Confirmed with Link: NYR Fire John Davidson and Jeff Gorton

[Machinehead]

Eichel would definitely be the number one red flag.

If Dolan intervened because he wanted the team to perform better in big games and just play a more assertive game overall, I get that.

Trading for a player who literally quits because his team is bad directly contradicts that.

 

[Profet]

With the seismic shift happening today, I could see Torts returning.

 

[Edge]

It’s one thing to lose to the islanders, it’s another to lose the way they did… twice in a row. And it was a common theme throughout the season. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with Dolan’s concerns at all.

Maybe the leash was too short. Maybe they’d have done a bit more over the course of the next 15 months. But some of these losses were truly awful. This team showed no guts and no heart many times throughout the season. That isn’t good enough. That’s not winning hockey.

I don't think anyone thought it was the answer. But I don't think anyone outside of NY thought the result was going to be any different. And that's the difference between making an emotional, reactionary decision (which Dolan is known for) and making an actual strategic decision.

We talk about great players not making great coaches because they can't explain to average guys how to do what came easy for them?

The same thing kind of holds true for sports executives. They don't go in with a fan mentality, which tends to be emotional and reactionary. People who tend to be emotional and reactionary usually don't make great executives. And I think Dolan is a prime example of that.

 

[Bruner4329]

With or without Gorton, this team is at a very weird point with guys like Zibanejad, Strome, and Buch.

What concerns me is a mandate that you have to instantly get better. That's always the goal. No GM ever heads into any situation aiming to get worse (be it short-term or long-term).

But I'm worried about the quest for a magic remedy. Because that's how you end up shipping someone like Kakko to Buffalo for Eichel and start gambling with the mortgage money.

Two of the guys you mention are supposedly our number 1 and 2 centers. I like Zib but he is too inconsistent. As for Strome not a fan never have been and there needs to be a step up in talent for this position. But you are correct as they would have faced this decision with or without Gorton.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

Eichel would definitely be the number one red flag.

If Dolan intervened because he wanted the team to perform better in big games and just play a more assertive game overall, I get that.

Trading for a player who literally quits because his team is bad directly contradicts that.

Guess it depends what we trade. If either of Kak or Laf are moved this offseason, we have major issues.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Tbh, having read the article, I see a lot of what people here were saying.

First, that it was concerning that we looked like not an NHL team in games with high stakes.

Second, the the rebuild is shifting to where pieces have been collected and a direction is now needed that's more short-term. Yes, still long-term, but we need to start moving and know where we're moving to.

Dolan, perhaps, just didn't see that direction from the current leadership, and as Larry said, that doesn't mean taking shortcuts.

It could all go bad, but again, I'm not panicking until I see the moves we make.

Honestly reading that for the most part made me somewhat hopeful. I don't think it's unreasonable demands or anything. And this team lay down like dogs to the Islanders. I blamed Quinn, but is it that much of a stretch to call it an organizational failure? I don't like how much influence Drury had in hiring Quinn though.

 

[duhmetreE]

I will know if I should panic or not based on this offseason.

I agree with both sides somewhat. I agree with how they acquired talent and had a 'developmental' coach. I do not agree to drag it on for 1-2 more years as Broosky alluded to...

We have enough talent to win. We needed some tinkering... and a good NHL coach.

 

[DudMan28]

Why would we want Lemieux back?

Buchnevich showed more pushback in back to back games than Lemeiux ever did.

I can't remember the last time Lemieux even looked at a guy funny.

Trading Lemieux wasn't a purging of toughness, it was getting rid of a player who was failing epically at that.

Lemieux pushed guys after the whistle though. Big premium for that.

Guy was useless.

 

[Machinehead]

Guess it depends what we trade. If either of Kak or Laf are moved this offseason, we have major issues.

I don't see Lafreniere being available for anything realistic, and when I say realistic, I mean something dumb like McDavid that would never happen.

I could see Kakko involved in a blockbuster, but based on Larry's comments, I don't think we're necessarily looking for a blockbuster. I think we're looking for an adjustment.

 

[RangerBoy]

Why did Dolan hire JD? They didn't have the discussion on how JD planned to move the team forward? He left Columbus to run the Rangers and was fired less than 2 years later.

Gorton wasn't perfect. The free agent contracts were abysmal. All of those contracts are usually abysmal. Shattenkirk was awful. Smith hasn't been worth his contract. The Rangers signed both of them to 4 year contracts. One year later the Rangers are rebuilding. Kreider's contract is already a bad contract. Panarin has been a very good player in his first two seasons here. We will see how how Panarin performs in the next 5 years. The TB trade doesn't look so good. Gorton did much more good than bad. Some of his trades were really good. The Rangers will benefit from his work here.

At least, Dolan was smart enough to give Drury both jobs. Why didn't the Rangers give Gorton both jobs two years ago? Dolan hires JD as team president. Dolan fires both Gorton and JD and gives Drury both jobs.

