Proposal: NYR - SJ again

[eco's bones]

As a Rangers fan I don't think I'd mind for this to happen.....though we'd have to make some cap space. Walman's a pretty decent D and I don't know if I'd value Othmann over Bystedt at all. Filip is a pretty damn good prospect. Honestly I think we would probably have to add.

I'll add this Othmann had a very good first year pro. But a caveat for me as far as his AHL production is too much came on the power play and not enough at even strength. I also don't think he was as close to making the Rangers as some might think. I don't see him having much impact as a 4th line guy. I prefer all of Carrick, Edstrom, Brodzinski, Vesey and even Rempe (who was just sent down) over him as a 4th liner......and probably Berard too. The Rangers 3rd line have been playing fantastic so there really is no spot for him now and barring injury(ies) for this year. I liked Berard's training camp better. That doesn't mean that Brennan isn't a very good prospect but he needs to improve some more. He's a very young player though. Another issue is he's a natural LW on a team deep in LW's.

 

[SML2]

No thanks from this Sharks fan perspective.
Othman besides being a LW has character flaws. Jones has proven he barely belongs playing in the NHL.

Please elaborate on Othmann. I have been following him since his draft year and have heard no such thing.

Is KAndre Miller available? I think he's RFA soon right? Shouldve drafted him over Merkley sighhhh

Now we're talking. I would pull Miller out of town on a Rikshaw if we could get him out of town before he signs a new overpaid deal.

 

[Grinner]

Please elaborate on Othmann. I have been following him since his draft year and have heard no such thing.


Now we're talking. I would pull Miller out of town on a Rikshaw if we could get him out of town before he signs a new overpaid deal.

Fights with teammates
Interactions with fans in the stands

 

[BillR10]

Issue here is the OP doesn't take the sharks needs into account at all. #1 Sharks do not need cap space. #2 The sharks system depth strength currently is in LW and LHD. That is why sharks fans are against the offer. Sharks needs are top 4 potential RHD and right handed top 6 potential wingers. When it comes to what the sharks are giving up, Walman is one of the pieces that could fetch the sharks a nice piece at this or next deadline and Bystedt is positioned to be the sharks 3C of the future. Can't see the sharks moving those pieces to add to the part of the prospect pool that's already full of high potential talent.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

As others have said the Sharks don't need cap space right now. We have no big extensions coming for at least 2 years. Eklund being the only one in 2 years. In addition more bad/dead money will be coming off the books for the next 3 years. Burns, Vlassic, Granlund, Couture, Karlsson and Jones will all be coming off and nowhere near that amount of money will be resigning to replace it If anything we will start having trouble reaching the floor in a couple years.

What the Sharks are looking for now is significant futures in the form of young players, picks and prospects. We would probably be willing to take on cap to acquire those. If you would like a deal. I would suggest starting there.

The guy is offering our 2nd and 4th best prospects? Does that not fit the form of "young players and prospects"?

 

[bernmeister]

I am not going to speak on the value of this trade but I don't understand your reasoning for the benefits of the trade to the Sharks of clearing out salary. We don't really need any salary cap space right now or any time in the future. Walman has been our best defenseman so far and we already have more than enough LD prospects in the pipeline. We may move Walman at the deadline for a pick if the team is comfortable with how Mukhamadullin progresses.

also not addressing specific assets in OP
believe OP was speaking generically, i.e., it never hurts to bank cap space in a hard cap league.
Obv SJ does not need space at present

Is KAndre Miller available? I think he's RFA soon right? Shouldve drafted him over Merkley sighhhh

No he's not for 99% of scenarios

yeah he's available, Walman bystedt musty and shak

You're entitled to yr opinion.
That said, he is not, rare exception to the rule notwithstanding

absurdly low and illogical return for Othmann for NYR,
Othmann is what they (and most teams) need a young high-potential sniper

if they decide it's a priority, , they can add a depth D at much much lower cost
but right now NYR are so deep on D they waived their Vet #8D today

This ^

what did you expect from a fan of a team who thinks Lafreniere isn't an embarrasing bust?

