Proposal: NYR - SJ again

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't see how this makes sense for SJ. Bystedt is a PPG in the AHL and Walman is a legit 2nd pairing dman that the Sharks desperately need. Zac jones would be a downgrade from Walman and Othmann, at best, would be an even swap with Bystedt.

I think the way you could paint that it is a fair trade for the Sharks is that Othmann-Bystedt is a wash and maybe even a slight edge to Othmann (slightly better pedigree over the years, but nothing huge).

Meanwhile, Walman for Jones is more of a move for fit. Walman is 28. If he’s even for real at this point, it’s probably short lived and for the end of his prime years (the next few). When the Sharks are good, he probably won’t be. Jones probably isn’t as good right now, but has shown he’s a capable bottom pair defenseman, at the very least. He moves the puck well and can run a PP. Rangers have had one of the deepest defenses in the league though and he also has the small bias working against him.

That’s even worse for contending teams because the coaches coach so safe and would sometimes rather just throw a tall guy back there who can’t play because they’re big or something (our last coach Gallant would say this stuff almost verbatim). For a team where he’s not competing with much and his size isn’t going to be scrutinized every last moment (the outlook is more about his age and potential), he could provide a good longterm fit. He’s only just turned 24 last Friday. He could be a solution for the Sharks for 5+ years as a 4-6.

I would suggest it leans a little towards the Rangers, but I don’t think this is something Sharks fans should be up in arms about. There are reasons why it’d make sense.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Nice try. Othmann is a bust.

Based on what?

 

[noncents]

this is where the deal dies.

The Sharks don't need to "clear salary", we're 11 million UNDER the cap.

also, the Sharks aren't trading their de facto best Defenseman and their 5th/6th best prospect for a couple of nobodies.

Yes, I said it, Othmann and Jones are nobodies. If we wanted low ceiling trash prospects there's plenty we can find on the waiver wire.

if othmann is nobody, bystedt is also nobody.

very comparable production in international play, AHL production, and pedigree.

the appeal of othmann, as one guy put it, is that he's an asshole. he plays with and over the edge, and he can play with high-end players and produce at projected top-6 rates. Who else do the sharks have that fits that description?

 

[seroes]

As others have said the Sharks don't need cap space right now. We have no big extensions coming for at least 2 years. Eklund being the only one in 2 years. In addition more bad/dead money will be coming off the books for the next 3 years. Burns, Vlassic, Granlund, Couture, Karlsson and Jones will all be coming off and nowhere near that amount of money will be resigning to replace it If anything we will start having trouble reaching the floor in a couple years.

What the Sharks are looking for now is significant futures in the form of young players, picks and prospects. We would probably be willing to take on cap to acquire those. If you would like a deal. I would suggest starting there.

 

[noncents]

As others have said the Sharks don't need cap space right now. We have no big extensions coming for at least 2 years. Eklund being the only one in 2 years. In addition more bad/dead money will be coming off the books for the next 3 years. Burns, Vlassic, Granlund, Couture, Karlsson and Jones will all be coming off and nowhere near that amount of money will be resigning to replace it If anything we will start having trouble reaching the floor in a couple years.

What the Sharks are looking for now is significant futures in the form of young players, picks and prospects. We would probably be willing to take on cap to acquire those. If you would like a deal. I would suggest starting there.

bruh othmann and jones are young players. if you want salary sure take ryan lindgren

 

[Alluckks]

Is KAndre Miller available? I think he's RFA soon right? Shouldve drafted him over Merkley sighhhh

Currently playing on the top pair with Fox that is graded out as one of the strongest pairs in the NHL

 

[Jared Dunn]

Sharks don't have all that many legit NHL players and should probably hang on to Walman until at least next year unless they get a stupid offer imo. That is definitely not what this is

 

[cwede]

absurdly low and illogical return for Othmann for NYR,
Othmann is what they (and most teams) need a young high-potential sniper

if they decide it's a priority, , they can add a depth D at much much lower cost
but right now NYR are so deep on D they waived their Vet #8D today

 

[Gecklund]

this feels terrible for both teams somehow. Congrats OP.

 

[dgibb10]

I think the way you could paint that it is a fair trade for the Sharks is that Othmann-Bystedt is a wash and maybe even a slight edge to Othmann (slightly better pedigree over the years, but nothing huge).

