Proposal: Nyquist and Howard to the Flames

[Bounces R Way]

This coming from the guy who refuses to acknowledge that being able to draft a steal once every 5 years means we can underpay you for your assets.

You also apparently didn't get the part about how Detroit doesn't need depth picks anymore. They've got their depth. So no, we don't need your trash depth picks. We'll get our 1st for Nyquist, and we'll likely keep Howard.

EDIT: BTW, I like how after Dzingel, not a single guy on your list even comes within 15 points of Nyquist. You really included Burakovsky and Maroon?

Teams always need depth. More depth. Better depth. Younger depth. Depth to push the other depth. Find it a little hard to believe the 29th ranked team with 3 roster players over the 30pt plateau is all set in that department, but I'm not going to claim to know your team better than you.

To reiterate, in the offer is a 2nd, a 4th, what is probably a top 5 maybe 6 forward prospect from the Flames stable, a cap dump that is owed basically no more money and is an expiring UFA in Smith, and a RHD on the right side of 30 with experience playing every pairing under contract for the next season. Unless you're planning on bringing back 38 year old Kronwall, the Wings RHD depth with NHL experience is Green, the dman formerly known as Trevor Daley, Jensen, Witkowksi&McIlrath and a 21 year Hronek.

For a 34 year old UFA goalie, which rarely hold anything even approaching significant value, and a 50pt UFA winger with poor playoff numbers. They're fine players, they are no where near premium.

I'm not trying to say this trade should blow you away, maybe Holland can do better, but to see it as only a 2nd and trash is either being disingenuous or ignorant. A 4th rd pick is the Flames best player, our best defender was undrafted, our second best defender was also a 4th rounder. I've already talked about the countless Tampa examples, not to mention somehow needing to remind you what the Detroit Red Wings Dynasty was built off of. But if you only have eyes for the 2019 first rd(yuck btw), then I won't hold it against you.

Have a blessed day

 

[CraigsList]

My thoughts... Howard and Nyquist are not worth 1sts (in my opinion).

Howard + Nyquist? I would easily give up a 1st and Smith. Would even add a decent prospect that fills Detroit's needs if there is a fit too.

 

[SuperScript29]

My thoughts... Howard and Nyquist are not worth 1sts (in my opinion).

Howard + Nyquist? I would easily give up a 1st and Smith. Would even add a decent prospect that fills Detroit's needs if there is a fit too.

If Boyle got a 2nd round pick, Nyquist should easily be worth a 1st rounder.

 

[drw02]

No, you're just the one assuming someone is trash because you don't know anything about them. Nyquist has 20 fewer points than any of our top 5 scorers and wouldn't be in our top 6 if he came here, he'd be moved to the left side and not be able to leech off Larkin anymore. As for Howard being better than either of our goalies, that is just downright laughable, much like your team as a whole.

flames haven’t been relevant in decades or ever really. Congrats on your one random good season.

 

[Reddwit]

Teams always need depth. More depth. Better depth. Younger depth. Depth to push the other depth. Find it a little hard to believe the 29th ranked team with 3 roster players over the 30pt plateau is all set in that department, but I'm not going to claim to know your team better than you.

To reiterate, in the offer is a 2nd, a 4th, what is probably a top 5 maybe 6 forward prospect from the Flames stable, a cap dump that is owed basically no more money and is an expiring UFA in Smith, and a RHD on the right side of 30 with experience playing every pairing under contract for the next season. Unless you're planning on bringing back 38 year old Kronwall, the Wings RHD depth with NHL experience is Green, the dman formally known as Trevor Daley, Jensen, Witkowksi&McIlrath and a 21 year Hronek.

For a 34 year old UFA goalie, which rarely hold anything even approaching significant value, and a 50pt UFA winger with poor playoff numbers. They're fine players, they are no where near premium.

I'm not trying to say this trade should blow you away, maybe Holland can do better, but to see it as only a 2nd and trash is either being disingenuous or ignorant. A 4th rd pick is the Flames best player, our best defender was undrafted, our second best defender was also a 4th rounder. I've already talked about the countless Tampa examples, not to mention somehow needing to remind you what the Detroit Red Wings Dynasty was built off of. But if you only have eyes for the 2019 first rd(yuck btw), then I won't hold it against you.

Have a blessed day

This is the definition of talking out of both sides of your mouth.

You talk about being disingenuous, but then act like the Wings somehow need Stone who may not overcome his injuries just because they don't have the best RHD depth in a rebuilding season and then opt for a canonical logical flaw by using anecdotal evidence as your argument why a 4th rounder has any value.

You know what? We currently have a shit 2C and Datsyuk and Zetterberg were 6th round picks or later, so maybe we should approach St. Louis and see if they'll give us Tyler Bozak and a couple 6th round picks. Maybe if we're lucky they'll take pity on us and throw in a 4th rounder too.

