Proposal: NYR-BUF

[TGWL]

Good question. Certainly Fox, Panarin and Lafreniere, probably Kreider and Zibanejad (even with Zib's contract status)

Ok - So, I am assuming the point of the initial question was "You wouldn't expect teams to get Panarin without their 5 best assets, so why would Buffalo trade Jack Eichel when NYR are not giving up their 5 best assets?

I don't think Buffalo wants Kreider or Zibanejad as the main piece to trading Eichel. Zibanejad's contract is up after next season and Buffalo can't even extend him until the offseason. They don't want Buchnevich. I don't see NYR fans taking those players off the table so much as Buffalo not really wanting that to be the return in an Eichel trade unless a much better piece is added in.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

It's the same sad story from another sad franchise.

"Guys like Nash never get traded"
(Traded for Anisimov, Dubinsky, Erixon, 1st)

"Guys like Hall never get traded"
Traded for Adam Larsson
Traded for Kevin Bahl, Nick Merkley, Nate Schnarr, a conditional first-round pick in 2020, and a conditional third-round pick in 2021.

"Guys like Thornton never get traded"
(Traded for Marco Sturm, Wayne Primeau, and Brad Stuart)

"Guys like Seguin never get traded."
(traded for Loui Eriksson, Reilly Smith, Matt Fraser, and Joe Morrow)

"Guys like Karlsson never get traded."
(traded for Chris Tierney, Dylan DeMelo, Josh Norris, Rudolfs Balcers, 1st, 2 2nds)

"But it's different this time because A, B, C, and D"
*Trade gets made*
*Always similar return*

And Eichel isn't better than Seguin, Karlsson, or Thornton when they were traded.

Eichel is team-controlled, under contract for five years after this. His NMC clause doesn't matter, if Sabres don't get what they want. I guess he can sit out and go to the KHL. All the best. Sabres have zero gun to their head.

 

[bernmeister]

...
So you actually thought I was asking you how the Rangers were going to deal with the expansion draft?
Not too big a fan of abstract thinking I guess.....

Your attempted diversion is a fail.
My pt that NYR better w/exempt assets is obv better going forward than adding to bodies that need ep dr protection.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Eichel is team-controlled, under contract for five years after this. His NMC clause doesn't matter, if Sabres don't get what they want. I guess he can sit out and go to the KHL. All the best. Sabres have zero gun to their head.

Keep telling yourself that. Not sure you can let a star player "sit out or go to the KHL" out of spite when the team has a lot of needs with or without him. How do you sells that to a fan base?

 

[bernmeister]

Ok - So, I am assuming the point of the initial question was "You wouldn't expect teams to get Panarin without their 5 best assets, so why would Buffalo trade Jack Eichel when NYR are not giving up their 5 best assets?

I don't think Buffalo wants Kreider or Zibanejad as the main piece to trading Eichel. Zibanejad's contract is up after next season and Buffalo can't even extend him until the offseason. They don't want Buchnevich. I don't see NYR fans taking those players off the table so much as Buffalo not really wanting that to be the return in an Eichel trade unless a much better piece is added in.

not disputing your assessment.

In theory
Buch is quality scoring asset mid 20s will have 5ish prime yrs, 4 are ufa after upcoming season which is still rfa but w/arb elig

Eichel is better quality scoring asset another 5 yrs on his deal which is already at ufa $.

Again, not advocating Eich to Rangers esp since we have no room to deal w/Trouba's 8per which is part of long term equation.

As a theoretical exercise,
since Buch is obv worth a 1st +
and the above profile is a reality,
using Buch as a core piece to which NYR would add, not Kravtsov, Kakko, etc, that would facilitate a productive discussion if a deal were to be had.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Keep telling yourself that. Not sure you can let a star player "sit out or go to the KHL" out of spite when the team has a lot of needs with or without him. How do you sells that to a fan base?

