Confirmed with Link: NYR Fire John Davidson and Jeff Gorton

[SnowblindNYR]

That does not make me feel confident. BOLD moves under Dolan: Fleury, Kamensky, Lindros, Bure (give a mulligan on this as he got hurt), Quintal, Lefebrve, Stevens, Ulanov, Kasparaitis, Messier reboot. Bold move that worked: Jagr.

Yeah, that's one I didn't like. I'm hoping Dolan is thinking more the post-lockout Sather who while the team wasn't perfect had a few very solid seasons. The boldest trade by Sather (Nash) didn't work great but we didn't give up anyone on the level of our prospects now.

 

[NJRangers35]

Yeah, that's one I didn't like. I'm hoping Dolan is thinking more the post-lockout Sather who while the team wasn't perfect had a few very solid seasons. The boldest trade by Sather (Nash) didn't work great but we didn't give up anyone on the level of our prospects now.

I’m very surprised by this comment. The Nash trade worked great for us. Went to a cup. Got solid seasons from him. Traded him for a great return and didn’t give up much to get him. Doesn’t get much better than that.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

When I watch Panarin and Zibanejad and Strome all doing magical shit, I'm always sort of left wondering, will we ever be really good while they're still doing this? It's like being a Mets fan and watching deGrom and having the sinking feeling that you're watching a guy waste his prime because the team can't get it's shit together. I'm not saying that the Rangers, it's just my fear.

I definitely feel like this and that's why I can't fathom keeping Quinn. I don't think the kids are developing under him. Though no one will be able to bring them close to their prime next year.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I’m very surprised by this comment. The Nash trade worked great for us. Went to a cup. Got solid seasons from him. Traded him for a great return and didn’t give up much to get him. Doesn’t get much better than that.

Eh, but he wasn't as great of a player as we thought we were getting. I guess in 2013 and 2015 he was up there.

 

[DanielBrassard]

When I watch Panarin and Zibanejad and Strome all doing magical shit, I'm always sort of left wondering, will we ever be really good while they're still doing this? It's like being a Mets fan and watching deGrom and having the sinking feeling that you're watching a guy waste his prime because the team can't get it's shit together. I'm not saying that the Rangers, it's just my fear.

It's certainly fair to think that way, it was one of the risks of bringing in Panarin/Trouba/re-signing Kreider when they did. Meanwhile if you are Dolan, and you just signed Panarin, trade for Trouba, extend him at 8M, re-sign Kreider for 6.5M and your GM and president are still preaching the patience narrative all the way into next season, I can't help but think it's perfectly reasonable for Dolan to want to speed things up.

With the collection of talent this team has added, and (Gorton does deserve credit for that) the plan is what exactly, to finally become playoff contenders 21-22? Quite honestly they should have been that already. What the hell was the purpose of making all of these extravagant moves if we weren't going to compete until 4 years into their contracts? Quite frankly they need to capitalize sooner rather than later.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Gorton was AGM under O'Donnell and became the interim GM during the 2006 off-season when the latter was fired. He really was only the GM because Bruins couldn't hire Chiarelli (who Jacobs loved) to replace O'Donnell until later in the summer. d Gorton initially remained on as AGM but was later fired because Chiarelli wanted to have one of "his" guys in that position.



Yes Sather's name is on the letter, that is true. My fear has always been that he was like "OK Jeff, we'll try it your way" but he had his reservations.



That is the hope but I'm scared of the execution.


Unfortunately Nash was the exact B-type personality that this team did not need at the time. Great talent but he was just happy to be here. I say this because it goes back to execution again. Need a highly skilled player, sought out the wrong one and traded assets to get him.

I still wonder bc I'm just not familiar w/ it all but fair enough

 

[Pidto Files]

I just feels like the car was driving along smoothly and someone just grabbed the wheel and drove it into a ditch

That might have been Dolan thinking GMJG was asleep at the wheel.. Usually where you end up..

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It's certainly fair to think that way, it was one of the risks of bringing in Panarin/Trouba/re-signing Kreider when they did. Meanwhile if you are Dolan, and you just signed Panarin, trade for Trouba, extend him at 8M, re-sign Kreider for 6.5M and your GM and president are still preaching the patience narrative all the way into next season, I can't help but think it's perfectly reasonable for Dolan to want to speed things up.

With the collection of talent this team has added, and (Gorton does deserve credit for that) the plan is what exactly, to finally become playoff contenders 21-22? Quite honestly they should have been that already. What the hell was the purpose of making all of these extravagant moves if we weren't going to compete until 4 years into their contracts? Quite frankly they need to capitalize sooner rather than later.

Add to that Fox's emergence which was unanticipated.

 

[Pidto Files]

Your honor, I'd like to present to the jury, Dolan's approach from 1997-2000 and his growing influence within the organization.

Those deals and those signings that everyone fondly remembers? Not just Smith, that's an active Dolan in that process as well.

You're right it's not the Knicks. And in some ways that helps us. Dolan doesn't understand hockey. On the other hand, that's a double-edged sword because Dolan...doesn't understand hockey.