 

[CraigsList]

If Boyle got a 2nd round pick, Nyquist should easily be worth a 1st rounder.

Nyquist is going to be held until last minute since he isn't as valued as well as Stone and Panarin. Those two are holding the market.

 

[Reddwit]

Hey if Holland wants to go the Oilers and Sabres route and build on high 1st rounders and nothing else I guess that's his prerogative. Because it's worked out so well for them Where is Zadina anyhow? Rasmussen sure looks like a pillar. Mantha could be something I guess. Luck? Are you serious? Did Yzerman just get lucky with Point, Gourde, Palat, Paquette, Cirelli, Johnson, and Kucherov? Are the Tampa Bay Lightning who they are just because of plain dumb good Florida fortune?

Do you just want to prove that you don't know what they're talking?

Detroit got their most important piece and next year's Captain with a non-lottery pick. They got their two future top 4 defenseman late in the 1st and early in the 2nd - also non-lottery picks. Zadina and Rasmussen are both playing in the pros and are just 19, so I'm not sure what you're implying there. You bring up Mantha and throw him a bone but mention nothing of the bigger impact players in Bertuzzi or AA.

Also, your entire center group is made up of 1st rounders. Calgary did f***all with their undrafted/late round picks until the top picks came on board. Hell, Calgary didn't become a contender until they had both the 5th and 6th overall picks from the same draft. If you want to use a laughing emoji, this would be the place to do it.

 

[KodakGinger]

Detroit isn’t gonna get much for Howard, but Nyquist should and will get a first rounder.

 

[Henkka]

No it's stuff my wings fan friends constantly ***** about. An I've also seen it myself. But I get it, it's a trade board so you have to make your players sound better than the are

Howard is a TOP5 goalie from starter workloads at this season. That's kind of a statistical fact.

Best in GSAx are Gibson, Andersen, Vasilevsky Howard and Bishop.

Opinions are just... opinions.

Howard is a hot goalie and Flames are a hot team without a hot goalie. Could see a nice fit on here.

 

[Dotter]

Howard is a TOP5 goalie from starter workloads at this season. That's kind of a statistical fact.

Best in GSAx are Gibson, Andersen, Vasilevsky Howard and Bishop.

Opinions are just... opinions.

Howard is a hot goalie and Flames are a hot team without a hot goalie. Could see a nice fit on here.

They'd rather keep their trash instead of paying for a top 5 goalie (from starter workloads at this season).

I don't really blame them since they're not a contender anyhow.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Wasn't FSD saying a couple nights ago that Howard is #3 in the league in 5v5 SV%?

Dude totally sucks, lol.

 

[Henkka]

They'd rather keep their trash instead of paying for a top 5 goalie (from starter workloads at this season).

I don't really blame them since they're not a contender anyhow.

Why not. They are as contender as Vegas was on last season.

I think Flames have a good future in Rittich. But if he somewhat fails/gets injured at post season, Mike Smith does only give a crap option for pure fail. He would be good fit on tanking team.

They need incurance policy for Rittich and maybe he can learn something for Howard to become even better on ong run.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Detroit is mostly definitely going to re sign both of them


Close this already

 

[Lunatik]

Spoken like a true never seen him play commenter! His numbers actually look worse than his play this season, as he has been lights out good all year, and on a good team, his numbers would be fantastic.

"you've never watched them play" is always code for I can't refurlte it, but you disagree with me so I'll play this card.

 

[Flameshomer]

My thoughts... Howard and Nyquist are not worth 1sts (in my opinion).

Howard + Nyquist? I would easily give up a 1st and Smith. Would even add a decent prospect that fills Detroit's needs if there is a fit too.

Pretty sure a wings fan and I said something around smith+ 1st 2019 + pospisil for the two of them. I think it's pretty fair for two good rentals.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Hard no to Howard. Gustav would be nice though.

 

[Hobnobs]

No it's stuff my wings fan friends constantly ***** about. An I've also seen it myself. But I get it, it's a trade board so you have to make your players sound better than the are

Sounds like your wings fan friends arent really wings fans or you are remembering stuff that happened years ago during his injury and consistency problems.

 

[blankall]

If Boyle got a 2nd round pick, Nyquist should easily be worth a 1st rounder.

People really need to stop saying this.

One team overpaid for the guy they wanted. Boyle is a huge body and someone was willing to overpay for that. Not every player that is better than Boyle is bringing back a 1st.

 

[Oddbob]

"you've never watched them play" is always code for I can't refurlte it, but you disagree with me so I'll play this card.

HUH? I literally have no idea what you just said!