How do you sell the steaming bowls of crap proposed in exchange for Eichel to the fan base. Probably easier to say, Jack wanted out but we weren't offered value so either he sucks it up and plays or he can sit in the press box. The fan base would be more apt to side with the owners in case 2 vice rejoicing over another ROR return

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

How do you sell the steaming bowls of crap proposed in exchange for Eichel to the fan base. Probably easier to say, Jack wanted out but we weren't offered value so either he sucks it up and plays or he can sit in the press box. The fan base would be more apt to side with the owners in case 2 vice rejoicing over another ROR return

If you want to consider a package of, say, Kravtsov, Chytil/Strome, a first and a 2 prospects, steaming bowl of crap, it;'s still better than having nothing (if they let him sit or he bolts to the K). That package includes 2 young, first round picks, another 1st and prospects. That's better than nothing. And it's better than cutting off your nose to spite your face.

You're not trading Eichel for another Eichel.

 

[Waivers]

If you want to consider a package of, say, Kravtsov, Chytil/Strome, a first and a 2 prospects, steaming bowl of crap, it;'s still better than having nothing (if they let him sit or he bolts to the K). That package includes 2 young, first round picks, another 1st and a third prospect. That's better than nothing. And it's better than cutting off your nose to spite your face.

You're not trading Eichel for another Eichel.

And they’re also not gutting the entire Rangers prospect pipeline either, like other Sabres fans have suggested.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

If you want to consider a package of, say, Kravtsov, Chytil/Strome, a first and a 2 prospects, steaming bowl of crap, it;'s still better than having nothing (if they let him sit or he bolts to the K). That package includes 2 young, first round picks, another 1st and a third prospect. That's better than nothing. And it's better than cutting off your nose to spite your face.

You're not trading Eichel for another Eichel.

Have you seen some of the offered packages? Not that it's a terrible package but nothing in there exactly screams too painful to move.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Have you seen some of the offered packages? Not that it's a terrible package but nothing in there exactly screams too painful to move.

Which one offends you so?

 

[EK392000]

Eichel is quality.
There is a legit red flag about past injury if that can return w/cumulative wear and tear long term. But that is not huge deal breaker.

Prob is, want or do not want, price aside, in flat cap NHL = hard reality with zero to little wriggle room,
and let every BUF fan get this pls
HE IS NOT WORTH BLUEST BLUE CHIP ELCS.
We can't afford all our other assets if we do that, so no.

There are lots of quality pieces that can be had, but my hope is Sabes can make other moves, prob w/picks, to get immediate help that keeps Eich

I understand your argument about blue chip prospects on elcs thoroughly. I think you are extremely infatuated with the idea of having an impact player making less than one million against the cap that you are forgetting to assess whether or not they are making an impact. Kaapo Kakko does not produce at a rate greater than an older player making the same amount. Isn’t Blackwell producing more than him? If Kakko was a 20 goal scorer, your argument would make a lot more sense. With all that being said, I think your value of Kakko is clouded by your infatuation with elcs. He is a great prospect, shows some signs of a budding star. He isn’t close to being the impact you want from him. At least 2-3 years away from that in my opinion, which means you’d be nearing the end of the Panarin era.

If salary is the issue, someone else has suggested sending back Deangelo and Smith to even out the salaries.

 

[EK392000]

Eichel can continue to play Buffalo. The club may consider interesting proposals for the exchange of a player. Best to trade Eichel out West. No NYR without a overpayment.

David Quinn's attempt to get Lafrenière to play right wing deserves the electric chair. David demonstrates a complete inability to work with young people. Jeff Gorton should preferably have club security check Quinn's resume. Perhaps a mistake had crept in and David was coaching a nursing home team in Boston?
The Rangers have no vital need for Eichel, but the player is interesting to the team.