Meanwhile, Walman for Jones is more of a move for fit. Walman is 28. If he’s even for real at this point, it’s probably short lived and for the end of his prime years (the next few). When the Sharks are good, he probably won’t be. Jones probably isn’t as good right now, but has shown he’s a capable bottom pair defenseman, at the very least. He moves the puck well and can run a PP. Rangers have had one of the deepest defenses in the league though and he also has the small bias working against him.

That’s even worse for contending teams because the coaches coach so safe and would sometimes rather just throw a tall guy back there who can’t play because they’re big or something (our last coach Gallant would say this stuff almost verbatim). For a team where he’s not competing with much and his size isn’t going to be scrutinized every last moment (the outlook is more about his age and potential), he could provide a good longterm fit. He’s only just turned 24 last Friday. He could be a solution for the Sharks for 5+ years as a 4-6.

I would suggest it leans a little towards the Rangers, but I don’t think this is something Sharks fans should be up in arms about. There are reasons why it’d make sense.

The problem is San Jose can find a Zac Jones anywhere.

Sure he's younger, and sure, SJS should go younger, but that doesn't mean throwing away value in the process.

If SJS wants a Zac Jones type depth dman in the 23 year old age range they can find one easily, as shown by the Calen Addison trade or getting Nikita Okhotiuk as a throw in.

And there will be "well shit we're gonna have to waive this 23 year old so might as well get a 6th for him" opportunities out there for SJS if they want them.

 

[Gecklund]

The problem is San Jose can find a Zac Jones anywhere.

Sure he's younger, and sure, SJS should go younger, but that doesn't mean throwing away value in the process.

If SJS wants a Zac Jones type depth dman in the 23 year old age range they can find one easily, as shown by the Calen Addison trade or getting Nikita Okhotiuk as a throw in.

And there will be "well shit we're gonna have to waive this 23 year old so might as well get a 6th for him" opportunities out there for SJS if they want them.

I mean I will say that I think you’re underrating Zac Jones. He is not Addison and he is not Okhotiuk. He is an NHL player on most teams. With all that said, he’s not as good as Walman right now and plays the position the sharks are deepest at. Not super interested in him.

 

[dgibb10]

I mean I will say that I think you’re underrating Zac Jones. He is not Addison and he is not Okhotiuk. He is an NHL player on most teams. With all that said, he’s not as good as Walman right now and plays the position the sharks are deepest at. Not super interested in him.

So is Okhotiuk.

Both would fall into a 7D type role that you don't want to lose to waivers but you also don't feel too great about playing. And if it means anything Okhotiuk can punch faces.

I'd put them all in that range of "hopefully they can become decent bottom pairing guys" tier of that 2019 draft along with Struble, Okhotiuk, Bolduc, and Thrun

Guys that are great to have when they're waivers exempt as extra depth, but not so much when they lose it.

 

[noncents]

absurdly low and illogical return for Othmann for NYR,
Othmann is what they (and most teams) need a young high-potential sniper

if they decide it's a priority, , they can add a depth D at much much lower cost
but right now NYR are so deep on D they waived their Vet #8D today

to me this take underrates both walman as well as bystedt as a real C prospect, which the rangers don't really have.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

So is Okhotiuk.

Both would fall into a 7D type role that you don't want to lose to waivers but you also don't feel too great about playing. And if it means anything Okhotiuk can punch faces.

I'd put them all in that range of "hopefully they can become decent bottom pairing guys" tier of that 2019 draft along with Struble, Okhotiuk, Bolduc, and Thrun

Guys that are great to have when they're waivers exempt as extra depth, but not so much when they lose it.

I think Jones is a little better than waiver wire trash. It might not be that much, but I don’t think he’s the type of player that will cycle through a lot of teams over a short amount of time. He’s a player who needs one chance on a team that doesn’t have as much depth as the Rangers because he’s the type of player that NHL coaches are easily biased against and will literally just take out of the lineup at a moments due to their size while overlooking the faults of someone taller if they have options. If a team gives him an actual run of like half a season because they are rebuilding and can try stuff, I’m convinced he’s not coming out of the lineup anytime soon because the coach won’t be able to pull that type of crap that you know they’re desperate for due to the NHL coach groupthink of preferring big defensemen.

