O’Reilly Trade Poll

[hfman]

Good player, seems like a good guy as well, we aren’t beating Boston so we wasted more assets to win maybe a single round.

this is true also.

can't help but realise that the Leafs are never ever going to go deep with this defense and the goalie situation. Not a chance. They have between now and trade deadline to figure out something there. And if not then everyone needs to wake up and see the situation for what it really is. No defense, no goalie. Equals no playoff wins. This is the hard truth.

 

[Dekes For Days]

can't help but realise that the Leafs are never ever going to go deep with this defense and the goalie situation. Not a chance. They have between now and trade deadline to figure out something there. And if not then everyone needs to wake up and see the situation for what it really is. No defense, no goalie. Equals no playoff wins. This is the hard truth.

Leafs are one of the best defensive teams in the league.
There are only about a half-dozen goalies in this league that are a tier above ours, and none are available.
This team is fully capable of going deep and winning as is.

 

[ACC1224]

this is true also.

can't help but realise that the Leafs are never ever going to go deep with this defense and the goalie situation. Not a chance. They have between now and trade deadline to figure out something there. And if not then everyone needs to wake up and see the situation for what it really is. No defense, no goalie. Equals no playoff wins. This is the hard truth.

Starting to lean that way on the goalies as well.

 

[ToneDog]

this is true also.

can't help but realise that the Leafs are never ever going to go deep with this defense and the goalie situation. Not a chance. They have between now and trade deadline to figure out something there. And if not then everyone needs to wake up and see the situation for what it really is. No defense, no goalie. Equals no playoff wins. This is the hard truth.

Said it before, starring at Tampa and Boston it would be risky to move major assets for this team. I only see the ROR trade as good if they can resign him and Acciari and they get by Tampa. I don't mind adding to the D if I can move a pending UFA(s) and a Sandin or Lily if the dman coming back is too good to pass up. Other than that, I'd roll with what we got.

 

[thusk]

this is true also.

can't help but realise that the Leafs are never ever going to go deep with this defense and the goalie situation. Not a chance. They have between now and trade deadline to figure out something there. And if not then everyone needs to wake up and see the situation for what it really is. No defense, no goalie. Equals no playoff wins. This is the hard truth.

Leafs are one of the best defensive teams in the league.
There are only about a half-dozen goalies in this league that are a tier above ours, and none are available.
This team is fully capable of going deep and winning as is.

Tampa outside of sergachev and hedman, its pretty weak... they was playing with Bogosian on top pair and with cole and perbix like a pretty weak 3rd pair

But toronto is not of best defensive team in the NHL, they've got great number because they are one of best possession team in the league. If you didn't have to defend as much, sure at the end thats will affect the number of goal, scoring chance... allowed ...but its not a result of how they played as a team defensivly, but also how they was playing offensivly ( like reducing number of point shot, to keep the puck as much than you can...

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I was talking about wanting him here in December so you know where I stand.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Tampa outside of sergachev and hedman, its pretty weak... they was playing with Bogosian on top pair and with cole and perbix like a pretty weak 3rd pair

Even Hedman is experiencing some struggles this year after Tampa moved out their matchup defenseman.

But toronto is not of best defensive team in the NHL, they've got great number because they are one of best possession team in the league. If you didn't have to defend as much, sure at the end thats will affect the number of goal, scoring chance... allowed ...but its not a result of how they played as a team defensivly, but also how they was playing offensivly ( like reducing number of point shot, to keep the puck as much than you can...

There are a number of different ways to get good defensive results, but what really matters in the end is getting good defensive results, not how.
That said, our in-zone defensive play also tends to get heavily underrated. We're really good at blocking off lanes, pushing players to the outside, stealing the puck, getting sticks in on shots, breaking out of the zone, etc. We may not be the best in the league in the top end of our defense, but our defensive depth is excellent, our two best forwards are selke-calibre (and we just added O'Reilly on top), and most of our forward lineup is full of high-end defensive players.

 

[thusk]

Even Hedman is experiencing some struggles this year after Tampa moved out their matchup defenseman.