His salary is within the power of the club (Capfriendly PROJECTED CAP HIT - $ (Deangelo + Smith)).
Your trade offer in the latest revision is not acceptable to Buffalo. You offer Chytil, Kakko, Strome. This is too little. Buffalo's position on the price of exchange for their conference is worthy of respect.
We need to be sympathetic to the words of Rangers fans about untouchable players: Lafrenière, Fox, Miller. Other players should not be protected.
Rangers should be prohibited from mentioning Zibanejad, Buchnevich, Strome, Georgiev when exchanging.
The argument that Buffalo needs a goalkeeper is ridiculous. Yes Buffalo needs a goalkeeper, but a good goalkeeper. NYR can keep Georgiev for himself.

I believe that compensation for Eichel:

minimum: Chytil + Lundqvist / Schneider + Kravtsov + + 1st 2021 (unprotected)
optimal BUF: Chytil + Lundqvist / Schneider + Kakko + + 1st 2021 (unprotected)

In order to avoid exceeding the salary ceiling, BUF suggests that NYR solve this problem on its own.
Change any of your players anywhere and for anyone. If the Rangers are having difficulty Buffalo can help. 3st 2021 + 3st 2021 = Deangelo + Smith ... ...

Your latest proposal (Chytil, Kakko, Strome) can be repeated by many teams from Western conferences.
BUF says easy no.

This is my opinion of course you can have your own.
You brought up an interesting topic, but do not fall for provocations (editing by Kravtsov) Good luck.

I’ve gotten so used to reading slander against either Eichel or the Rangers players. I appreciate your take. I did try too hard to accommodate the Rangers fans. Won’t be making that mistake again.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I understand your argument about blue chip prospects on elcs thoroughly. I think you are extremely infatuated with the idea of having an impact player making less than one million against the cap that you are forgetting to assess whether or not they are making an impact. Kaapo Kakko does not produce at a rate greater than an older player making the same amount. Isn’t Blackwell producing more than him? If Kakko was a 20 goal scorer, your argument would make a lot more sense. With all that being said, I think your value of Kakko is clouded by your infatuation with elcs. He is a great prospect, shows some signs of a budding star. He isn’t close to being the impact you want from him. At least 2-3 years away from that in my opinion, which means you’d be nearing the end of the Panarin era.

If salary is the issue, someone else has suggested sending back Deangelo and Smith to even out the salaries.

Not sure if this was addressed to me, but to judge Kakko on what he has produced to date is just silly. I'd happily keep him and give up Blackwell, if you prefer.

 

[GAGLine]

So you would prefer Strome, Chytil and Kakko to Fox?
And there are teams you would trade Panarin to for a package that doesn't include any of that team's best players?

The answers to those questions are irrelevant. Neither means that Eichel is going to get you Fox (or Kakko). But to play along with your silly little game, I would more than likely keep Fox over Strome, Chytil and Kakko, and I more than likely would not trade Panarin for a package that doesn't include a player in another team's top 5.

What you are missing, and why these questions are irrelevant, is that we are not in a position where we have to trade for Eichel. We are also not in a position where we want or need to trade Panarin. So it doesn't matter if I would give up Fox or the other 3, because I don't have to make that choice. I don't give a shit if what we offer isn't enough to get Eichel. Then we don't get him, and we move on to someone else. I also don't have to worry about what I would accept in a trade for Panarin, because he isn't going anywhere.

If Eichel gets traded, it's because he wants out, which means Buffalo is left with 2 choices: Trade him for the best offer or keep him. You don't control what the best offers are. Sorry, but that's the reality of the situation. Don't like it? Keep him. What you think he is worth means zip if no team is offering that much. And if a team is willing to offer more than the Rangers are, fine, trade him to that team.

If Adams is smart, he should trade Eichel for several players who can help you win now. Getting Fox is a pipe dream. It isn't happening. He's 23, still on his ELC for another year, and playing Norris caliber defense. Right now, Fox on ELC > Eichel @ 10 mil. I'm sure you'll disagree with me, but that's the reality from the Rangers' perspective. Trading for Kakko and/or Lafreniere might make you feel better, since both are recent top 2 picks, but neither is close to the kind of production you get from Eichel (when healthy). How long are you willing to wait?