Howard is much better than anything the Flames currently have, with maybe the exception of Rittich, but he is largely untested and only a small sample size. That and his save percentage is no better than a goalie who is playing on a third worst team in the league right now.

Fine if you don't want Howard, and maybe he is not the answer for the Calgary Flames, but don't blindly run down someone, when you very clearly already proved you know nothing about them.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Howard and Nyquist aren't being traded in the same deal, period.

 

[Hobnobs]

Howard and Nyquist aren't being traded in the same deal, period.

If a team offers a 1st + 2 A prospects + an UFA Im sure Holland will take it.

Would you say no if Flames offer were 1st 2019 + Kylington + Dube + Smith?

Calm yourself Flames fans. Not an actual proposal just an example to make a point.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I don't know. Not sure if there's going to be a ton of buyers among teams who actually think they have a shot out there and plenty of more attractive pieces than Nyquist.

What you're missing here and probably should have been offered up way earlier in the thread is the Wings are interested in re-signing Howard and Nyquist. They have had discussions with both and Jimmy in particular seems willing to get something done in terms of a couple year contract that fits the rebuild model with the team. Nyquist is a big part of Larkin being a point per game player for the last 40 games. Yes Larkin is the driver and having a phenomenal year, but extending Nyquist with that chemistry for three to four years if he would accept that isn't the worst thing.

So you're chasing the two players they do have decent interest in bringing back and have both gone on record wanting to stay in Detroit. Nyquist also has to waive though I think he would for Calgary. But still, the offer has to make sense to moving on from them. What they are going to want if you don't send at least a 1st is one of your young stud D-man. Respectfully there just isn't enough in this attempt to move the needle. As a Wings fan you hope somebody beats this out, I would consider it for Howard alone since I think he re-signs in Detroit regardless of trade on July 1st, but this isn't enough for both. Though I do love the fit. Honestly I think Nyquist might be able to mesh with Bennett and bring out his best or Neal. He likes playing with big heavy players or fast skaters, good playmaker that takes advantage of space. His best linemates have been Larkin and Franzen so finding him speed and power which I see on the Flames roster is an ideal fit.

I would think they would have a good read on Pettersen with Larsson in Denver, Horcoff has likely seen him in person a few times when checking in on him this year.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Howard and Nyquist aren't being traded in the same deal, period.

I think Holland is willing to listen on both guys. The reality is that is a tough package to get with 10 million in cap space moving as well.

But a 1st or one of the big D-man would have to be involved, honestly probably both if you want both. But that would likely be all they would need to do. Pick the D prospect you aren't quite as high on (man I wish they still had Fox as a Wings fan) and 1st which won't be that high especially if you put these two on the team with just removing Smith I think that pretty much closes the door on Vegas and locks in the West second round to Sharks vs Flames and Preds vs Jets barring big injuries that change that picture. I think the Wings should be willing to take another shorter term dump if you get both pieces and not just Smith if that helped. That is enough futures to flip the players. I do wonder with Howard likely to re-sign in Detroit if that would bother the teams pursuing him.

Does anybody remember to Backlund and Nyquist play on Sweden together on a line, I feel like the have at some point...

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Detroit is mostly definitely going to re sign both of them


Close this already

Yep talk is Howard will definitely be resigned before the TDL, According to Friedman Jensen probably as well. Khan just said that Holland hopes to have Nyquist, Howard and Jensen all locked up before the TDL in 16 days.

 

[The Red Line]

The cap dump of Smith doesn't matter. Helps your tank even. Stone, while he's had a difficult time the last calendar year I don't see as a cap dump. This is a guy who recently as 2016-17 was averaging 20 minutes a night in Arizona. For a versatile bottom 4 guy you could do a lot worse. Scored 36 points in 2015-16 for the Coyotes. I think the Wings blueline could find some value in a guy like that for a year.

Just because a player's value might be this or that doesn't mean that's what they'll get. Really depends on the market, and I see a lot more sellers than buyers this year.

The prospect in this trade is getting overlooked here. MEP is 2nd in scoring only to Josh Farabee(2018 #14OV) for NCAA players under the age of 19. 9th in players U20, ahead of several recent 1st and 2nd rounders like Wahlstrom(2018 #11OV), Bowers(2017 #28OV), Iskhakov(2018 #43OV), Drury(2018 #42OV), and Norris(2017 #19OV), Samuelsson(2018 #32OV), O'Brien(2018 #19OV). He's tied with Rangers prospect K'Andre Miller(D) 2018 #22OV with 22 pts. He's just 2 behind Poehling 2018 #25OV and 3 behind Quinn Hughes(D) 2018 #7OV who are all 19 or 20 years old.

As recently as? That was two years ago. Not sure you know what the word recent means. Not to mention he hasn't skated since November and may never play again.

It was a terrible, terrible proposal, but this justification of it is even worse.