Post-Game Talk: NYR @ CGY: Bye Bye Stu

[Trxjw]

Team looked like a group that hadn't played a game in a week and was still trying to break free of old habits. When they have time and space to think, they make solid and creative plays. When they don't, they revert back to what they've been learning over the last 3 years. It's funny. Preseason on this board is as much about people getting back into shape when it comes to mindless arguments and petty bickering as it is about hockey.

Thought everyone had their good and bad moments. Richards continues to look horrible. Curious to see what happens when Stepan returns and if Brassard can continue to keep up his very solid game. Could end up pushing Richards to the wing, or even right out of the lineup.

Need to see more from Kreider. He's not engaged enough. I do, however, think he's a bad fit on that line. I think Hrivik is more the sort of player who would thrive there. He's a bit more of an east/west player and his board work would benefit the other guys.

Moore was up and down, but it was nice to see the frustration manifest himself in a heavy left hook. Can tell he was angry with his game and wanted to show it. Love his game in the offensive zone. Not as effective in transition last night, and his defensive zone work was shoddy, but he's still an intriguing package.

Staal looks like he hasn't lost a step from last season. What a beast.

Del Zotto needs to stop forgetting he's playing the right side. Dear god. That kid has to have ADD or something.

Nash had a good 2nd half of the game, but started dipsy-dooing too much and needs to get more pucks on net.

Bickel isn't making the team, but Falk hasn't looked that much better. That's a bit worrisome.

Really liked Hrivik and Fast last night. Really engaged in the play and were moving their feet the entire game. Even Boyle looked pretty good. Was using his body well to create space for the other guys.

 

[RangerBoy]

The biggest cause for concern is Richards. He didn't work well with Nash last season. Nash played well with Stepan who isn't in camp. Its very early. These people want Kreider to play with a mean streak in preseason. Kreider is a skate and shoot the puck player. Have you people seen the other preseason games on the NHL Network? They're unwatchable just like the Rangers games. The most entertaining part of preseason was the shootout in the Buffalo and Toronto game of Saturday. The ineptness of pro hockey players to beat the goalies with their smaller pads was both funny and sad. Brandon Dubinsky should win the Hart this season because he has been lights out in the preseason games for Columbus. Boone Jenner for the Calder too. Next season the Garden will be able to charge fans for preseason games at MSG. You're better off flushing the money down the toilet.

 

[Tawnos]

Del Zotto needs to stop forgetting he's playing the right side. Dear god. That kid has to have ADD or something.

Very, very true. Although, he did break up a couple of rushes moving towards the inside using his stick while on the right side last night. That isn't something I remember seeing from him playing that position in the past.

 

[Ola]

The biggest cause for concern is Richards. He didn't work well with Nash last season. Nash played well with Stepan who isn't in camp. Its very early. These people want Kreider to play with a mean streak in preseason. Kreider is a skate and shoot the puck player. Have you people seen the other preseason games on the NHL Network? They're unwatchable just like the Rangers games. The most entertaining part of preseason was the shootout in the Buffalo and Toronto game of Saturday. The ineptness of pro hockey players to beat the goalies with their smaller pads was both funny and sad. Brandon Dubinsky should win the Hart this season because he has been lights out in the preseason games for Columbus. Boone Jenner for the Calder too. Next season the Garden will be able to charge fans for preseason games at MSG. You're better off flushing the money down the toilet.

Yeah, and Kreider's concerns more or less colludes with Richards and Nash's struggles. And MDZ's and Staal's shortcomings.

Kreider is what he is, there are players in this league at prominant positions that performs while not contributes much more than Kreider is. But Kreider at this point to a large extent needs to be able to piggyback on his linemates, and when they are struggling there is a overwhelming risk for things to get dirty.

 

[Trxjw]

Very, very true. Although, he did break up a couple of rushes moving towards the inside using his stick while on the right side last night. That isn't something I remember seeing from him playing that position in the past.

He certainly made some good plays. I didn't mean to imply that he didn't, but there were several points where I was like, "Where's the right-defender? Oh, DZ and Staal are both on the left side. Nice."

 

[Levitate]

Bickel isn't making the team, but Falk hasn't looked that much better. That's a bit worrisome.

Since the top six is set and the 7th defenseman is really just going to be in case of injury or if someone really has a crappy stretch of games, I'm not too worried. Most teams don't really have a good 7-9th defensive depth...hell they're lucky to have good depth on their third pairing.

The biggest cause for concern is Richards. He didn't work well with Nash last season. Nash played well with Stepan who isn't in camp. Its very early. These people want Kreider to play with a mean streak in preseason. Kreider is a skate and shoot the puck player.

Yeah and the current system/linemates/his own decision making pretty much prevent him from using his speed at all at this point. He needs to be able to bust through the neutral zone with speed and get the puck, but the Rangers have been content to plod through the neutral zone and then dump it

 

[SnowblindNYR]

This

You can already see what a gargantuan mistake it was to NOT buy Richards out.