LaF ACTUALLY IS one of the best 5x5 Fs in the league.
Sure, took coupla seasons to overcome initial skating limitations
BUT
dat wuz den an dis is now

Current NYR have Zib, Troch and Chytil at C, near-term few years are solid

NYR C pipeline has McConnell-Barker, and especially Noah Laba who has outperformed expectations both NCAA seasons, and also few long shots

no disrespect in any way to Walman's capabilities
but makes >$3+, and he can walk away in 18 months
not worth such a price to this team

This ^ x 2
also shout out kudos, one of our best posters!

Except, that's not true. Jones is actually a good player. He's not waiver wire trash. He'd stick on your team, and wouldn't look back. The Rangers have such a deep defense. A small guy that isn't like an Adam Fox small guy has such a tough route towards making it with the Rangers. It is what it is, but don't mistake that for that Jones is a borderline NHL'er.

Jones is short at 5'10 but has good skating skills.
Weak one area, a + in another
His strength, we have the original article in Fox
nice to have depth, but makes sense to repurpose his value
He's not borderline and lefty shot who plays either side
which pairing is based on which is most suitable partner
he is complementary match with a clear the crease type

Is NYR really that deep defensively tho?

You played Chad Ruhwedel like 2 games ago (over Zac Jones)

pls see above

 

[Gecklund]

The guy is offering our 2nd and 4th best prospects? Does that not fit the form of "young players and prospects"?

I’m going to be honest. Both of those guys are much closer to 10th best than 2nd best in the Sharks system. For reference Bystedt was the Sharks 8th best prospect. So yes they fit that definition but combine that they aren’t can’t miss prospects/young players with the fact they both play among our deepest positions in the system, no thanks.

You could make the argument that Othmann would be of interest but I’d prefer Bystedt who I see as like a Nick Bonino (it’s early I’m sure there’s better examples but it’s 7:15 on a Friday and I’m just trying to get to the weekend) type 3C. Basically long term lock down guy there. Then you’re also taking our number 1D and so now we have to rush our top d prospects or put them in positions that they aren’t necessarily ready for. This one really just doesn’t make sense from any angle for SJ.

Disclaimer: I said Walman is OUR 1D not that he is a 1D.

 

[noncents]

I’m going to be honest. Both of those guys are much closer to 10th best than 2nd best in the Sharks system. For reference Bystedt was the Sharks 8th best prospect. So yes they fit that definition but combine that they aren’t can’t miss prospects/young players with the fact they both play among our deepest positions in the system, no thanks.

You could make the argument that Othmann would be of interest but I’d prefer Bystedt who I see as like a Nick Bonino (it’s early I’m sure there’s better examples but it’s 7:15 on a Friday and I’m just trying to get to the weekend) type 3C. Basically long term lock down guy there. Then you’re also taking our number 1D and so now we have to rush our top d prospects or put them in positions that they aren’t necessarily ready for. This one really just doesn’t make sense from any angle for SJ.

Disclaimer: I said Walman is OUR 1D not that he is a 1D.

trade aside, i think there's an under appreciation for the fact that othmann projects to be an impact middle 6 scorer because of a borderline elite shit as well as a shitbird edge.

the "character flaw" is a feature, not a bug. he captained his OHL team so definitely not an internal locker room problem

 

[Pinkfloyd]

also not addressing specific assets in OP
believe OP was speaking generically, i.e., it never hurts to bank cap space in a hard cap league.
Obv SJ does not need space at present



No he's not for 99% of scenarios



You're entitled to yr opinion.
That said, he is not, rare exception to the rule notwithstanding



This ^



LaF ACTUALLY IS one of the best 5x5 Fs in the league.
Sure, took coupla seasons to overcome initial skating limitations
BUT
dat wuz den an dis is now



This ^ x 2
also shout out kudos, one of our best posters!




Jones is short at 5'10 but has good skating skills.
Weak one area, a + in another
His strength, we have the original article in Fox
nice to have depth, but makes sense to repurpose his value
He's not borderline and lefty shot who plays either side
which pairing is based on which is most suitable partner
he is complementary match with a clear the crease type



pls see above

So then make a different offer for Walman. I don't think the Sharks are married to getting Othmann or Jones in the return. Maybe there's something where we take Lindgren back with a draft pick for Walman.

