation like that.
Holl did not interfere. Holl was stationary, was entitled to the ice he was in, and Cirelli ran into him while trying and failing to catch Tavares. Not a penalty, much less in a situation like that.
Impossible stats? What is that even supposed to mean? Moneypuck isn't worse than Naturalstattrick, and both show Toronto's skaters to be better anyway.

We scored more actual goals too.

That’s a relief

 

[thusk]

Hedman put the stick into his own face. Not a penalty, much less in a situation like that.
Holl did not interfere. Holl was stationary, was entitled to the ice he was in, and Cirelli ran into him while trying and failing to catch Tavares. Not a penalty, much less in a situation like that.
Impossible stats? What is that even supposed to mean? Moneypuck isn't worse than Naturalstattrick, and both show Toronto's skaters to be better anyway.

We scored more actual goals too.

Hedman didn't take kerfoot stick with their hand and give himself a shot to his head... hedman just lift kerfoot stick in the air and after kerfoot hit hedman face... kerfoot are 100% of whats happening with his sticks

The fact holl stop skating a second before the fonteact than he didn't interfere

I just took you 3 picture in whats happening in 1 second... please dont tell me its not an interference

 

[Dekes For Days]

Hedman didn't take kerfoot stick with their hand and give himself a shot to his head...

Hedman lifted Kerfoot's stick into his own face, with his own actions. Not a penalty. Bad officiating.

The fact holl stop skating a second before the fonteact than he didn't interfere
I just took you 3 picture in whats happening in 1 second... please dont tell me its not an interference

I don't know what you were trying to say, and nothing is visible in the pictures, but I've seen the video countless times. The play was not interference and the goal should not have been waived off. Bad officiating.
Let's get back to O'Rielly.

 

[ACC1224]

What do fantasies about last years loss have to do with ROR?

 

[thusk]

Hedman lifted Kerfoot's stick into his own face, with his own actions. Not a penalty. Bad officiating.

I don't know what you were trying to say, and nothing is visible in the pictures, but I've seen the video countless times. The play was not interference and the goal should not have been waived off. Bad officiating.
Let's get back to O'Rielly.

Yes its a penalty its not hedman stick who hit his face, its kerfoot stick... player are 100% responsible of what happening with their stick... if a player felt on the ice and his stick hit an opponent face, its a penalty... if hes being hit and his stick hit an opponent face, its a penalty, if an opponent lift stick and as result yout hitting his face, its a penalty because player are 100 % responsible of whats happening with his stick whatever whats happening

I gonna help you
1st picture we saw holl in playoff circle
2nd picture 1/2 later you see holls skating in cirelli direction and stop skating right in front oh him
1/2 second later you see the contact

So you seing holl skating exactly on cirelli lane, stop skating and create the contact. You seing holl interfere...

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yes its a penalty its not hedman stick who hit his face, its kerfoot stick...player are 100% responsible of what happening with their stick...

It's Kerfoot's stick who hits his face... because of Hedman's actions using his stick to lift Kerfoot's stick into his own face.
Yes, players are supposed to be responsible for what they do with their sticks, and yet Kerfoot was given a penalty for Hedman's action with his stick.

So you seing holl skating exactly on cirelli lane, stop skating and create the contact.

Holl and Cirelli were both skating with opposing trajectories. Holl stops and establishes his spot. Cirelli initiates contact. That is not interference.
Let's get back to O'Rielly.

 

[thusk]

It's Kerfoot's stick who hits his face... because of Hedman's actions using his stick to lift Kerfoot's stick into his own face.
Yes, players are supposed to be responsible for what they do with their sticks, and yet Kerfoot was given a penalty for Hedman's action with his stick.

Holl and Cirelli were both skating with opposing trajectories. Holl stops and establishes his spot. Cirelli initiates contact. That is not interference.
Let's get back to O'Rielly.

Like if he get hit and his stick hit opponent face, its a result of opponent action but still a penalty

We dont play basketball where we can create screen if your in position before your opponent... in hockey, pit intentionally your body between your teammate and defender and disallow defender to make his job, its a penalty.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Like if he get hit and his stick hit opponent face, its a result of opponent action but still a penalty

That's actually not always called, and that also still requires you to bring your stick up on your own, so not really the same.

in hockey, pit intentionally your body between your teammate and defender and disallow defender to make his job, its a penalty.

