Proposal: NYR and MON then EDM multiple deals w/in a package

[bernmeister]

Thank you Bern, I needed this today. Always fun reading your proposals before they get locked. Merry xmas man!

Merry Christmas to you as well
and check out bern's music at the Christmas thread at the Ranger board.

This one should not get locked.
Like everything else die a natural death, but should not be cancelled.

Fortunately, while there is often a gulf of disagreement, my threads show an insight and/or entertainment value that should keep them going.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Feel the Bern! Everyone gets bern’d except the NYR! What a surprise!

 

[bernmeister]

Your deal is too complicated. Are we to assume part 2 and part 3 doesn't happen without part 1? Or are we to assume that part 1 doesn't happen without part 2 and 3?

Rangers - Edmonton
***Where is Kravtsov coming into play if we traded him to Montreal? I'm assuming you just meant we're getting back an 8th overall after giving up a 9th overall to Montreal, so the deal you're looking for i'm going to again assume is the following after the initial trade with Montreal.

Price - 3.75million x 5
Lindren 3 x3
4th round pick

Holloway
Broberg
McLeod
EDM 2023 3rd and 2024 + 2025 2nds

Is this what you mean? Because if it is i'm going to change career paths and become a detective. You basically want to take advantage of Edmonton by having Montreal retain half the contract for Price.

It is fair for you to pt out that Rangers are taking a risk, in that they obv have to flip Price. And it is fair to ask if anything is predicated on anything else.

I have taken pains to explain every aspect of the deal as part of a package.
I consider the values fair, with an explanation as to why.

What you listed is basically it although if you look more carefully there is a bit more.
Part of that includes taking back Koskinen

As to where/how Gorton uses Krav, that's up to them.
They should have experimented w/him at pivot which I said from over a year and a half, at least.

We are replacing value lost and getting futures in profit for brokering the interests of Canadiens and Oilers

 

[TFHockey]

Krav does not equal Broberg. Not on paper, not by position and not by organizational needs.

 

[bernmeister]

It's not good for Montreal, but it just seems like the entire purpose is to gain an advantage on retaining Price for Oilers, and cashing in.

Also, I can't see NYR giving up Lindgren and Strome when they currently sit in a a good metro position. Doesn't make a lot of sense unless this is a move when NYR are already out of playoffs. Expecting Broberg to take top pair LD with Fox and randomly tossing somebody in the 2C spot is going to tank the season. There's no thought-out logic here. It's like a fantasy game where you just try to gain better future players.

there is nothing wrong w/da bold

as to Strome, there is ZERO chance we can afford him
it's deal him or self rent and get nothing long term,
which is unacceptable.

Chytil can and should be 2C. Fact that LaF stills needs legs to develop to upgrade his skating = only weak link in his picture atm, should not be held vs Chytil. Keep that line intact, get mo familiar.
Big picture, no win now overreach.

Lindgren I am not crazy about moving but it is necessary.

Say instead I pull out that side of the equation.
Say Nemeth's 2.5 can be moved no retain.
We keep Lindgren, Oil keep Holloway.

We are still not planning let alone answering moves around the corner that need to get made.

In addition to Zib + Fox, we also need $$ for Kakko, LaF + Blais.
So in a sense we really need both moves, although we could juggle.
But Lindgren for Holloway is good long term planning.

 

[Hostile Offer]

Feel free to suggest better moves.

Winding up w/Kravtsov + Geo is a strong offer for Price, and Habs have to throw in the at half as a given b'c his $$$ is too damn high to begin with.

How about this:

Habs keep Price and don't eat up a total of nearly $30M in dead cap. Rangers keep their valuable assets.

 

[bernmeister]

Utter fleecing of the Oilers. Not great for the Habs either.

we are all entitled to our opinions.

Here's arguably a non opinion....

If MON doesn't like it, they can live w/Price at full pop while likely being run into the ground.

If Oil don't like it, they can stand pat and take their chances with the netminding they have. Sure, a modest upgrade alternative at a modest cost is possible, but if you want a real upgrade, it is gonna cost.

And if Rangers don't like it, they can just roll with what they have, and develop Krav once he gets here w/out stupidity of roster fiasco that led to him going to the K.


Gorton has to decide what is reasonable to expedite Habs return to respectability.
Anybody got something better, let's here it.

Oil are NOT super crushed as to this being their window and time is running out, BUT the clock IS ticking.

Rangers are a work in progress that is improving.
Hopefully w/w'o these deals they will shed excess vets and give mo mins to the emerging core.
Faster they do THAT, faster we are closer to the promised land

 

[bernmeister]

Whole thing is bad but look who came up with it. Same person who thinks Kravstov should be a Centre

Your snide retort is rejoined.
On paper he has the skills to cut it, and played well enough as a stopgap in high level international play to warrant a shot.

