Nylander's Holdout is About a lot More Than Willy and the Leafs

[TheMule93]

I dont blame him. I wouldn't want to take a paycut so my coworkers (Marner, Matthews) could get paid more either.

 

[SwaggySpungo]

I dont blame him. I wouldn't want to take a paycut so my coworkers (Marner, Matthews) could get paid more either.

He was offered a giant raise, not a pay cut.

 

[JPeeper]

It's an interesting situation because his agent is the same one Guaudreau has and when Gaudreau got his contract signed it was pretty much last minute before the season started, but Gaudreau signed.

Gaudreau makes $6.75 mil and most definitely should be making more in contrast to what he actually does out there, but there are a lot of star players at that $6 mil threshold like Pasta, Monahan, Ehlers, Scheifele, MacKinnon, Barkov, etc.

If I were to guess it is a combination of Draisaitl's horrific overpayment of a contract + Toronto giving Tavaers $11mil (which he would have gotten from any team, some even more) so Nylander wants $8 mil and isn't budging at all and for Toronto it is just an overpayment and I'd agree. If Nylander would take $6 mil like every else around him he'd be signed already.

 

[ozzie]

I personally think they should trade him. If they can get a good defender, game changer for the current team. I'd also look at trying to trade him to the worst possible team/city possible, where he can drown for years, regretting every minute of this. . But that's just me. The Leafs have enough talent up front.

 

[Sam Spade]

I dont blame him. I wouldn't want to take a paycut so my coworkers (Marner, Matthews) could get paid more either.

I don't often take the players side because I feel like on these bigger contracts the owners take all the risk, but in this case I agree with Nylander. Especially after Shananan's little "we took less in Detroit" garbage a few weeks ago.

Matthews and Marner won't take a penny less than the max available to them, neither should Nylander.

The biggest winner here is Kapanen who with every point he puts up gets a little more money coming off of his ELC.

 

[zizbuka]

I would be surprised if NYlander continued his holdout long term. He's losing quite a bit of money each passing day.

Could be the PA putting pressure on him too. The PA wants a big contract for the trickle down effect. There have been times, in other sports, where a player said he didn't want to hold out but felt the pressure for players that come after him.

I think it's stupid, but that's how it is.

 

[frag2]

It's an interesting situation because his agent is the same one Guaudreau has and when Gaudreau got his contract signed it was pretty much last minute before the season started, but Gaudreau signed.

Gaudreau makes $6.75 mil and most definitely should be making more in contrast to what he actually does out there, but there are a lot of star players at that $6 mil threshold like Pasta, Monahan, Ehlers, Scheifele, MacKinnon, Barkov, etc.

If I were to guess it is a combination of Draisaitl's horrific overpayment of a contract + Toronto giving Tavaers $11mil (which he would have gotten from any team, some even more) so Nylander wants $8 mil and isn't budging at all and for Toronto it is just an overpayment and I'd agree. If Nylander would take $6 mil like every else around him he'd be signed already.

It’s basically this. I think if Dubas didn’t pay Tavares 11, then it would be easier math for them. The fact they paid Tavares 11, Matthews will likely request that and then some.

Nylander isn’t taking 50% of Matthews cap. It’s also the same reason Marner didn’t sign. He knows he’s probably just as good as Matthews so why rush.

 

[Critical13]

I think Nylander's situation is unique because it has become quite obvious that he doesn't want to play 4th fiddle to Matthews, Marner, and Tavares. The Leafs will likely trade him to upgrade their D and Nylander's new team will give him the money and recognition he deserves.

My 2 cents.

What on earth is this based on?

• Doesn't want to be 4th fiddle
• Doesn't get money and recognition he deserves

Sorry, but what exactly does he deserve in your mind?

 

[Newsworthy]

Could be the PA putting pressure on him too. The PA wants a big contract for the trickle down effect. There have been times, in other sports, where a player said he didn't want to hold out but felt the pressure for players that come after him.