There are a number of different ways to get good defensive results, but what really matters in the end is getting good defensive results, not how.
That said, our in-zone defensive play also tends to get heavily underrated. We're really good at blocking off lanes, pushing players to the outside, stealing the puck, getting sticks in on shots, breaking out of the zone, etc. We may not be the best in the league in the top end of our defense, but our defensive depth is excellent, our two best forwards are selke-calibre (and we just added O'Reilly on top), and most of our forward lineup is full of high-end defensive players.

We dont care about regular season stats, they will not face team like anaheim, montreal, philly or whatever against who its still pretty easy to keep the possession like you want... they will face tampa round 1 and boston round 2 if they find a way to win it... so lack of good defensive D will be expose for sure

The question is can they overcome it with the offenive group without losing too much of ability offensivly ( exemple like they did against columbus in 2020)

 

[Dekes For Days]

We dont care about regular season stats, they will not face team like anaheim, montreal, philly or whatever

We had better defensive results than Tampa in the playoffs last year, we've had better defensive results than Tampa this year, and we've had better defensive results than Tampa (and better defensive results than our seasonal average against all teams) through our 2 games against Tampa this season.

I don't know why it's so hard for some people to accept that we're good defensively.

 

[29Potvin]

Must be nice that Boston gets a bye to the second round. Sure they are having a great year but looking at the Wildcard teams at this moment it gives me Tampa Vs Jackets vibes

 

[Dekes For Days]

Must be nice that Boston gets a bye to the second round.

Yeah, it is pretty funny that everybody has already concluded that we're playing Boston if we get to the 2nd round.
They're certainly favourites to get there, but nothing is guaranteed in hockey.

 

[GoonieFace]

Dubas makes me sick to my stomach, but this is a trade that needed to be done. Hopefully he doesn’t stop here. This team has the capability of going far, there is no juggernaut, not even Boston

 

[thusk]

We had better defensive results than Tampa in the playoffs last year, we've had better defensive results than Tampa this year, and we've had better defensive results than Tampa (and better defensive results than our seasonal average against all teams) through our 2 games against Tampa this season.

I don't know why it's so hard for some people to accept that we're good defensively.

Better result...

Do you think leafs was better because they won 5-0 unstead of 5-3 with 2 goal allowed in the last 8-9 minutes when tampa already had a 4 goal lead and the game was already over?

Or because they was able to scored 2 late goal game 4 same way than game 2?

They was even but if both team are even vasilevskiy vs campbell/ samsonov/ murray... leafs are in trouble

 

[ACC1224]

Must be nice that Boston gets a bye to the second round. Sure they are having a great year but looking at the Wildcard teams at this moment it gives me Tampa Vs Jackets vibes

Would you bet against them?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Better result...
Do you think leafs was better because they won 5-0 unstead of 5-3 with 2 goal allowed in the last 8-9 minutes when tampa already had a 4 goal lead and the game was already over?
Or because they was able to scored 2 late goal game 4 same way than game 2?
They was even but if both team are even vasilevskiy vs campbell/ samsonov/ murray... leafs are in trouble

I think the Leafs had better defensive results in the series because the Leafs had better defensive results in the series.
They also had more goals, though that's a different discussion.
Their skaters weren't even. Toronto had the superior group of skaters. Tampa evened that out with Vasilevsky and some horrible calls in their favour in critical moments.
This season, especially post-trade, the gap in our skaters has slightly grown, while the gap in our goalies has lessened.
It should be a close series, and unfortunately, thanks to Bettman's stupid system, one of the best teams in the league will be out in the first round.

 

[29Potvin]

Would you bet against them?

depending on who they play I would

 

[thusk]

I think the Leafs had better defensive results in the series because the Leafs had better defensive results in the series.
They also had more goals, though that's a different discussion.
Their skaters weren't even. Toronto had the superior group of skaters. Tampa evened that out with Vasilevsky and some horrible calls in their favour in critical moments.
This season, especially post-trade, the gap in our skaters has slightly grown, while the gap in our goalies has lessened.
It should be a close series, and unfortunately, thanks to Bettman's stupid system, one of the best teams in the league will be out in the first round.