 

[keglu]

I was not even able to understand what is a deal between EDM and NYR.
There is something in OP writing/formating style that its really hard to read.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Yikes

 

[bernmeister]

So you spent a thread telling everyone that Kravtsov is still worth a 9th overall pick, then to go and create another and trade him along with Georgiev for Carey friggin Price? Not only that, but you proceeded to have Montreal RETAIN 50% on Price?

Lmfao. Can’t make this shit up.

Mon not only has to full retain on Price, they need hope and pray a partner who can accommodate can eat more, b'c Price at 5.25 is not doable for nearly every NHL team.

And btw, this is mid 30s Price in as is condition.
This is not a composite of prime Vezina, Dryden, Roy, Richter, Hank, and whoever else you want to include all rolled up into one.

 

[ole ole]

And here i thought it was Christmas not April Fools
Oilers and Habs both say easily... NO
Merry Christmas to all...Ya you to Bern.
And Mods might as well shut this down as all Oiler and Hab fans ALL Decline the offer.

 

[bernmeister]

Krav does not equal Broberg. Not on paper, not by position and not by organizational needs.

this is technically a moot pt in this case b'c you would be winding up w/Price, not Krav.

Howev, I remain adamant.
Krav did not get legit shot and his value is frozen at 9OA draft value until he demonstrates same, less, or more.

Broberg is 8OA. So ballpark, math does not lie, ballpark this is the same.

btw, Broberg is listed as not on the roster atm per cf
Lindgren would obv be high end instant help.

just sayin...

 

[ole ole]

I promised a bern special for the holidays and here it is. If anyone wants something more Yuletide, go to the Christmas thread at the Ranger board. And now without further a dieu...

larger view is 3 team but for tech reasons broken down into 2, each its own large package.

EVERYTHING IS PACKAGE IS TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT

A) NY-MON
part 1: Kravtsov + Geo for Price at half = 5.25 x 5
part 2: Strome at full 4.5 no retain for MON 2023 + 2024 2nds
part 3: WPG 2022 4th + Hajek for MON 2022 3rd

rationale:
Habs - best use of Price is trade since not likely to compete next 2-3 yrs. Wince on eating half, but Habs have no one to blame but themselves for that and Price not moveable at full pop. Krav is solid talent, doing well in the K, and has C potential which Rangers are foolishly ignoring to consider to date, but a needed F in any case. Geo comes w/rfa control, runs hot and cold but also show he is solid when he is the guy w/starter work.
Strome reportedly wants 5.75 w/term to stay a Ranger, which he can't get b'c any other ?, NY has no cap for that. If he takes a 3-4 year deal to Gorts liking, he can be a useful pivot add, or flipped for a late 2021 1st as a rental, which MON gets draft help now for paying later. Strome as cap balance in this facilitates deal.
Hajek has no room on Rangers and MON is getting off a little light on Strome so a back scratch is made, NY has no 3rd this yr and Canadiens can live with downgrade a 3rd to a 4th.

Rangers - It was a mistake not to listen to me and give Krav a shot at C, but whatev, we move on. Value obtained; Price will obv be sold to highest bidder, and picks for Strome works out fine. Hajek was all world for 4 games, damaged his shoulder, and somehow NY botched his return. Upgrading to a needed 3rd is fine as is the roster slot.

_________________________________

Pause to consider who would make higher offer for Price w/Rangers retaining 5 years at 1.5 per reducing his cap hit from 5.25 to 3.75.
Avs are a contender, as are others. Guessing Oil might cough up the most, tho would be curious to see other offers.
So,

B) NY-MON
part 1: Price retained again by another 1.5 so 5.25 reduced to 3.75 x 5
Rangers want a signif profit; massive overpay not in order, but admit competition for Price at that price. [lol:.].

step 1, equalize value for Kravtsov 9OA = 8OA Broberg. {And no, not taking Yama and a pick instead}.
step 2 put on shelf value of Geo, come back to it, and then what profit is to be added.


part 2: Lindgren at full 3 x 3 no retain for Holloway
Unfortunately, added cap hit on Fox + Zib leaves no alternative. Lindgren is only guy w/any cap recovery for this scenario. Fortunately he is replaced by bigger, faster, cheaper Broberg.
Value: would want AT LEAST a mid 1st for heart and soul Lindy, effective at clearing the crease and, while not unicorn speed demon, is also sufficiently fast. Holloway was that level pick. Outside chance he is pivot, more likely he is a great bookend W w/Kreider.

part 3: part 2 above only pays for acquiring Lindgren. It does not pay 5 years eating 1.5 cap on Price. For that I want two future 2nds if sooner or 3 if delayed extensively. Will split the dif and do two 2nds down the road but not too far and a 3rd. I will take EDM 2023 3rd and 2024 + 2025 2nds

part 4: returning to part 1, step 2, value of Geo: I add NYR 2021 4th and take 2nd round pick McLeod

part 5: NY still has LD prospect depth in Reunanen. Is ready now if need be, comes w/rfa cost control. Reunanen + NYR 2023 3rd for Lavoie, who was a 2nd round pick.

part 6: not adding up every nickel, even at double retained Price 3.75 + Lindgren 3.0 = 6.75 add for EDM team showing zero cap per CF. So if we are honest expiring Koskinen 4.5 is a cap dump you should pay for. Howev, Merry Christmas, NY will do expiring vet Kinkaid to get you thru this year as backup for unwanted Kosk, no charge, as part of this package.