To be fair in that timeframe they did sign Joe Sakic to an at the time huge offer sheet that was saved in the last minute by Colorado.. However, the rest cannot be argued with and your fears of angry little Jimmy are warranted..

 

[CLW]

respectfully, the dismissed hierarchy, who i loved, sent mixed signals.

1. When they resigned Kreider long term you are telling people the rebuild is over and we are ready to win. They added Strome short term and TDA. That spells winning right there (especially Kreider) who is added onto Panrain, Zibby and Trouba

2. Now they play the patience card b/c none of the kids are ready to win. Wait, so why did we resign Kreider and keep all these vets? By the time the kids are ready to win the vets will be too old to win potentially?

You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

I don't think JD and Gorton saw the team as ready to win for a few years yet. I think the rationale for the signings were a bit different to what you describe.

- Kreider was a good soldier for the franchise and a good professional role model for the kids, so he got extended.

- Panarin, a superstar to protect the rebuild and keep the team competitive, especially important in a big market.

-Trouba, a much needed vet and physical presence on the blueline.

To me it seems obvious the real window was always when the next (kid) generation had grown into the league - not the current Panarin/Kreider/Zib/Trouba generation. You don't win with kids, and the vets did not/do not have the support for a serious Cup challenge because the kids are far from ready.

Dolan brought out the hatchet half way into the rebuild for whatever reasons, and here we are.

 

[CLW]

31T podcast is out, a few notes:
- Elliotte says this move had been in the works for a month, jives with what Dolan himself said.
- Says Sather played "a significant role" in this.
- Says Dolan "felt like he wasn't communicated with" regarding JD. Says Dolan wanted more communication from his senior guys.
- "Whatever Davidson and Gorton were selling, it wasn't for Dolan". Says Dolan isn't one for "building", he wants "bold" and Sather is bold.
- Says everyone is trying to define what Dolan says "was missing".
- Elliotte mentions Tochett, says he isn't sure the Rangers want Torts 2.0. Feels for Quinn.
- Wonders if JD goes back to TV. Gorton was "hurt" being let go, says people are already asking about him.

So Sather knows how to butter up the instant gratification sociopath with no patience for patience, and JD and Gorton didn't.

I've said it already, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Tocchet get the head coaching job after Quinn. Tocchet is protected by his status as a legend, but also does not seem like a personality to rock the boat or create fireworks/throw hissy fits.

 

[rangers1314]

Lol this is all still just so insane to me. I legit sitting on the couch laughing to myself.

Dolan fired one of the most beloved figures in NYR history, maybe THE most beloved, after 2 half seasons Bc in his mind we should be challenging for a championship by now.

What an absolute mental patient.

 

[haveandare]

I don't think JD and Gorton saw the team as ready to win for a few years yet. I think the rationale for the signings were a bit different to what you describe.

- Kreider was a good soldier for the franchise and a good professional role model for the kids, so he got extended.

- Panarin, a superstar to protect the rebuild and keep the team competitive, especially important in a big market.

-Trouba, a much needed vet and physical presence on the blueline.

To me it seems obvious the real window was always when the next (kid) generation had grown into the league - not the current Panarin/Kreider/Zib/Trouba generation. You don't win with kids, and the vets did not/do not have the support for a serious Cup challenge because the kids are far from ready.

Dolan brought out the hatchet half way into the rebuild for whatever reasons, and here we are.

Yeah I don’t get how people can’t see this. Why sign Panarin if we’re rebuilding? Because he’s one of the best players alive and him being here help the kids both by not having the team built to rely on them and by giving them a superstar to play with. Imagine Laf and especially Kakkos rookie seasons if the team was built to rely on them to be top 6 scorers or there wasn’t a Panarin level talent to drive the ship while they adjusted

 

[sbjnyc]

Yeah I don’t get how people can’t see this. Why sign Panarin if we’re rebuilding? Because he’s one of the best players alive and him being here help the kids both by not having the team built to rely on them and by giving them a superstar to play with. Imagine Laf and especially Kakkos rookie seasons if the team was built to rely on them to be top 6 scorers or there wasn’t a Panarin level talent to drive the ship while they adjusted

The rangers also traded Pionk and a 1st for Trouba and then extended him. I get Panarin but I don't get the Trouba deal if the idea was that we wouldn't be ready to compete until he was on the wrong end of his contract.

 

[CLW]

Very true. I think what The podcast brought up the idea that Dolan wasn't communicated with properly feels like the management never presented a plan as to how they're going to address the glaring issue with the "IT" that Dolan felt was missing whether that's grit, size, toughness, coaching that brings that out. We all remember how much Dolan loved Torts.

I think that's what did JD in.

The Crazy Emperor simply got bored with the on ice product is what happened, and put his thumb down.

Drury better provide more blood, sport and instant gratification with his on ice gladiators or he won't last "20 years" either (what are the odds).