Goal on blowout one side game 1 to 4
Toronto 17 expected goal 13.82
Tampa 13 expected goal 12.56

Goal on key close game 5 to 7
Toronto 8 expected goal 9.04
Tampa 9 expected goal 9.64



Its not my definition of better result...

Toronto lost because of ref call
Toronto pp last 3 game 10
Tampa pp last 3 game 10

better group of skater, for sure the reason why tampa reach 3 time in a row stanley cup and won it twice vs toronto who didn't won anything is because leafs having a better group of skater...

 

[Dekes For Days]

Goal on blowout one side game 1 to 4
Toronto 17 expected goal 13.82
Tampa 13 expected goal 12.56

Goal on key close game 5 to 7
Toronto 8 expected goal 9.04
Tampa 9 expected goal 9.64

I'm not sure why you're cherry picking specific games, but for the record, the Leafs had the better expected goals overall, in 2 of the 3 final games of the series, and through games 5-7 in their entirety. The simple fact is that the Leaf's skaters were better, Tampa's goalie was better, and the refs saved Tampa's life on bad calls in both game 6 and 7.

Toronto lost because of ref call
Toronto pp last 3 game 10
Tampa pp last 3 game 10

They got handed a 5 on 3 on two missed calls while minutes away from elimination, and then got a goal against waived off on a missed call in game 7. I don't really care how many PPs each team got through the last 3 games. The idea that PPs are supposed to be even is part of the problem in the first place, and a 5 on 3 is certainly not equal to two individual calls.

for sure the reason why tampa reach 3 time in a row stanley cup and won it twice vs toronto who didn't won anything is because leafs having a better group of skater...

The biggest difference between us and Tampa, and the biggest reason Tampa made the Cup finals 3 times in a row, has been Vasilevsky. In 2019-2020 and 2020-2021, Tampa likely had the better group of skaters as well. Last year, we had the better group of skaters. This year, we likely will again, and it will come down to goaltending.

 

[ACC1224]

depending on who they play I would

Guessing you're referring to the Rangers?

 

[thusk]

I'm not sure why you're cherry picking specific games, but for the record, the Leafs had the better expected goals overall, in 2 of the 3 final games of the series, and through games 5-7 in their entirety. The simple fact is that the Leaf's skaters were better, Tampa's goalie was better, and the refs saved Tampa's life on bad calls in both game 6 and 7.

They got handed a 5 on 3 on two missed calls while minutes away from elimination, and then got a goal against waived off on a missed call in game 7. I don't really care how many PPs each team got through the last 3 games. The idea that PPs are supposed to be even is part of the problem in the first place, and a 5 on 3 is certainly not equal to two individual calls.

The biggest difference between us and Tampa, and the biggest reason Tampa made the Cup finals 3 times in a row, has been Vasilevsky. In 2019-2020 and 2020-2021, Tampa likely had the better group of skaters as well. Last year, we had the better group of skaters. This year, we likely will again, and it will come down to goaltending.

Penalty on kampf... yes it was a mistake, but the penalty on kerfoot who gave the 5v3 was an easy call

And tavares goal waived was a clear interference without any doubt, the fact tavares scored on that play doesn't change the fact than it was a penalty, yes i know it was unfortunate and suck but dont change anything

Game 7 leafs had the 1st pp and had a chance to put pressure on tampa, they failed... got a pp right after palat goal but missed to convert it... they got a rare pp on 3rd period and they missed their chance, probably a biggest reason why they lost unstead of blaming ref

3.27 expected goal vs 3.17... its pretty even like i said

And no leafs didn't had 2 of 3 best expected goal last 3... it was tampa
Game 5 toronto 2.74 tampa 3,16
game 6 toronto 3.26 tampa 3.53
game 7 toronto 3.04 tampa 2.95

 

[ToneDog]

I'm not sure why you're cherry picking specific games, but for the record, the Leafs had the better expected goals overall, in 2 of the 3 final games of the series, and through games 5-7 in their entirety. The simple fact is that the Leaf's skaters were better, Tampa's goalie was better, and the refs saved Tampa's life on bad calls in both game 6 and 7.