If you want him for free, you can also take Brodzinski to help bottom 6 your playoff run.

-------------------------------------

rationale:
Oil surrender high end prospects but get legit top help in G and Lindgren immediate help [notice Broberg at the A?]
Do have to refresh next coupla drafts but revitalizing w/youth is still doable going forward.
It is a big gamble, but if Price approaches good or better form, arguably worth it.
And, not unimportant, dealing for Price eliminates NY sending him elsewhere, incl Colorado.


Rangers -
complete a plan to proceed from strength with high quality prospects.
It is a major wince to lose Lindgren, but we are likely pulling off a band aid that needed to done in coupla years anyway.

are controlling the cap, not letting it control us
added futures, both picks + prospects, is smart

roster:
Broberg replaces Lindgren, max Nemeth - Nils to acclerate his acclimation, then move Nemeth, likely room for Robertson, but also possible chance for Jones!
and can also entertain shifting Nils to LD and calling up Schneider, at least til we can move Trouba
Broberg - Fox
KAM - Trouba
Nemeth - Nils

Fs
Goodrow - Zib - Panarin
LaF - Chytil - Gauthier
Kreider - Barron - Kakko [not sure if enuf scoring but dif to play vs will dominate]
Reaves - Rooney - Hunt
ample reserves incl to upgrade

=============================================================
have at it and play nice.

respectful reminder to mods, this is a scenario of multiple deals, even tho as a package.
All homework shown. Each deal can stand up for individual assessment.
Thus not subject to a harge of outlandish vs entire combo of suggested deals.

This is like a hostile takeover.

 

[bernmeister]

How about this:

Habs keep Price and don't eat up a total of nearly $30M in dead cap. Rangers keep their valuable assets.

That's fine but reality is you can never retain more that half to a low of 5.25 on Price, no matter what.
It doesn't nec HAVE TO BE rangers, but you will need a third team to help broker any deal if you choose to move Price b'c 5.25 is too much.

Feel free to suggest what other team(s) can substitute taking on cap, and paying you for Price while taking on risk they recover that and get enuf profit to be worthwhile.

 

[bernmeister]

This is like a hostile takeover.

not so.
free to do it

or accept consequences of status quo or something much less bold.

no one is putting a gun to anybody's head

 

[bernmeister]

Peeps I gotta do some Christmas stuff so I am hoping to

1, hear more about this, but w/more serious critical, objective analysis, no just no, don't like.

2. Am wishing you all joyfule Yuletide.
Go to Rangers board + check out my 2 mp3s for some holiday cheer.


til some pt tom
bern

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Bern, you gotta figure out a way to abbreviate these... Or at least format them in a way that it's easy to differentiate where the trade is and where the explanation is.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Don't want Georgiev, Hajek or Strome at all and Kravstov is more an interesting gamble than anything else, so its an incredibly easy **** off from the Habs point of view. The rational was kind of funny to read though.

 

[ole ole]

Peeps I gotta do some Christmas stuff so I am hoping to

1, hear more about this, but w/more serious critical, objective analysis, no just no, don't like.

2. Am wishing you all joyfule Yuletide.
Go to Rangers board + check out my 2 mp3s for some holiday cheer.


til some pt tom
bern

Garbage proposals are pretty self-explanatory. No reason to explain why all the NO's

 

[ole ole]

not so.
free to do it

or accept consequences of status quo or something much less bold.

no one is putting a gun to anybody's head

It would take a gun to a whole nation for anyone to accept that 1 sided crappy proposal.

How about a 3rd for Krav?

 

[Djp]

I was not even able to understand what is a deal between EDM and NYR.
There is something in OP writing/formating style that its really hard to read.

welcome to the land of misfit proposals….

 

[Hostile Offer]

That's fine but reality is you can never retain more that half to a low of 5.25 on Price, no matter what.
It doesn't nec HAVE TO BE rangers, but you will need a third team to help broker any deal if you choose to move Price b'c 5.25 is too much.

Feel free to suggest what other team(s) can substitute taking on cap, and paying you for Price while taking on risk they recover that and get enuf profit to be worthwhile.

I'm not sure I get what you're trying to say. Habs have no problem keeping Price if the trade value is low (which it no doubt is) and probably have ZERO desire to have his $5.25M dead cap hit for the next five years if full retention is needed in order to trade him.

 

[Seachd]

I’m still trying to figure out how Price, from the Rangers specifically, is the only option the Oilers have.

 

[Alluckks]

Merry Christmas Bern, may you find many more elaborate and extravagant trade proposals stuffing your stocking