Stop expecting to get an equal caliber player for Eichel. Even if you get a player who has the potential to be as good, you are likely going to have to wait for several years for that player to realize that potential. You will be far better off getting several good players rather than hoping for one great player. I mean, look at your top 6. Eichel, Reinhart, Skinner, Hall, Staal and Olofson. After this season, if not at the deadline, Hall and Staal will be gone, and neither has produced anyway. Skinner has been terrible and is signed for 6 more years. Cozens may be ready for a top 6 role sooner rather than later, but that still leaves you with only 4 viable top 6 options, 5 if Skinner can re-find his game.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Ok - So, I am assuming the point of the initial question was "You wouldn't expect teams to get Panarin without their 5 best assets, so why would Buffalo trade Jack Eichel when NYR are not giving up their 5 best assets?

I don't think Buffalo wants Kreider or Zibanejad as the main piece to trading Eichel. Zibanejad's contract is up after next season and Buffalo can't even extend him until the offseason. They don't want Buchnevich. I don't see NYR fans taking those players off the table so much as Buffalo not really wanting that to be the return in an Eichel trade unless a much better piece is added in.

I'll say it: if a team offered the Rangers a Fox, Panarin and Lafreniere, probably Kreider and Zibanejad-type package for Panarin, I would drive him to the airport myself. But no team is going to gut their team for one player. If the Rangers ever decided to trade Panarin, they would be insane to expect to get a Panarin back—let alone a Panarin+ back.

 

[Satanphonehome]

Ok - So, I am assuming the point of the initial question was "You wouldn't expect teams to get Panarin without their 5 best assets, so why would Buffalo trade Jack Eichel when NYR are not giving up their 5 best assets?

I don't think Buffalo wants Kreider or Zibanejad as the main piece to trading Eichel. Zibanejad's contract is up after next season and Buffalo can't even extend him until the offseason. They don't want Buchnevich. I don't see NYR fans taking those players off the table so much as Buffalo not really wanting that to be the return in an Eichel trade unless a much better piece is added in.

Yes, that is my point. Thanks for addressing it.
I suspect that Jack Eichel is well-regarded enough around the league that some team would give up a better asset than Kakko or Chytil for him. If the Rangers are unwilling or unable to offer a better asset, I doubt there is a deal to be made.

Your attempted diversion is a fail.
My pt that NYR better w/exempt assets is obv better going forward than adding to bodies that need ep dr protection.

I don't understand this sentence. All I want to know is, given the choice: would you take Fox, or would you take a package of Chytil, Kakko and Strome?

 

[Satanphonehome]

What you are missing, and why these questions are irrelevant, is that we are not in a position where we have to trade for Eichel.

What you are missing and why these questions are relevant is that the Sabres are not in a position where they have to trade Eichel, nor are they in a position where they have to trade him to the New York Rangers.

 

[Jim Bob]

If you want to consider a package of, say, Kravtsov, Chytil/Strome, a first and a 2 prospects, steaming bowl of crap, it;'s still better than having nothing (if they let him sit or he bolts to the K). That package includes 2 young, first round picks, another 1st and prospects. That's better than nothing. And it's better than cutting off your nose to spite your face.

You're not trading Eichel for another Eichel.

He can sit and miss out on making millions in his prime.

But, he can't bolt to the KHL while under contract.

Neither option is likely to happen.

 

[blue425]

Eichel is a fantastic player no doubt, but the cost up front and down the line is way too much. Pass.

 

[GAGLine]

What you are missing and why these questions are relevant is that the Sabres are not in a position where they have to trade Eichel, nor are they in a position where they have to trade him to the New York Rangers.

I'm not the one demanding that you accept our offer. As I said, don't like what we are offering, trade him elsewhere or keep him. Trying to prove that Eichel is worth your demands by creating false analogies isn't going to change our minds.

