Nyquist & Tatar

[Mijatovic]

First year they aren't mainly lining up on Z's and Dats line. Struggling to score and pot 50 points. Maybe they just aren't as good as any of us where hoping. They are both about to enter into there primes. Maybe they tops just have 45-55 point upside.

Hmm. I disagree. Nyquist 2 years ago was literally driving offense on his own. Because he had to. Now he doesn't and now he defers constantly and just doesnt drive like that.

So Nyquist has the ability. Gotta be a mental thing. I think Tatar has been a little unlucky this year.

 

[Vladdy84]

I think they both actually miss Franzen in the lineup. He was a nice skilled big body that could create space and was a decent passer when not on one of his patent hot streaks

Nichushkin for Nyquist

 

[Frk It]

Hmm. I disagree. Nyquist 2 years ago was literally driving offense on his own. Because he had to. Now he doesn't and now he defers constantly and just doesnt drive like that.

So Nyquist has the ability. Gotta be a mental thing. I think Tatar has been a little unlucky this year.

Driving offense when no one has the book on you yet, and you're on the 3rd line getting easy matchups is one thing...

Doing it against tougher competition, when teams know your game is another thing.

 

[Henkka]

Driving offense when no one has the book on you yet, and you're on the 3rd line getting easy matchups is one thing...

Doing it against tougher competition, when teams know your game is another thing.

What has those comments to do with Nyquist? He hasn't been a 3rd liner (by competition) since 2012-13 season.

That WIIM article pretty much showed what is going on. ES play is the same, probably even better, only power-play production is missing. Now we should see more results when Gus is put back to his former PP role.

 

[Frk It]

What has those comments to do with Nyquist? He hasn't been a 3rd liner (by competition) since 2012-13 season.

That WIIM article pretty much showed what is going on. ES play is the same, probably even better, only power-play production is missing. Now we should see more results when Gus is put back to his former PP role.

He was exclusively a top 6 forward last season.

This year he's had easier competition, but it seems teams know how to defend him, and he doesn't try to take guys 1 on 1 as much. Just curls back and takes the space given.

 

[14ari13]

I think Nyquist and Tatar Are becoming big problem. Now Larkin, Datsyuk and Z struggle because of these 2. Blashill has to focus on AA. The kid is a game breaker. Datsyuk, Z, Larkin and AA have to drive the offense. Tatar and Nyquist have to figure out their game. Howard too.
Team has no time to wait for them.

 

[benusmc]

They should put them with Sheahan, AA, or Jurco. All 3 are bigger guys who can control the puck. Sheahan is the safest defensively and showing some hands. Jurco seems to be finally looking comfortable. AA is just a ****ing beast!

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

Skating ability for both of them has worsened considerably. This might have to do with teams having the book out on them (especially Gus), but maybe they got too big?

I remember when these guys burst on to the scene. Regardless of who they were playing with, they were all over the ice... so determined. I just don't see that right now.

They also need to start utilizing Gus in the middle of the PP again. I can't remember the last time he's even touched the puck on the PP.

 

[Mijatovic]

Driving offense when no one has the book on you yet, and you're on the 3rd line getting easy matchups is one thing...

Nah. Nyquist was playing first line that season. Last season, he disappeared 5v5 and popped up on the Powerplay. This season, he decided to disappear off the PP.

Biggest thing for Nyquist, is he needs to remember how to hustle and speed up his game. Taking it a little too day-to-day for my liking.

 

[Probie]

Skating ability for both of them has worsened considerably. This might have to do with teams having the book out on them (especially Gus), but maybe they got too big?

I remember when these guys burst on to the scene. Regardless of who they were playing with, they were all over the ice... so determined. I just don't see that right now.

They also need to start utilizing Gus in the middle of the PP again. I can't remember the last time he's even touched the puck on the PP.