They got handed a 5 on 3 on two missed calls while minutes away from elimination, and then got a goal against waived off on a missed call in game 7. I don't really care how many PPs each team got through the last 3 games. The idea that PPs are supposed to be even is part of the problem in the first place, and a 5 on 3 is certainly not equal to two individual calls.

The biggest difference between us and Tampa, and the biggest reason Tampa made the Cup finals 3 times in a row, has been Vasilevsky. In 2019-2020 and 2020-2021, Tampa likely had the better group of skaters as well. Last year, we had the better group of skaters. This year, we likely will again, and it will come down to goaltending.

If it does, we will lose. Like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

Dubas paid half the cap to 4 forwards. Time for them to put on their big boy pants and get it done. Not another goalie you got off the shelf at Walmart or one that a poor team is paying to play for their rival.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Penalty on kampf... yes it was a mistake, but the penalty on kerfoot who gave the 5v3 was an easy call
And tavares goal waived was a clear interference without any doubt, the fact tavares scored on that play doesn't change the fact than it was a penalty

Hedman brought Kerfoot's stick into his own face. A bad call at a normal time. A horrific call with minutes left in an elimination game that gives a team an extended 5 on 3 because you screwed up the previous call.
The Tavares goal is a goal every time. Holl did not interfere with the player. He is entitled to that space, and he literally fell down trying to avoid any contact. It didn't have any impact on the eventual goal, and similar occurrences happen quite often. To call that off in a game 7 one goal game (at home no less) is beyond mind-boggling.

3.27 expected goal vs 3.17... its pretty even like i said

Expected goals were 25.6 to 22.37 in Toronto's favour. Their skaters performed better. Tampa received the better goaltending.

And no leafs didn't had 2 of 3 best expected goal last 3...

Yes they did. They had the better expected goals in games 5 and 7. And the only reason Tampa had better expected goals in game 6 was the 5 on 3 PP.
And again, you can't just ignore parts of the series that disprove your argument anyway.

 

[Dekes For Days]

If it does, we will lose.

Not necessarily. Vasilevsky is arguably the best goaltender in the game, but we just need our goalie (both of whom are improvements on Campbell) to be close enough to Vasilevsky to prevent them from overcoming the skater gap.

 

[thusk]

Hedman brought Kerfoot's stick into his own face. A bad call at a normal time. A horrific call with minutes left in an elimination game that gives a team an extended 5 on 3 because you screwed up the previous call.
The Tavares goal is a goal every time. Holl did not interfere with the player. He is entitled to that space, and he literally fell down trying to avoid any contact. It didn't have any impact on the eventual goal, and similar occurrences happen quite often. To call that off in a game 7 one goal game (at home no less) is beyond mind-boggling.

Expected goals were 25.6 to 22.37 in Toronto's favour. Their skaters performed better. Tampa received the better goaltending.

Yes they did. They had the better expected goals in games 5 and 7. And the only reason Tampa had better expected goals in game 6 was the 5 on 3 PP.
And again, you can't just ignore parts of the series that disprove your argument anyway.

Kerfoot stick is 100% kerfoot responsabilities, so yes it was the right call an a pretty easy penalty to call...

Cut being your teammate to create a screen is an interference. He didn't try to avoid any contact with tampa player

Expected goal was 22.86 to 22.2... i dont know where you take your stats...

 

[ACC1224]

Kerfoot stick is 100% kerfoot responsabilities, so yes it was the right call an a pretty easy penalty to call...

Cut being your teammate to create a screen is an interference. He didn't try to avoid any contact with tampa player

Expected goal was 22.86 to 22.2... i dont know where you take your stats...

Those are both true and pretty tough to argue otherwise.

Blaming the Refs is just another in a long line of excuses for failure. Amusing but tiresome.