That's not what happened though. The Holl play happens constantly in hockey. In fact, the reason it looked so awkward was because of how much Holl tried to avoid all contract.
I think we've discussed this enough. We're not going to agree. Let's get back to O'Rielly.

 

[thusk]

That's actually not always called, and that also still requires you to bring your stick up on your own, so not really the same.

That's not what happened though. The Holl play happens constantly in hockey. In fact, the reason it looked so awkward was because of how much Holl tried to avoid all contract.
I think we've discussed this enough. We're not going to agree. Let's get back to O'Rielly.

Like highstick in general, if the ref dont see it they dont call it but when they see it they call it and its pretty automatic

No he was able to skate easily between hedman ans cirelli and took decision to go exactly on cirelli lane...he didn't try at all to avoid contact

 

[Dekes For Days]

Like highstick in general, if the ref dont see it they dont call it but when they see it they call it and its pretty automatic

There are multiple high stick situations that are not automatic calls when seen. Putting a stick into your own face is one of them.

No he was able to skate easily between hedman ans cirelli and took decision to go exactly on cirelli lane...he didn't try at all to avoid contact

Holl was on that lane before Cirelli, so if it was anybody's lane, it was his. Holl is also the one that stopped to avoid contact, while Cirelli initiated the contact.
Cirelli could have easily gotten around Holl like Tavares did.

Getting back to the original point, Toronto is very good defensively, and O'Rielly (and Acciari) only makes us better. Adding defensemen isn't the only way to improve that.

 

[Auston Escobar]

Well, this thread went off the rails…

 

[ACC1224]

Well, this thread went off the rails…

Pretty much every thread goes off topic and it's always the same poster being allowed to do so.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Well, this thread went off the rails…

Yes, hopefully we can get back on track now.

The original point still stands - The Leafs are very good defensively, and there are more ways to improve defensively than just adding defensemen. O'Rielly is a selke-caliber defensive forward, and he improves us defensively.

 

[Punished ROR]

ROR has been a mercenary his whole career. It would be pretty surprising to see any type of sizable discount given.

Not really. He really only battled Colorado’s front office, who tried to keep him under their “Duchene cap,“ despite ROR clearly being the better player.

After Buffalo acquired him, ROR signed his current long term contract within days. A true “mercenary” would’ve waited the year to reach UFA. ROR had his ask and Murray met it, thus he signed.

 

[Cleetus]

Not really. He really only battled Colorado’s front office, who tried to keep him under their “Duchene cap,“ despite ROR clearly being the better player.

After Buffalo acquired him, ROR signed his current long term contract within days. A true “mercenary” would’ve waited the year to reach UFA. ROR had his ask and Murray met it, thus he signed.

everything about this poster is elite,.the post. the name, the Avatar, and this is just Gold " a hero denied by hortons"

 

[TakeTheBody]

If you're undecided you lack testicular fortitude. Leafs win the Cup GREAT TRADE!!! Lose in round 1. I knew this trade sucked. Gutless.

 

[LeafLoyalist]

There are multiple high stick situations that are not automatic calls when seen. Putting a stick into your own face is one of them.

Holl was on that lane before Cirelli, so if it was anybody's lane, it was his. Holl is also the one that stopped to avoid contact, while Cirelli initiated the contact.
Cirelli could have easily gotten around Holl like Tavares did.

Getting back to the original point, Toronto is very good defensively, and O'Rielly (and Acciari) only makes us better. Adding defensemen isn't the only way to improve that.

Cirelli was shoulder to shoulder with Tavares, Holl PURPOSELY AND INTENTINALLY

 

[justashadowof]

Like the trade now and in the future regardless of the outcome of the playoff season. The team has to take a proper run at it while it can. There's only one more year for the Big Four after this season.

I'm still surprised by the heft of the price in this trade.

 

[notbias]

It was a 1v1 battle tavares vs cirelli and holl was waiting for a pass who never come and put himself between jt and cirelli and disallowed cirelli to follow tavares.. thats 100% interference

No one denies the interference... everyone questions why that never gets called in other games.

The reffing was trash.

The first few games when the Leafs had tough guys in, it was called so tight.

The Leafs take out their tough guys and the game gets called like playoffs again, except for those calls mentioned above, conveniently they decided to call the game super tight in critical situations.