Is it complacency or injury or bulking up? Whom has which problem(s)? I;m guessing gus bulked up a bit, and got his contract, that's his problem. I think Tatar is depressed or something, his head and heart is not in it. I cant tell if either guy is banged up but they could be.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Agree with Henkka's assessment, Gus scored a boatload of points last season on the PP playing the middle man in the 1-3-1. The rest of his goals came off shots from somewhere between the face-off circles. Lately all those shots seem to be hitting the posts (just like it felt like it was Jurco last year who was getting all the posts).

These are all Nyquists goals from last year

 

[Shaman464]

A lot of people pointed out that Nyquist's production was based on his ability to score on the PP and any deviation from a top PP would cause a reduction in his productive ability. One year on: Wings PP is struggling and as a result Nyquist is having an 'off year'. He's a third line winger/PP specialist and this season has shown it.

 

[Ulysses31]

Just wanted to pop in with a couple of gifs to highlight what these guys are capable of.

As for their drop in performance~ I'm unsure. Perhaps Blashill is not/cannot utilize them as well as Babcock could~ especially tatar.

 

[ap3x]

Nah. Nyquist was playing first line that season. Last season, he disappeared 5v5 and popped up on the Powerplay. This season, he decided to disappear off the PP.

Biggest thing for Nyquist, is he needs to remember how to hustle and speed up his game. Taking it a little too day-to-day for my liking.

Yeah, it's Gus disappearing off the PP, not the PP itself that sucks. Use him as you did last season and judge then.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

A lot of people pointed out that Nyquist's production was based on his ability to score on the PP and any deviation from a top PP would cause a reduction in his productive ability. One year on: Wings PP is struggling and as a result Nyquist is having an 'off year'. He's a third line winger/PP specialist and this season has shown it.

He still might get 20 goals and close to 50 points while having a trash powerplay season. And he's a third line winger?

 

[Shaman464]

He still might get 20 goals and close to 50 points while having a trash powerplay season. And he's a third line winger?

18 goals and 42-43 points? While being mediocre at even strength? Doesn't sound like a top winger to me.

 

[Obe2kenobe]

A lot of people pointed out that Nyquist's production was based on his ability to score on the PP and any deviation from a top PP would cause a reduction in his productive ability. One year on: Wings PP is struggling and as a result Nyquist is having an 'off year'. He's a third line winger/PP specialist and this season has shown it.

Gus and Tats were basically on the same scoring pace as the past couple seasons earlier in the season.

Players go through slumps. Getzlaf wasn't scoring early in the season, last night he got his 40th assist

and has scored in 9 straight. Look at Crosby in his first 28 games, 6g 13a. 27 games later he has

24g and 29a. Good players are not immune to "slumps". Gus and Tats are both good players IMO

Who on this team is scoring more than was expected at the beginning of the year? Larkin is the only one

I can think of. Yet many want to rip on them. They'll be back to scoring at better rate soon.

 

[Obe2kenobe]

18 goals and 42-43 points? While being mediocre at even strength? Doesn't sound like a top winger to me.

What are the projected numbers for our top wingers Helm, Richards?

 

[Frk It]

18 goals and 42-43 points? While being mediocre at even strength? Doesn't sound like a top winger to me.

Typical production for a 2nd line winger. Last year both produced like 1st line wingers. Neither have produced "like 3rd liners" since they were rookies.

 

[Shaman464]

Gus and Tats were basically on the same scoring pace as the past couple seasons earlier in the season.

Players go through slumps. Getzlaf wasn't scoring early in the season, last night he got his 40th assist

and has scored in 9 straight. Look at Crosby in his first 28 games, 6g 13a. 27 games later he has

24g and 29a. Good players are not immune to "slumps". Gus and Tats are both good players IMO

Who on this team is scoring more than was expected at the beginning of the year? Larkin is the only one

I can think of. Yet many want to rip on them. They'll be back to scoring at better rate soon.

What are the projected numbers for our top wingers Helm, Richards?