 

[JimmyG89]

Kakko and Lafreniere are just not going to be on the table for Eichel. Same goes for Fox. Those are cornerstone pieces for this team's success for the next decade. Even more important to the team than Panarin, Trouba, and Zibanejad. I think this is a trade that happens in the offseason, after the expansion draft.

I think this is a trade that will net the Sabres 5 pieces, two very good, two good, and a 1st round draft pick (could substitute one of the good prospects for another 1st).

From a Rangers stand point, it would definitely begin with Chytil. A young center, that has already produced as a 3rd line center in the NHL with very little PP time and doesn't really get to play with Panarin. His best stretches have come with guys like Buchnevich and Kreider. Kravtsov would be another of the very good pieces. One of the best young players coming from the KHL. Was the best forward on his playoff team and should have had more points if his linemates could figure out how to fill some empty nets he gave them. Nils Lundkvist could be the this piece as well, depends on if the Sabres move on from Risto since they have Jokiharju as well.

The 1st could either be the 2021 1st or 2022 1st. I don't think the Rangers make the playoffs this season, but they look to be coming on strong. The 2021 pick is likely somewhere around 10-14. 2022 1st would probably be outside the lottery.

As for the good pieces going back, it would depend on what the Sabres are looking for. If they are looking for a goalie, Georgiev could be an option for them. He's in his head a little bit right now, but has a good track record. If they are looking for defense, the Rangers have a multitude of LHD prospects. Matthew Robertson or Zac Jones would be pieces in this deal. If they want a winger, someone like Julien Gauthier who has size, speed and a pedigree of scoring is another option. Someone like Morgan Barron (was one of the best NCAA players last season, on a point per game pace in the AHL right now) could be had as well. He's been a winger mostly, but has played center in college as well.

Rangers don't need to add salary in the trade. They'll have $33M in cap space this summer after buying out DeAngelo and not that many players need to be signed. The $23M after getting Eichel will cover Shesterkin, Buchnevich, and the other RFAs they have.

Chytil, Kravtsov/Lundkvist, two of Georgiev, Robertson, Jones, Barron, or Gauthier, and 2021 1st for Eichel

Chytil, Kravtsov/Lundkvist, one of Georgiev, Robertson, Jones, Barron, or Gauthier, and 2021 & 2022 1sts for Eichel.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

He can sit and miss out on making millions in his prime.

But, he can't bolt to the KHL while under contract.

Neither option is likely to happen.

I was responding to someone who suggested that he could sit or go the K.

 

[Jim Bob]

Kakko and Lafreniere are just not going to be on the table for Eichel. Same goes for Fox. Those are cornerstone pieces for this team's success for the next decade. Even more important to the team than Panarin, Trouba, and Zibanejad. I think this is a trade that happens in the offseason, after the expansion draft.

I think this is a trade that will net the Sabres 5 pieces, two very good, two good, and a 1st round draft pick (could substitute one of the good prospects for another 1st).

From a Rangers stand point, it would definitely begin with Chytil. A young center, that has already produced as a 3rd line center in the NHL with very little PP time and doesn't really get to play with Panarin. His best stretches have come with guys like Buchnevich and Kreider. Kravtsov would be another of the very good pieces. One of the best young players coming from the KHL. Was the best forward on his playoff team and should have had more points if his linemates could figure out how to fill some empty nets he gave them. Nils Lundkvist could be the this piece as well, depends on if the Sabres move on from Risto since they have Jokiharju as well.

The 1st could either be the 2021 1st or 2022 1st. I don't think the Rangers make the playoffs this season, but they look to be coming on strong. The 2021 pick is likely somewhere around 10-14. 2022 1st would probably be outside the lottery.

As for the good pieces going back, it would depend on what the Sabres are looking for. If they are looking for a goalie, Georgiev could be an option for them. He's in his head a little bit right now, but has a good track record. If they are looking for defense, the Rangers have a multitude of LHD prospects. Matthew Robertson or Zac Jones would be pieces in this deal. If they want a winger, someone like Julien Gauthier who has size, speed and a pedigree of scoring is another option. Someone like Morgan Barron (was one of the best NCAA players last season, on a point per game pace in the AHL right now) could be had as well. He's been a winger mostly, but has played center in college as well.

