Sorry, what? How in the f*** is he worse than his numbers indicate when he plays on one of the worst teams with one of the worst collections of individual defenseman? And have you seen the difference between Bernier's numbers and Howard's?
Proposal: Nyquist and Howard to the Flames
- Thread starter Bounces R Way
- Start date
Sorry, what? How in the f*** is he worse than his numbers indicate when he plays on one of the worst teams with one of the worst collections of individual defenseman? And have you seen the difference between Bernier's numbers and Howard's?
Hobnobs
Pinko
- Nov 29, 2011
- 9,286
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Have you even watched a Red Wings game this year? This team has a bad defense when they are healthy, but when pretty much the entire blue line has been injured at some point this year... Howard has been just about the only bright spot on this year on a consistent basis. He's also missed comparatively little time. Howard will give up the bad goal here and there, but he's also capable of standing on his head for months at a time. The Flames should trade their 1st for him, they have a real chance to do some damage this season, would be a shame to blow it due to goal-tending.
Flameshomer
Likeaholic
DFF
Registered User
- Feb 28, 2002
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LOL
I cant even remember the last time somebody paid a first for a rental goalie
Howard is old over the hill just like Elliot and Smith...those type of experiment never worked out.
Howard AND Nyquist may get you a first but Howard alone is not anywhere close to a first.
- Oct 12, 2012
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No it's stuff my wings fan friends constantly bitch about. An I've also seen it myself. But I get it, it's a trade board so you have to make your players sound better than the are
- Oct 12, 2012
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No one will give you a first for howard, if they do tue should be fired immediately
WingsMJN2965
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Bounces R Way
Registered User
WingsMJN2965
Registered User
- Oct 13, 2017
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Oh sorry, you added in two other assets of little to no value. My bad for only focusing on the one thing of any value.
Bounces R Way
Registered User
Little surprising coming from a Wings fan. Let us see if we can spot the trend here:
Henrik Zetterberg
Center -- shoots L
Born Oct 9 1980 -- Njurunda, Sweden
[38 yrs. ago]
Height 6.00 -- Weight 197 [183 cm/89 kg]
Drafted by Detroit Red Wings
- round 7 #210 overall 1999 NHL Entry Draft
Pavel Datsyuk
Center -- shoots L
Born Jul 20 1978 -- Sverdlovsk, Russia
[40 yrs. ago]
Height 5.11 -- Weight 194 [180 cm/88 kg]
Drafted by Detroit Red Wings
- round 6 #171 overall 1998 NHL Entry Draft
Nicklas Lidstrom
Defense
Born Apr 28 1970 -- Vasteras, Sweden
[48 yrs. ago]
Height 6.02 -- Weight 190 [188 cm/86 kg]
Drafted by Detroit Red Wings
- round 3 #53 overall 1989 NHL Entry Draft
Chris Osgood
Goalie
Born Nov 26 1972 -- Peace River, ALTA
[46 yrs. ago]
Height 5.10 -- Weight 175 [178 cm/79 kg]
Drafted by Detroit Red Wings
- round 3 #54 overall 1991 NHL Entry Draft
Johan Franzen
Right Wing -- shoots L
Born Dec 23 1979 -- Vetlanda, Sweden
[39 yrs. ago]
Height 6.04 -- Weight 232 [193 cm/105 kg]
Drafted by Detroit Red Wings
- round 3 #97 overall 2004 NHL Entry Draft
Tomas Holmstrom
Left Wing -- shoots L
Born Jan 23 1973 -- Pitea, Sweden
[46 yrs. ago]
Height 6.00 -- Weight 198 [183 cm/90 kg]
Drafted by Detroit Red Wings
- round 10 #257 overall 1994 NHL Entry Draft
Sergei Fedorov
Center
Born Dec 13 1969 -- Pskov, Russia
[49 yrs. ago]
Height 6.01 -- Weight 200 [185 cm/91 kg]
Drafted by Detroit Red Wings
- round 4 #74 overall 1989 NHL Entry Draft
Igor Larionov
Center -- shoots L
Born Dec 3 1960 -- Voskresensk, Russia
[58 yrs. ago]
Height 5.09 -- Weight 170 [175 cm/77 kg]
Drafted by Vancouver Canucks
- round 11 #214 overall 1985 NHL Entry Draft
Kris Draper
Center
Born May 24 1971 -- Toronto, ONT
[47 yrs. ago]
Height 5.11 -- Weight 190 [180 cm/86 kg]
Drafted by Winnipeg Jets
- round 3 #62 overall 1989 NHL Entry Draft
Kirk Maltby
Left Wing -- shoots R
Born Dec 22 1972 -- Guelph, ONT
[46 yrs. ago]
Height 6.00 -- Weight 200 [183 cm/91 kg]
Drafted by Edmonton Oilers
- round 3 #65 overall 1992 NHL Entry Draft
Luc Robitaille
Left Wing
Born Feb 17 1966 -- Montreal, PQ
[52 yrs. ago]
Height 6.01 -- Weight 204 [185 cm/93 kg]
Drafted by Los Angeles Kings
- round 9 #171 overall 1984 NHL Entry Draft
Brett Hull
Right Wing
Born Aug 9 1964 -- Belleville, ONT
[54 yrs. ago]
Height 5.10 -- Weight 200 [178 cm/91 kg]
Drafted by Calgary Flames
- round 6 #117 overall 1984 NHL Entry Draft
WingsMJN2965
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One of whom was drafted in this century. Detroit used to live off other teams' failure to fully scout every nook and cranny of the world. That's not happening anymore. Steals are almost solely based off absolute luck anymore, or picking off the radar due to their size. (Gaudreau, Debrincat, etc.)