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Hey if we really want to put the rose-colored glasses on, maybe a new coach/culture gets Kreider and Zibanejad actually playing hockey again instead of real-life Chel. This team with 19-20 Zibanejad and pre-2019 Kreider would be scary.

Also, nobody wants to talk about this one, but Panarin has spent the entire season sitting in the neutral zone hoping a breakout just happens and he's also capable of more.

I agree with this all, especially the Panarin part, aside from the 19-20 Zib thing. That was just a fluke season for him, Zibanejad was never that type of player.

 

[Machinehead]

I agree with this all, especially the Panarin part, aside from the 19-20 Zib thing. That was just a fluke season for him, Zibanejad was never that type of player.

I would take 18-19 Zibanejad. He was alive.

 

[JohnC]

31T podcast is out, a few notes:
- Elliotte says this move had been in the works for a month, jives with what Dolan himself said.
- Says Sather played "a significant role" in this.
- Says Dolan "felt like he wasn't communicated with" regarding JD. Says Dolan wanted more communication from his senior guys.
- "Whatever Davidson and Gorton were selling, it wasn't for Dolan". Says Dolan isn't one for "building", he wants "bold" and Sather is bold.
- Says everyone is trying to define what Dolan says "was missing".
- Elliotte mentions Tochett, says he isn't sure the Rangers want Torts 2.0. Feels for Quinn.
- Wonders if JD goes back to TV. Gorton was "hurt" being let go, says people are already asking about him.

Imagine being told last summer that Sather, rocking an evil villain goatee, just emerges from the shadows after being MIA for 2 years and plays a big part in shit canning his hand picked predecessor completely out of the blue.

Major Return of the Jedi energy.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

I would take 18-19 Zibanejad. He was alive.

True. I would too.

 

[rangers1314]

Imagine being told last summer that Sather, rocking an evil villain goatee, just emerges from the shadows after being MIA for 2 years and plays a big part in shit canning his hand picked predecessor completely out of the blue.

Major Return of the Jedi energy.

He looks like Logan Roy now.

 

[JohnC]

He looks like Logan Roy now.

Grade A comparison

 

[McRanger92]

Ive been a long time lurker on HF, probably since the Drury/Gomez days, and wanted to chime in on the last few days. This was probably the most emotional week I've had as a Ranger fan, including the 2014 & 15 playoff runs which is crazy to think about.

I don't necessarily think the JD/JG firings were handled the right way by Dolan (classic MSG), but I definitely see the logic behind it. This team has the best winger in the league, a Norris caliber 1D, #1 & #2 overall picks, a top 5 goal scorer in Mika(outside of a covid effected month) and a clear #1 goalie. This has been a challenging season for a ton of reasons but i expected them to actually show up in these "playoff atmosphere" games. Unfortunately, starting in the bubble and continuing through this season, the team has not only lost every important game, but hasn't even been competitive.

The other aspect of this situation that i think hasn't been talked about enough, is how the veteran players on this team feel about the direction they are heading. Dolan made a comment in the Brooks article, and I'm paraphrasing, about "how the entire organization needs to be moving towards the same goal." I think the players have had enough of the laissez-faire attitude about winning and losing and voiced these concerns to ownership. It would certainly explain the reported disconnect between the top guys and Quinn.

Maybe I'm wearing too much of a tinfoil hat here, but why would Panarin/Kreider/Mika/etc. want to go all out for a team that doesn't necessarily consider making the playoffs a goal for this season or last? Something to think about.

Anyway, thanks for reading. Hoping to start posting here more because it really is the best place to talk Ranger Hockey anywhere on the internet.

 

[haveandare]

The rangers also traded Pionk and a 1st for Trouba and then extended him. I get Panarin but I don't get the Trouba deal if the idea was that we wouldn't be ready to compete until he was on the wrong end of his contract.

I’m pretty sure the plan was to start really competing next year.

 

[LetsGoRangers2021]

I’m very surprised by this comment. The Nash trade worked great for us. Went to a cup. Got solid seasons from him. Traded him for a great return and didn’t give up much to get him. Doesn’t get much better than that.

thats one way to look at it. The other is that we traded for him to be the piece to put us over the top. We had just lost some playoff series because we weren’t scoring enough- losing a few 1/2 goal games.

nash comes here and puts up 3 goals in 24 playoff games the year we went to the finals while eating up 20+ min a game. He was the least favorite player I have ever seen wear the sweater. I believe he embodies what dolan is afraid we had been trending towards- soft and passionless.

i get angry thinking about the way nash played the game yet had so many free passes it was unbelievable. All those soft wrist shots from the blue line that killed our offense. Yet, people would see the stat line (6 shots, 1 goal (En)) and think he did fine

 

[LetsGoRangers2021]

I’m pretty sure the plan was to start really competing next year.

I dont mind Trouba or his contract. He eats up tons of minutes and seems to be a great steadying vet presence for our young guys. We all saw what happened when he went down.

he plays a good heavy game too and seems pretty durable. Matches up against all of the others teams’ best and can play with anyone