 

[Gecklund]

trade aside, i think there's an under appreciation for the fact that othmann projects to be an impact middle 6 scorer because of a borderline elite shit as well as a shitbird edge.

the "character flaw" is a feature, not a bug. he captained his OHL team so definitely not an internal locker room problem

Oh I personally don’t think he has a character flaw. Basically my opinion is that I think Bystedt and Othmann are probably similarly valued. I’d prefer to one keep the guy we know and two keep the more valuable position. Bystedt can also play the wing as shown in the WJC where he played with Leo Carlsson. But yeah I mean this isn’t a slight at all on Othmann I just personally prefer Bystedt.

 

[dgibb10]

Chad Ruhwedel was given a game by the coach because he didn't want the 7th defenseman to sit for too long without playing. To that point Jones had played every game. Then again, Lindgren was set to come back, so someone had to lose their lineup spot anyway. I know Jones did, but I think he's better than Mancini right now. Coach prefers the much taller player. Shocking.

Anyway, if they preferred Ruhwedel to Jones, they could've easily waived Jones.

The fact that coaches don't like a player because he's short means other teams are not going to value him as highly.

Whether its fair or not is another story.

 

[noncents]

The fact that coaches don't like a player because he's short means other teams are not going to value him as highly.

Whether its fair or not is another story.

and to me there's validity in saying "i wouldn't want my team to pay what the player is worth, just what the player's value is as determined by his coach and FO"

what jones' value is, is less than he's worth. he's undervalued.

 

[bernmeister]

So then make a different offer for Walman. I don't think the Sharks are married to getting Othmann or Jones in the return. Maybe there's something where we take Lindgren back with a draft pick for Walman.

Respect for OP floating the ?, like anyone else

Not sure Walman is best fit, and SJ should hold or trade him as they are more comfortable

bold in a vacuum not unreasonable, BUT Lindgren has positive value still. Not what it once was and down signif to wear + tear accumulation, but I can see something around
Lindy + two Ranger 3rds
for
2 2nds

if that is correct, NY should go that way

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Respect for OP floating the ?, like anyone else

Not sure Walman is best fit, and SJ should hold or trade him as they are more comfortable

bold in a vacuum not unreasonable, BUT Lindgren has positive value still. Not what it once was and down signif to wear + tear accumulation, but I can see something around
Lindy + two Ranger 3rds
for
2 2nds

if that is correct, NY should go that way

Lindgren, in a vacuum, doesn't have positive value to the Sharks and have no interest in him. He was a cap dump return example for Walman because the Rangers don't have the cap space to trade for Walman on his own. I can't imagine the Sharks would be the one to give you the higher valued draft picks to take him on. You'd be paying us the better picks for those picks in this scenario because we'd be taking cap off your hands for nothing.

 

[Gecklund]

Lindgren, in a vacuum, doesn't have positive value to the Sharks and have no interest in him. He was a cap dump return example for Walman because the Rangers don't have the cap space to trade for Walman on his own. I can't imagine the Sharks would be the one to give you the higher valued draft picks to take him on. You'd be paying us the better picks for those picks in this scenario because we'd be taking cap off your hands for nothing.

What are you talking about? NYR doesn’t have any cap dumps! Goodrow had positive value to this guy last year so feel like you’re wasting your time barking up this tree.

 

[bernmeister]

Lindgren, in a vacuum, doesn't have positive value to the Sharks and have no interest in him. He was a cap dump return example for Walman because the Rangers don't have the cap space to trade for Walman on his own. I can't imagine the Sharks would be the one to give you the higher valued draft picks to take him on. You'd be paying us the better picks for those picks in this scenario because we'd be taking cap off your hands for nothing.

I did not say Lindy to SJ
"in a vacuum" imo = generic overall

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I did not say Lindy to SJ
"in a vacuum" imo = generic overall

Overall, an expensive 3rd pairing defenseman doesn't have value.

 

[bernmeister]

Overall, an expensive 3rd pairing defenseman doesn't have value.

4.5 expiring guy plays hard is worth upgrading 2 picks one level ea.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

4.5 expiring guy plays hard is worth upgrading 2 picks one level ea.

Those guys are a dime a dozen. I don't think you'll find anyone doing that sort of deal for you but good luck.