Yes, it's only preseason, but wow.... not impressed.

All I know is that the days of thinking we can win a cup should be completely wiped from people's brains. That's just not happening.

We should all stop watching because there's no way we're winning the cup based on a preseason game. Overreact much?

 

[Levitate]

On Richards, I'm really going to give him the entire year before passing judgement (well, to be honest if he sucks for a large portion of that year I'm not going to wait until the very end to be annoyed), but it is preseason and he is a vet and he's probably not going 100%

That said he's pretty likely to be bought out regardless. Maybe they can convince a team to take him in a trade if he rebounds and has a good year, but I"m not expecting that. Assuming Stepan re-signs and assuming he continues his improvement, rolling Stepan, Brassard, Lindberg, whoever down the middle looks like it could be solid

 

[Trxjw]

Since the top six is set and the 7th defenseman is really just going to be in case of injury or if someone really has a crappy stretch of games, I'm not too worried. Most teams don't really have a good 7-9th defensive depth...hell they're lucky to have good depth on their third pairing.

If AV wants to carry 8 D and we only have 6 viable NHL defenders on the roster, it's a bit worrisome to me. We saw how much of an impact it had previously with Bickel playing 3 minutes in an extended playoff game. Even a remotely competent defender would have been a godsend.

 

[Levitate]

Eh, just not something I'm that worried about right now. There are guys in Hartford who might get a shot, there will be guys available via trade, etc.

 

[Blue Blooded]

If AV wants to carry 8 D and we only have 6 viable NHL defenders on the roster, it's a bit worrisome to me. We saw how much of an impact it had previously with Bickel playing 3 minutes in an extended playoff game. Even a remotely competent defender would have been a godsend.

AV wants 8 D mainly for drills.

We could always call up Allen/Syvret if we actually need a replacement defenceman.

 

[Richter Scale]

These people want Kreider to play with a mean streak in preseason. Kreider is a skate and shoot the puck player. Have you people seen the other preseason games on the NHL Network? They're unwatchable just like the Rangers games.

Considering other posts of yours, I'm reading this to be a defense of Kreider... if not, disregard the following:

I agree with you, that preseason games mean little, are treated that way by many of the players, and using them to judge NHL players (who are guaranteed a roster spot) and especially the team as a whole is an idiotic exercise.

However, do you not find it concerning that, for a player like Kreider, he has shown little to be excited about in either his play or his development in these games? He is not guaranteed a roster spot (or shouldn't be). So he should be trying to prove that he deserves one and playing with a higher intensity than other guys who don't have anything to prove in these meaningless games. Guys in the same position as him are looking a hell of a lot better than he is, while likewise playing with players who have little or nothing to prove (and who, not to mention, aren't being spoon-fed prime linemates and minutes). Playing with underperforming linemates is not an excuse.

I'll reserve judgement until I see him in a good chunk of games after Oct 1. And I'm not saying his development is done, or that he is a bust; but I'm certainly concerned. It seems like you can't accept any sort of criticism of Kreider's game. The kid needs to pick it up.

 

[mulli25]

John Moore keeps looking better and better.

Reserving judgement on how bad the rest was. Not a good showing (to put it nicely) but they've got time to get it together.

I only saw the first 1.5 periods but what about his game last night prompted this post?

He was a complete train wreck in the denfensive and nuetral zones. Terrible positioning, decision making, and puck handling.

Generally I like Moore a lot, but that was the worst I've seen him play in a Ranger's jersey

 

[Ola]

Really liked Hrivik and Fast last night. Really engaged in the play and were moving their feet the entire game.

As to making a case for being a good prospect that we reasonably can expect to become a part of this team down the road, I think Fast is looking good too.

One concern I have so far is that he isn't quite getting a move on his feets. On the big ice in Europe, and due to all the specificities of the European game really, one big diffrence is that you are much more able over here to keep a high base level of speed under your feet so to speak. Its much more of an art to go back on the backcheck at full speed, play defense for a period of time while keeping speed under your skates, and then turn up ice with that speed and go the other way. In NA you need to think a bit diffrent. You end up going to a full stop much more often, and you need to able to plan ahead from there so to speak and instantly get a move on in new direction in order to play the game with alot of speed. Fast so far got a tendancy to stand still a bit too much, and hence hasn't stood out much with his speed which should be a positive factor for him.

 

[Ola]

It's going to take awhile for the players to break that habit IMO. Guys like Zucarello and Brassard who have been in NY for a shorter time probably are going to look a lot better (and surprise they have been).

Yeah for sure, and our weakest areas are probably these guys biggest strength.

That is probably what will save our season, because I don't like think we will miss the PO's. Ie, a 2nd line with Brass and Zucc can play AV hockey and do fairly well and a line with Callahan (Hagelin-Step-Callahan?) on it will be so good at winning pucks back that they will get by despite not being able to carry the play so to speak. There we have half a forward squad that will do just fine. With Hank etc that is enough to make the PO's I hope.