 

[dgibb10]

I think Jones is a little better than waiver wire trash. It might not be that much, but I don’t think he’s the type of player that will cycle through a lot of teams over a short amount of time. He’s a player who needs a chance on a team that doesn’t have as much depth as the Rangers because he’s the type of player that NHL coaches are easily biased against and will literally just take out of the lineup at a moments due to their size while overlooking the faults of someone taller. If a team gives him an actual run of like half a season, I’m convinced he’s not coming out of the lineup anytime soon because the coach won’t be able to use the size bias against him while claiming he’s young and inexperienced.

He's good enough and young enough that you hate to lose him on waivers, but not a guy you want to be playing consistent minutes too as a contender. I would have loved to keep Okhotiuk in NJD, but unfortunately there was not space on the squad, he would have been claimed off waivers when his exemption ran out, and so he had to be moved.

They, if moved, tend to be more throw in pieces that the bad teams will take a shot on by giving him minutes the good teams can't afford to.

 

[Gecklund]

So is Okhotiuk.

Both would fall into a 7D type role that you don't want to lose to waivers but you also don't feel too great about playing. And if it means anything Okhotiuk can punch faces.

I'd put them all in that range of "hopefully they can become decent bottom pairing guys" tier of that 2019 draft along with Struble, Okhotiuk, Bolduc, and Thrun

Guys that are great to have when they're waivers exempt as extra depth, but not so much when they lose it.

I mean Okhotiuk was an NHL dman because he was on the Sharks. Jones is playing on the third pair for a Stanley cup contender. Not sure if he still is actually but still. jones is getting at least the same amount of minutes as Okhotiuk did last year which is not much. Difference is in team quality.

 

[dgibb10]

I mean Okhotiuk was an NHL dman because he was on the Sharks. Jones is playing on the third pair for a Stanley cup contender. Not sure if he still is actually but still. jones is getting at least the same amount of minutes as Okhotiuk did last year which is not much. Difference is in team quality.

Who's the competition for that spot?

Ruhwedel and Mancini?

Him being in the lineup only says he's better than those 2 players.

Also, he hasn't even played the last 2 games, so it may not even suggest that anymore, unless there's some injury to him I don't know about

 

[Hodge]

Under what grounds? He was .73PPG in the AHL his first pro season, and 1.33 right now in his second.

Actually, I was criticizing a Sharks fan who was claiming absurd things about our players. Don't try to fit this into your narrative about the trade. This is a separate issue.

He's almost 22 and hasn't been able to grab a top six or even top nine spot on the Rangers. It's probably never going to happen.

 

[Gecklund]

Who's the competition for that spot?

Ruhwedel and Mancini?

Him being in the lineup only says he's better than those 2 players.

Also, he hasn't even played the last 2 games, so it may not even suggest that anymore, unless there's some injury to him I don't know about

I mean Ruhwedel is better than what the sharks rolled out last year yet Okhotiuk was scratched a ton.

This just feels like you didn’t actually watch Okhotiuk and sure as hell didn’t watch Addison who was a complete and utter liability night in and night out.

 

[Grinner]

So you know Othmann? What's your source for saying that?

Jones isn't tearing it up. I never said he is. You are moving the goalposts to suggest that's what the claim that's the issue at play here. Jones absolutely belongs playing in the NHL. He's proving that without a doubt.

Jones's stats says you're a liar.
The internet

 

[Bizz]

this feels terrible for both teams somehow. Congrats OP.

what did you expect from a fan of a team who thinks Lafreniere isn't an embarrasing bust?

 

[weastern bias]

Forgetting that the Sharks have no need to shed salary, they also don't haven't anything approximating the kind of prospect depth at any position where they should be trading promising players in the system just for the sake of fit or need

The Sharks are happy with Bystedt and his development right now, they chose to keep him over Edstom in the Askarov trade becuse they like what they have in him, he would only be included in a trade for a clear improvement to the roster or prospect pool, he's not a change-of-scenery candidate

 

[Gecklund]

what did you expect from a fan of a team who thinks Lafreniere isn't an embarrasing bust?

Laf right now would be like top 2 or 3 in scoring on our team so

 

[Bizz]

Laf right now would be like top 2 or 3 in scoring on our team so

that isn't saying much.

 

[Gecklund]

that isn't saying much.

I mean if Laf is a big embarrassing bust what is Eklund? Btw the answer is not a big embarrassing bust.