I think it's stupid, but that's how it is.

Most professional sports Players Union are unhappy when their members take less money.

 

[Newsworthy]

Could be the PA putting pressure on him too. The PA wants a big contract for the trickle down effect. There have been times, in other sports, where a player said he didn't want to hold out but felt the pressure for players that come after him.

I think it's stupid, but that's how it is.

Most professional sports Players Union are unhappy when their members take less money.

 

[Ainec]

I like Dubas, I think he's a good GM

but I'd be willing to bet a lot he low-balled Nylander

I don't blame him for trying

 

[nuxnuxnux]

It’s basically this. I think if Dubas didn’t pay Tavares 11, then it would be easier math for them. The fact they paid Tavares 11, Matthews will likely request that and then some.

Nylander isn’t taking 50% of Matthews cap. It’s also the same reason Marner didn’t sign. He knows he’s probably just as good as Matthews so why rush.

The leafs better win it all this year because they kind of shot themselves in the foot by signing Tavares, now Matthews will want 11+ and marner will want something close to Matthews.

 

[mouser]

Negotiation strategy from Dubas to Nylander is:

The longer you wait the more money you will get, all I care about is your cap hit. I will give you all signing bonus money this year so you lose as little as possible.

No. This is one of those misunderstandings I've been trying to stomp out with limited success.

If we assume Nylander has the option of signing today, vs signing sometime in the future before the Dec 1st deadline. There are three possible outcomes of delaying the Nylander signing:

A) Nylander makes more money; Leafs have a higher cap hit in year 2+.

B) Nylander makes less money; Leafs have a lower cap hit in year 2+.

C) Nylander makes the same amount of money; Leafs have the same cap hit in year 2+.

There is no magical fourth option where Nylander makes more money and the Leafs have a lower year 2+ cap hit by delaying a Nylander signing. The Year 2+ cap hit is entirely based on precisely how much money Nylander ends up with in his pocket.

 

[Coach]

Kapanen is producing and the Leafs are winning. He's losing money by the day. What leverage?

Tampa is pulling away and will be tough for Toronto to beat them in the playoffs without home ice advantage. I guess Toronto has nothing to lose if they don't care about winning this year. If they care about this year then there definitely is leverage on Nylanders side as December 1st approaches. Unless you believe Nylander gives Toronto no greater chance to win this season. Then correct no leverage.

 

[Morbo]

Tampa is pulling away and will be tough for Toronto to beat them in the playoffs without home ice advantage. I guess Toronto has nothing to lose if they don't care about winning this year. If they care about this year then there definitely is leverage on Nylanders side as December 1st approaches. Unless you believe Nylander gives Toronto no greater chance to win this season. Then correct no leverage.

huh?

 

[Divine]

I don't understand the premise in this thread. How is Nylander taking a paycut? Does anyone here think he's worth 8M a year today? He's worth around 6 - 6.5M X 6 on a second contract. He's shooting for the moon and should sit. If he misses a year of NHL hockey, that's another 6M+ he has to recoup. So unless he thinks that sitting out a year gets him 8M+ next year (it won't), he has no leverage here. Even if he went to arbitration (he doesn't have rights), he wouldn't get 8M.

This has nothing to do with a player taking less, more about greed IMO. Again, this is all based on the premise that he is looking for 8M. Edmonton screwed everyone with that BS Draisaitl contract because now every agent will use it as a comparable. There's no other comparables.

 

[Coach]

huh?

Tampa is ahead in points and has also played less games. Is that too hard for you to understand.

 

[LABound]

Could be the PA putting pressure on him too. The PA wants a big contract for the trickle down effect. There have been times, in other sports, where a player said he didn't want to hold out but felt the pressure for players that come after him.

I think it's stupid, but that's how it is.

Stated this from the offset .