But that last gear needs to come in form of dominating puck possession shifts. We need all units to perform better and the 1st to work to get that.

 

[Ola]

Interesting, in what way? Full disclosure I fell asleep before the third. But I saw Moore chosing his spots to jump up pretty well, moving well/creatively in the ozone to open up space, and getting good hard shots on net. Good shot selection and actually got it to the net.

Edit - Just read your other posts RE transition, fair enough. I liked his game in the o zone a good deal.

Yeah, I was maybe a bit over the top there on the negative side on John Moore (like out of all players).

I've seen alot of praise of him lately, and when I saw the game I thought it was quite obvious that we really were stuggling when it came to keeping the puck within the team and getting dominating shifts going and in this area Moore was up there with everyone else when it came to throwing the puck all over the ice.

 

[Ola]

AV wants 8 D mainly for drills.

We could always call up Allen/Syvret if we actually need a replacement defenceman.

Slats coaching this team. He should get used to 6 Ds and 12 forwards...

 

[KreiMeARiver*]

We should all stop watching because there's no way we're winning the cup based on a preseason game. Overreact much?

No idea how to assess talent much???

 

[Holocene]

We should all stop watching because there's no way we're winning the cup based on a preseason game. Overreact much?

Snowblind... Voice of reason whoddathunk?

 

[KreiMeARiver*]

Snowblind... Voice of reason whoddathunk?

He's not the voice of reason. More like the voice of hyperbole. I didn't say anything remotely close to "we should all stop watching".

I don't see this team, as currently constituted, as a viable option to truly compete for a cup. This is not an opinion I've formed from watching 1 stupid preseason game.

Richards is completely done and Nash completely disappears in big moments. I don't see these facts reversing themselves.

Our offense is about as advanced as the NJ Rockin' Rollers.

 

[Clown Fiesta]

He's not the voice of reason. More like the voice of hyperbole. I didn't say anything remotely close to "we should all stop watching".

I don't see this team, as currently constituted, as a viable option to truly compete for a cup. This is not an opinion I've formed from watching 1 stupid preseason game.

Richards is completely done and Nash completely disappears in big moments. I don't see these facts reversing themselves.

Our offense is about as advanced as the NJ Rockin' Rollers.

As currently constructed?

Do you mean this team;

Pouilot-Brassard-Zuccarello
Pyatt-Lindberg-Fast
Dorsett-Yogan-Kantor
Haley-Moore-Powe

Girardi-McDonagh
McIlrath-Stralman
Allen-Syvret

Biron
Talbot

or this team;

Kreider-Richards-Nash
Hrivik-Lindberg-Fast
Pyatt-Boyle-Kristo
Mashinter-Powe-Asham

Staal-Del Zotto
Moore-Stralman
Bickel-Falk

Lundqvist
Talbot

Don't worry, neither of those are our actual team.

You accused someone else of hyperbole?

 

[LieutenantLackluster]

You would think Nash would score at least 1 goal in preseason. Why is he so terrible?

 

[KreiMeARiver*]

As currently constructed?

Do you mean this team;

Pouilot-Brassard-Zuccarello
Pyatt-Lindberg-Fast
Dorsett-Yogan-Kantor
Haley-Moore-Powe

Girardi-McDonagh
McIlrath-Stralman
Allen-Syvret

Biron
Talbot

or this team;

Kreider-Richards-Nash
Hrivik-Lindberg-Fast
Pyatt-Boyle-Kristo
Mashinter-Powe-Asham

Staal-Del Zotto
Moore-Stralman
Bickel-Falk

Lundqvist
Talbot

Don't worry, neither of those are our actual team.

You accused someone else of hyperbole?

You just wasted all that time to type that when clearly you know what the F I'm talking about.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

The Rangers curse, where the big names go to decay in uselessness, since the mid-nineties.

couldn't we have just traded Duby and Artie for Brass and Moore ... probably not ...

 

[Cliffy1814]

Kreider seems to have a knack when he's in the other teams zone for not getting open--not finding the seams. Like he's just watching the play. Thinking too much. Not involved enough.
.

Scotuing report from Augiust 2011 on CK...
http://www.puckprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1038

The lack of hockey sense and reading the play don't appear to have improved much.
I don't think it's a lack of effort with Kreider, he just has no idea where to go/what to do at a given time.
The puck just finds some guys sticks and with CK it's the opposite.

What perplexes me (and gives me hope) is that he has had those excellent games in the playoffs both in 2012 and 2013.
I am not sure how to get that player to show up on a daily basis?

I think we need to stop penciling him in as a top 6 forward and acknowldge that there have been are dozens of uber talented players that are not able to translate that talent to production over the years, and CK may be another one.