Rangers don't need to add salary in the trade. They'll have $33M in cap space this summer after buying out DeAngelo and not that many players need to be signed. The $23M after getting Eichel will cover Shesterkin, Buchnevich, and the other RFAs they have.

Chytil, Kravtsov/Lundkvist, two of Georgiev, Robertson, Jones, Barron, or Gauthier, and 2021 1st for Eichel

Chytil, Kravtsov/Lundkvist, one of Georgiev, Robertson, Jones, Barron, or Gauthier, and 2021 & 2022 1sts for Eichel.

I would hope that the Sabres learned their lesson from the ROR trade about dealing a top center for a package of less than top shelf pieces.

If any team shows an interest in Eichel and their top 5 or so young players/prospects are off the table, that should end the conversation right there.

 

[Jim Bob]

I was responding to someone who suggested that he could sit or go the K.

And I am responding that the idea that he will sit or jump to the KHL is silly.

There are two likely paths forward:

1) He requests a trade after this season

2) He returns, the team is a tire fire again next season, and the Sabres opt to trade him for pennies on the dollar in June 2022 just before his next big bonus payment is due and his NMC kicks in on 7/1/2022.

I expect things to follow path #2. It will be the train wreck we all see coming and are unable to do anything about it. Kind of like how so many Sabres fans saw the Briere and Drury train wreck coming.

 

[Flash20]

Kakko and Lafreniere are just not going to be on the table for Eichel. Same goes for Fox. Those are cornerstone pieces for this team's success for the next decade. Even more important to the team than Panarin, Trouba, and Zibanejad. I think this is a trade that happens in the offseason, after the expansion draft.

I think this is a trade that will net the Sabres 5 pieces, two very good, two good, and a 1st round draft pick (could substitute one of the good prospects for another 1st).

From a Rangers stand point, it would definitely begin with Chytil. A young center, that has already produced as a 3rd line center in the NHL with very little PP time and doesn't really get to play with Panarin. His best stretches have come with guys like Buchnevich and Kreider. Kravtsov would be another of the very good pieces. One of the best young players coming from the KHL. Was the best forward on his playoff team and should have had more points if his linemates could figure out how to fill some empty nets he gave them. Nils Lundkvist could be the this piece as well, depends on if the Sabres move on from Risto since they have Jokiharju as well.

The 1st could either be the 2021 1st or 2022 1st. I don't think the Rangers make the playoffs this season, but they look to be coming on strong. The 2021 pick is likely somewhere around 10-14. 2022 1st would probably be outside the lottery.

As for the good pieces going back, it would depend on what the Sabres are looking for. If they are looking for a goalie, Georgiev could be an option for them. He's in his head a little bit right now, but has a good track record. If they are looking for defense, the Rangers have a multitude of LHD prospects. Matthew Robertson or Zac Jones would be pieces in this deal. If they want a winger, someone like Julien Gauthier who has size, speed and a pedigree of scoring is another option. Someone like Morgan Barron (was one of the best NCAA players last season, on a point per game pace in the AHL right now) could be had as well. He's been a winger mostly, but has played center in college as well.

Rangers don't need to add salary in the trade. They'll have $33M in cap space this summer after buying out DeAngelo and not that many players need to be signed. The $23M after getting Eichel will cover Shesterkin, Buchnevich, and the other RFAs they have.

Chytil, Kravtsov/Lundkvist, two of Georgiev, Robertson, Jones, Barron, or Gauthier, and 2021 1st for Eichel

Chytil, Kravtsov/Lundkvist, one of Georgiev, Robertson, Jones, Barron, or Gauthier, and 2021 & 2022 1sts for Eichel.

Why don't you just take jack for free then lol...