By the way, just because you can swipe a steal in the draft doesn't mean you accept an underpayment. Detroit can likely get a 1st out of Nyquist. You want Nyquist AND Howard AND to dump Smith and the best piece you're giving back is a 2nd. The offer is trash.
- Oct 12, 2012
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WingsMJN2965
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Gladly. I'm not the one who offered a 2nd + trash for a guy that'd be your 5th highest scorer and a goalie better than either of the ones you currently have.
Bounces R Way
Registered User
Hey if Holland wants to go the Oilers and Sabres route and build on high 1st rounders and nothing else I guess that's his prerogative. Because it's worked out so well for them
Where is Zadina anyhow? Rasmussen sure looks like a pillar. Mantha could be something I guess. Luck? Are you serious? Did Yzerman just get lucky with Point, Gourde, Palat, Paquette, Cirelli, Johnson, and Kucherov? Are the Tampa Bay Lightning who they are just because of plain dumb good Florida fortune? If you had actually maybe looked into the prospect I included in the deal you might be able to recognize he could be a potential off the radar steal due to his size(early yes, but that's the kind of gamble you need to make to have a successful rebuild). Since you didn't I'll reiterate
The prospect in this trade is getting overlooked here. MEP is 2nd in scoring only to Josh Farabee(2018 #14OV) for NCAA players under the age of 19. 9th in players U20, ahead of several recent 1st and 2nd rounders like Wahlstrom(2018 #11OV), Bowers(2017 #28OV), Iskhakov(2018 #43OV), Drury(2018 #42OV), and Norris(2017 #19OV), Samuelsson(2018 #32OV), O'Brien(2018 #19OV). He's tied with Rangers prospect K'Andre Miller(D) 2018 #22OV with 22 pts. He's just 2 behind Poehling 2018 #25OV and 3 behind Quinn Hughes(D) 2018 #7OV who are all 19 or 20 years old.
Gustav Nyquist has a career high of 54 points. He has 8 points in 35 career playoff games. Brian freaking Boyle has 20 more and just got a 2nd. Good luck finding that all important golden goose 1st rd pick.
WingsMJN2965
Registered User
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Hey if Holland wants to go the Oilers and Sabres route and build on high 1st rounders and nothing else I guess that's his prerogative. Because it's worked out so well for them
I couldn't even get past this point just because of the sheer foolishness.
Zadina is in the AHL where he belongs, until he can boost his strength and conditioning. If Detroit were trying to be like Edmonton, as you say, they'd have brought him into the league before he was ready, much like this guy named Puljujarvi. By the way, Zadina's doing quite well as a D+1 in a men's league.
Rasmussen is a pillar, you're right. Or did you not understand why Detroit drafted a 6' 6" monster who can move well? Lord knows those guys grow on trees.
By the way, if Detroit were trying to be like Edmonton, they'd have a couple superstars with zero depth. Detroit's already drafted their young depth, and now the need is to draft their core, hence why your garbage picks do us nothing.
No amount of examples of steals is going to convince anybody that you can get away with grabbing Nyquist and Howard for trash. But I'll tell you what, since you drafted Gaudreau with a 4th, we'd be more than willing to give you one for Tkachuk.
- Oct 12, 2012
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No, you're just the one assuming someone is trash because you don't know anything about them. Nyquist has 20 fewer points than any of our top 5 scorers and wouldn't be in our top 6 if he came here, he'd be moved to the left side and not be able to leech off Larkin anymore. As for Howard being better than either of our goalies, that is just downright laughable, much like your team as a whole.
WingsMJN2965
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Math must not be your strong suit, because 46+20 = 66 and there's only one Flame that has that many.
But yeah, Nyquist wouldn't be in your top 6.
Oddbob
Registered User
- Jan 21, 2016
- 16,674
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Spoken like a true never seen him play commenter! His numbers actually look worse than his play this season, as he has been lights out good all year, and on a good team, his numbers would be fantastic.
Bounces R Way
Registered User
I couldn't even get past this point just because of the sheer foolishness.
Seems like a bit of a habit of yours, picking and choosing what you want to see and respond to. Guess your not interested in a discussion after all. I'll wait with baited breath on Howard and Nyquist each returning the world. Or whatever world is left after Panarin, Bobrovsky, Duchene, Stone, Zuccarello, Hayes, Dzingel, Silfverberg, Faulk, Burakovsky, Johansson, Simmonds, Brassard, Ferland, Maroon and whoever else that may be on the block get moved. I know you guys are new to this whole rebuild thing, but as a general rule having more draft picks the better it goes.
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WingsMJN2965
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This coming from the guy who refuses to acknowledge that being able to draft a steal once every 5 years means we can underpay you for your assets.
You also apparently didn't get the part about how Detroit doesn't need depth picks anymore. They've got their depth. So no, we don't need your trash depth picks. We'll get our 1st for Nyquist, and we'll likely keep Howard.
EDIT: BTW, I like how after Dzingel, not a single guy on your list even comes within 15 points of Nyquist. You really included Burakovsky and Maroon?
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Dotter
THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
I saw this thread title and got excited. Then saw the actual proposal and am out...
Make a new thread with a fair trade proposal and I'll participate.
see ya
Make a new thread with a fair trade proposal and I'll participate.
see ya
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