Slumps aren't season long, like you've pointed out with Getz and Crosby. Also those two players it wasn't expected they would start so slowly, with Nyquist (especially) and Tatar people have been calling it for a while. And it's not just that they aren't producing, it's that a lot of nights they are rarely noticeable. That's what really separates top 2 line talent from 3 line talent is the ability to be noticed even when they are slumping.

As for Helm and Richards, that's a symptom of the gross mismanagement that has become part of Red Wings' culture.

 

[Run the Jewels]

They are what they are - flawed players. Both are smart and, for their size, seem to do a good job staying healthy, but they aren't complete enough to avoid being played by the book. Play them a certain way, and they don't have a way out, sans playing on a line with a much bigger fish.

People are acting like they're bombing out Sheahan-style. They're still both on pace for ~45 points despite playing like crap. If you're expecting 60+ point guys yearly, then you're probably over-estimating them.

And yet...Scoring is down league-wide - the worst since the season-long lockout. And the PP - which should be where small, skilled types thrive - is mediocre at best, which is a team problem.

But really, I think the reason why everyone is harping on them is because they're disappointed. In reality, we should be disappointed with pretty much everyone's performance this year. You can point to the aging of Hank and Datsyuk, but Hank and Datsyuk shouldn't be propping up the offense of literally an entire roster. When only 1 veteran player on your roster who has played out the season has improved (both based on the eye test and statistically), then the problem is endemic.

• 
  Players producing less than last year:
  Datsyuk - 1.03 > 78
  Hank - 86 > 68
  Tatar - 68 > 56
  Nyquist - 66 > 53
  Abby - 62 > 53
  Richards - 49 > 41
  Green - 63 > 40
  Kronwall - 55 > 38
  DD - 39 > 30
  Helm - 44 > 29
  Sheahan - 46 > 22
  Jurco - 29 > 17
  Kindl - 37 > 24
  Andy - 12 > 11
  Miller - 16 > 7
  Ericsson - 0.18 (same)
  Glen - 0.22 (same)

• 
  Outliers:
  Quincey - 25 < 32 (full year vs. 25 games)
  Pulkinnen (both seasons of 31 games) - 26 < 39
  Smith - 17 < 25

I was planning to wait until the end of the season to do something along these lines but this is exactly what I am seeing. People can rip on Tatar for being lazy if they want. The inconvenient thing is you have to rip on nearly the entire team for being lazy since everyone's production has gone down, in most cases considerably.

That's coaching.

 

[Henkka]

Funny how Pulkkinen would be the only one producing more, but they don't want to use him.

Whole regular season is a muppet show.

 

[14ari13]

I was planning to wait until the end of the season to do something along these lines but this is exactly what I am seeing. People can rip on Tatar for being lazy if they want. The inconvenient thing is you have to rip on nearly the entire team for being lazy since everyone's production has gone down, in most cases considerably.

That's coaching.

The production of the most players a cross the nhl has gone down, wings players included.

 

[Obe2kenobe]

Slumps aren't season long, like you've pointed out with Getz and Crosby. Also those two players it wasn't expected they would start so slowly, with Nyquist (especially) and Tatar people have been calling it for a while. And it's not just that they aren't producing, it's that a lot of nights they are rarely noticeable. That's what really separates top 2 line talent from 3 line talent is the ability to be noticed even when they are slumping.

As for Helm and Richards, that's a symptom of the gross mismanagement that has become part of Red Wings' culture.

They weren't slumping early in the season. Nyquist is noticeable to me. He has had some assists at least lately. His ice time has been reduced to nearly 1/2 that of Zetterberg and Datsyuk in some games. That could be part of not you not noticing them. If the wings are going to make the playoffs and hopefully get out of the 1st rd. Blashill, Nyquist and Tatar need to figure out how to get er goin as Mickey might say.

 

[ap3x]

Gus most definitely stepped up recently, making himself more noticeable.
Getting the feeling that some only look out for actual assists or goals, not created chances.