 

[Edge]

Two of the guys you mention are supposedly our number 1 and 2 centers. I like Zib but he is too inconsistent. As for Strome not a fan never have been and there needs to be a step up in talent for this position. But you are correct as they would have faced this decision with or without Gorton.

And I think your concerns are valid. They are real issues this time has and will debate in the near future.

The challenge, as we both know, is that much player movement goes beyond a typical shakeup --- especially if you include Buch in the mix.

So if the mandate is to get better sooner, that's going to be another serious influencer. Because it's going to be hard to move a combined 200+ points (under a normal schedule), seamlessly replace it, and fill the mandate to make the playoffs.

Not impossible mind you. But difficult. And overcoming those difficulties could come with a very high cost.

 

[Machinehead]

Honestly reading that for the most part made me somewhat hopeful. I don't think it's unreasonable demands or anything. And this team lay down like dogs to the Islanders. I blamed Quinn, but is it that much of a stretch to call it an organizational failure? I don't like how much influence Drury had in hiring Quinn though.

As far as I know, Gorton and Drury both like Quinn, but Drury may have been more willing to budge.

I definitely get the feeling that Gorton and JD were given an ultimatum and went against Dolan, just based on the timing.

If the split were amicable, it comes at the end of the season. There was vocal disagreement over some aspect and it may have been Quinn.

 

[Edge]

With the seismic shift happening today, I could see Torts returning.

Doubtful.

I think you're early candidates (for better or worse) are Gallant, Montgomery, Tocchet and maybe Julien.

 

[duhmetreE]

Yes absolutely. While I hate to see JD go this way if he and JG wanted to keep Quinn then maybe this was inevitable because Quinn is not the person for the next step.

thats how I took it.

Brooksy dropped a nugget in his article...

This wasn’t as much about past performance as future intentions. This wasn’t at all about missing the playoffs this year but rather the possibility of missing them again next year and maybe the year after that while following a long and winding rebuild road.

Missing the playoffs for 2 more years; sounds like Quinn.

I nearly agreed with everything Gorton and JD did. They slow played it and that was the issue. They were too 'slow'.

We should 100% be a playoff team next season... If JD and Gorts didn't think so, that's a major issue imo

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I’m more bothered by JD being let go than Gorton.

I don’t think it was time to fire gorton either, but JD just brought a semblance of calm with everything that was going on and obviously bled blue. Him taking the fall for his guy makes it even tougher because that really exemplifies who he is as a person. He deserved better.

sidenote: people bugging that they’re going to trade all the young people need to chill the f*** out. Drury has been here for the entire rebuild process, he wouldn’t have taken this job if the order was to blow it all up.

Young players/prospects are going to be moved. That was happening even if JG and JD stayed.

 

[duhmetreE]

Get Rutherford for help in the front office.

Give Brind'Amour close to 8 figures...

I'll be

 

[Edge]

As far as I know, Gorton and Drury both like Quinn, but Drury may have been more willing to budge.

I definitely get the feeling that Gorton and JD were given an ultimatum and went against Dolan, just based on the timing.

If the split were amicable, it comes at the end of the season. There was vocal disagreement over some aspect and it may have been Quinn.

I entertain that, but then I feel like he's gone too.

If the chaos is caused by not firing the coach, it seems weird to turn around and keep the coach. Especially when someone like Martin would just fill-in.

I don't think Quinn was the sticking point. I just don't get that vibe.

 

[duhmetreE]

All meming aside, I think Vally gets a role, or at least is offered one.

 

[Edge]

Why did Dolan hire JD? They didn't have the discussion on how JD planned to move the team forward? He left Columbus to run the Rangers and was fired less than 2 years later.

Gorton wasn't perfect. The free agent contracts were abysmal. All of those contracts are usually abysmal. Shattenkirk was awful. Smith hasn't been worth his contract. The Rangers signed both of them to 4 year contracts. One year later the Rangers are rebuilding. Kreider's contract is already a bad contract. Panarin has been a very good player in his first two seasons here. We will see how how Panarin performs in the next 5 years. The TB trade doesn't look so good. Gorton did much more good than bad. Some of his trades were really good. The Rangers will benefit from his work here.

At least, Dolan was smart enough to give Drury both jobs. Why didn't the Rangers give Gorton both jobs two years ago? Dolan hires JD as team president. Dolan fires both Gorton and JD and gives Drury both jobs.

Welcome to the mind of Jim Dolan. This is why it's hard to be comfortable with him.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

My gut says no.

I also think what's interesting is that while Dolan is going with the underachieved narrative (which I'm sure some fans agree with), those associated with the team and around the league strongly to feel the opposite --- that this was not a playoff team and the fact that they were even heading into the Islanders game with a chance is actually more noteworthy.

So if Dolan had that disconnect with JD and Gorton, he probably would've had him with 80 percent of the people in the league by my estimation.

That's insane to me. I feel like some people are just biased towards negativity and are also biased by the actual standings. If they made the playoffs you wouldn't have this many "well obviously" takes. Also, people around the league are likely going to be hesitant to criticize other people in the league so "he did a good job" is a more likely take from them than fans (who admittedly would have the opposite bias). They're in the community. How often do employees criticize coworkers publicly?