If you can look past the perception of him being greedy not a team player etc.......

it's a billion dollar negotiation

 

[Bounces R Way]

You're somewhat right in almost all regards but absolutely wrong about one: There is no pressure on Dubas. He holds all the cards. Leafs could use Nylander but in no way need him. The only person that stands to lose anything in all of this is Nylander.

I doubt very much Nylander's motives are as altruistic as what you imply but even if they were, the proper forum for this battle is the CBA negotiating table, not the player contract negotiating table.

Dubas might hold most of the cards, but I think it's fallacious to say he's holding all of them. Nylander could ask for a trade, publicly make his demands known and what he's been offered, or just play in his home nation of Sweden until he's happy with the situation. I don't think he's the only person that stands to lose anything either, the Leafs have a valuable young asset that's not producing for them at this moment, every week that goes by diminishes the value of that asset somewhat.

We can only guess on Nylander's motives but I'm sure there's a lot of guys nearing the end of their ELCs that are paying close attention. The NHLPA has a largely veteran leadership core, there's still a lot of old guard left, this is an assumption but I think they'd be more inclined to worry about the 27+ group's price potential rather than the younger crew.

You are making many statements as if they are confirmed/studied facts. Are they facts or just your suspicions?

I am looking through the list of recent Stanley Cup winners/finalists and it's not 20 year olds on ELCs that are driving the bus.

Well, without knowing which statements you're referring to I can't really answer. The prior contract examples are facts. Most of the rest is just one guy's opinion on the internet, if that doesn't mean spit to you(not sure why it would) then so be it. Nylander isn't a 20 year old on an ELC either, but the Capitals just finally broke through and won a Stanley Cup thanks in large part to Kuznetsov in the first year of his 8 year 62.4 million dollar contract.

 

[bukwas]

I don't often take the players side because I feel like on these bigger contracts the owners take all the risk, but in this case I agree with Nylander. Especially after Shananan's little "we took less in Detroit" garbage a few weeks ago.

Matthews and Marner won't take a penny less than the max available to them, neither should Nylander.

The biggest winner here is Kapanen who with every point he puts up gets a little more money coming off of his ELC.

Yeah, they'll do the same thing nearly every player in the league does.

 

[Lempo]

While I agree, the Leafs are definitely offering Nylander a fair to more than fair deal. He's balking at what is said to be a $6M-$6.5M/year offer from Toronto, which is strange considering that a comparable player in Ehlers makes $6M/year, while a clearly superior player in Pastrnak makes $6.66M/year.

Accepting a fair-price SPC would make Nylander an obvious lucrative trade bait and put Toronto in full control of where he ends up going for the next 6-8 years without Nylander having any say on that once he has signed. Hilariously his holding out has further made it pretty clear that currently he's a luxury piece for TML.

I don't find it wholly impossible that Nylander would be trying pre-emptively to take his destiny in his own hands here now and force that trade now as a sign&trade to a location and a roster set that's to his liking.

 

[pigpen65]

Leafs plan for affording Tavares included lowballing Nylander. Obviously Nylander is not going to be ok with that. It's not a holdout, it's closer to a lockout. Trade him to a team that can pay him what he deserves and take some business classes at a night school so you are more prepared for the next time.

 

[Oddbob]

This is has nothing to do with anything more than GREED! He had 2 good seasons, and is being offered good money for that, he simply wants a LOT more, end of story!

 

[Helistin]

This is has nothing to do with anything more than GREED! He had 2 good seasons, and is being offered good money for that, he simply wants a LOT more, end of story!

How much was the good money that was offered?

 

[Snauen]

Leafs plan for affording Tavares included lowballing Nylander. Obviously Nylander is not going to be ok with that. It's not a holdout, it's closer to a lockout. Trade him to a team that can pay him what he deserves and take some business classes at a night school so you are more prepared for the next time.

I agree whit this. Tavares took Nylanders spot in all kinds of ways here. Time to move on, the Rangers is a good fit I think.