The only argument I can see is that they're in a tough division. But the team while top heavy has world class talent on it. Since when do you have to have both depth and world class talent to make the playoffs? Half the team makes the playoffs and at least 3/4 of those teams have major flaws. How can you in any way defend a coach that in the last 3 must win games against a good opponent went 0-3 and got outscored 13-1. There is just no rational way to defend that. And the Islanders, if they are a contender are a lower tier contender. What they are is very well coached, something the Rangers are not. The Islanders proceeded to play the Sabres in two important games for them and lose both games allowing 7 goals in the two games. The f***ing Sabres. It wasn't impossible to at least win one game or put up a f***ing fight against the Islanders.

 

[Machinehead]

Call me crazy, but I'm keeping Strome over Zibanejad at this point, if I had to keep one.

Strome will command less, so that's a big one right there.

And I think the problem with Strome is that for a guy putting up 60-65 points, he thinks he's Patrick Kane and plays like it. He does too much with the puck and checks out on defense. But he was always that.

Zibanejad just looks like a f***ing zombie to me. And I liked Zibanejad. I was ready to give him the captaincy which would have been a bad decision, admittedly. This season, he just looks done with hockey. I think head injuries are catching up with him. And I don't care what the Rangers say, he hurt himself going into the boards early in the season.

If I have to make a choice, I'm taking the flawed player who's flawed because he's just always been flawed over the player who declined towards that.

 

[Savant]

Doubtful.

I think you're early candidates (for better or worse) are Gallant, Montgomery, Tocchet and maybe Julien.

Chris Drury has a former teammate with NHL coaching experience who is looking for a job right now if the Rangers want to get really weird.

 

[Doctyl]

Why did Dolan hire JD? They didn't have the discussion on how JD planned to move the team forward? He left Columbus to run the Rangers and was fired less than 2 years later.

Gorton wasn't perfect. The free agent contracts were abysmal. All of those contracts are usually abysmal. Shattenkirk was awful. Smith hasn't been worth his contract. The Rangers signed both of them to 4 year contracts. One year later the Rangers are rebuilding. Kreider's contract is already a bad contract. Panarin has been a very good player in his first two seasons here. We will see how how Panarin performs in the next 5 years. The TB trade doesn't look so good. Gorton did much more good than bad. Some of his trades were really good. The Rangers will benefit from his work here.

At least, Dolan was smart enough to give Drury both jobs. Why didn't the Rangers give Gorton both jobs two years ago? Dolan hires JD as team president. Dolan fires both Gorton and JD and gives Drury both jobs.

lol one of the best UFA signings in the long long history of Rangers UFA signings and its meh hes okay lets see in 5 years. Literally nothing will make people like you happy

 

[SnowblindNYR]

As far as I know, Gorton and Drury both like Quinn, but Drury may have been more willing to budge.

I definitely get the feeling that Gorton and JD were given an ultimatum and went against Dolan, just based on the timing.

If the split were amicable, it comes at the end of the season. There was vocal disagreement over some aspect and it may have been Quinn.

If Gorton and JD wanted to keep Quinn then don't let the door hit you on the way out. I can't fathom anyone thinking that this guy is anything but a bottom of the barrel terrible coach. Those 3 games against the Islanders to add the 3 games against the Hurricanes last year, is peak Quinn.

 

[Edge]

That's insane to me. I feel like some people are just biased towards negativity and are also biased by the actual standings. If they made the playoffs you wouldn't have this many "well obviously" takes. Also, people around the league are likely going to be hesitant to criticize other people in the league so "he did a good job" is a more likely take from them than fans (who admittedly would have the opposite bias). They're in the community. How often do employees criticize coworkers publicly?

The only argument I can see is that they're in a tough division. But the team while top heavy has world class talent on it. Since when do you have to have both depth and world class talent to make the playoffs? Half the team makes the playoffs and at least 3/4 of those teams have major flaws. How can you in any way defend a coach that in the last 3 must win games against a good opponent went 0-3 and got outscored 13-1. There is just no rational way to defend that. And the Islanders, if they are a contender are a lower tier contender. What they are is very well coached, something the Rangers are not. The Islanders proceeded to play the Sabres in two important games for them and lose both games allowing 7 goals in the two games. The f***ing Sabres. It wasn't impossible to at least win one game or put up a f***ing fight against the Islanders.

Look, some of these people are good friends. We talk while having a beer. Even in the news media you hear "Dolan thinks the Rangers" unachieved compared to the phrase "The Rangers are widely seen as having underachieved."

For better or worse that's just not the perception out there. Now, if this was next season, I think those rumblings would be very loud. But it's just not there as a whole, even now.

If anything, I think there's more "Surprised" by the fact that some fans were expecting more. And those reactions aren't new to this situation. It was the same reaction before the season. "Are they really thinking this is a likely outcome?"

And we talked about that before the season even started.