Speculation: Nylander XXI - all Nylander discussion here (MOD WARNING IN OP)

[Tavares to Marner]

Yeah, that's nice but he doesn't really put up points and we're talking about a reliable 60 point forward who is even younger than Slavin. Not that points are the only thing that matters with a d-man at all, but a reliable d-man who doesn't score all that much doesn't generally have such astronomical value. Nylander scores a ton and is very young, Liljegren is a pretty highly touted d-prospect who isn't far from the NHL.

60 point 22 year olds aren't cheap. 19 year old top tier d-prospects aren't cheap. I don't think that's an unfair deal at all.

The problem is slavin is really good at what he does and pretty much makes Toronto cup favorites, his offense would also being going up a ton with a partner like rielly and a team like Toronto

 

[34]

A guy who scores 10+ goals, 40+ points from the blueline with an excellent defensive game is worth a 60 point rfa holdout winger?

If Pesce scored like you suggested, no one in their right mind would trade him for the right to overpay Nylander, esp. not now, when he effectively has a ntc.

Great. No deal

 

[Chan790]

So trading assets for two much older players is better than a player that actually fits your age bracket of your team?

Now I get why you might think Faulk is acceptable in a proposal with the leafs.

Yes.

Rather pay less for a guy to fill a two-year need and keep our overwhelming defensive strength on D. It's what wins us games. Nylander isn't going to suddenly make us a team that outguns people...but moving either Slavin or Pesce is going to make us a sieve that can't stop anybody. Also, our answers on O are in house: Svech, Aho, Necas, Kuok...we just need to wait for them to mature.

It's not about Faulk for Nylander as I wouldn't take that either...but the pieces you want make this not a worthwhile trade pursuit for the Canes.

 

[Tavares to Marner]

Is it though? If Canes wants better offense NOW, is Gardiner or Liljegren a better choice... TODAY?

Canes I think would rather have a future piece with Nylander rather than a UFA

 

[mashedpotato]

Like who?

Like, look at the league and think about whom you'd like to see in a Leaf Uniform other than Nylander. If your imagination stops @ Pesce, then I'd say you're not looking hard enough.

No one in CAR has named Pesce expendable so you're not limited to any number of players either.

 

[haveandare]

A guy who scores 10+ goals, 40+ points from the blueline with an excellent defensive game is worth a 60 point rfa holdout winger?

If Pesce scored like you suggested, no one in their right mind would trade him for the right to overpay Nylander, esp. not now, when he effectively has an ntc.



Generally unsigned rfa holdouts are traded for draft picks/prospects, not position players.

Is there a comparison for a player this young with this proven scoring going for draft picks and prospects?

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Is there a comparison for a player this young with this proven scoring going for draft picks and prospects?

Phil Kessel.
Dougie Hamilton.
Kyle Turris (though he signed with the understanding he would later get moved)
Travis Hamonic.

 

[varano]

Like, look at the league and think about whom you'd like to see in a Leaf Uniform other than Nylander. If your imagination stops @ Pesce, then I'd say you're not looking hard enough.

No one in CAR has named Pesce expendable so you're not limited to any number of players either.

I look at teams that actually have depth to trade for and contracts that match.

If you want me to just name anybody then yeah sure i'd like drew doughty

 

[34]

Everyone here is acting like Dubas has a gun to his head to trade Nylander. That is such a bad take, Toronto has no reason to trade Willy. The team is arguably the deepest team in the NHL. If a deal with the Leafs is not done by Saturday, he simply sits out.

Dubas is not going to trade him for lesser pieces, in panic mode. Not happening!

 

[Fogelhund]

Canes I think would rather have a future piece with Nylander rather than a UFA

Maybe they would... I don't know... I doubt that they'd move Slavin for future pieces at all.... no reason to do that. Really, I doubt they move Slavin anyway.....

The only argument that I can make, to move him, is that they want to improve their offense today. Lily is 3-5 years away from having the offense that Gardiner does, so I can't see a fit there at all... even if in a vacuum, someone thinks Lily has more value. It's not just a question of maximizing trade value, but the question of motivation. Why would Carolina even consider moving a Slavin? To be better "maybe" in 3-5 years is not the answer a GM is looking for. The only way they do move him, is to improve the team today from an offensive perspective. Gardiner does that, Lily doesn't.

 

[is the answer jesus]

Toronto does not need to trade Nylander. No rush.

I don't think they "need to", but as a Sabres fan who watched Mike Peca sit an entire year only to get a so so return for him the following off-season I do think letting him sit the year isn't a very smart option. If you get a fair offer then trade him. If not sign him, and look for a trade partner in the off-season. I don't think you'll get a player anywhere near the caliber of Slavin for Nylander. I won't speak in absolutes and say Slavin for Nylander will never happen, because I've seen some very stupid trades throughout the years. I wouldn't count on it though. If it is something around Nylander for Pesce I think Carolina will be adding something significant on top of Pesce. Leaf fans may not like splitting a dime into two nickels, but it "may" be an option for Dubas to get the potential cap crunch issue solved here and now, instead of kicking the can down the road.

 

[Leafs87]

Phil Kessel.
Dougie Hamilton.
Kyle Turris (though he signed with the understanding he would later get moved)
Travis Hamonic.

Phil Kessel got a long ransom from a lottery team give me 2 1st and 2nd and willly is all yours
Hamilton they wanted gone for whatever reason also there was locker room issues and has since been moved again. Also wouldn’t sing with Boston
Turris was severely more unproven with his early career looking bustish
Hamonic is not on Nylanders level

 

[FalcorMulch]

Kyle Turris (though he signed with the understanding he would later get moved)

Turris was definitely not a proven scorer when he was moved to Ottawa in 2011. He averaged less than 12 goals, 30 points per 82 games on his ELC.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

 

[NDiesel]

Everyone here is acting like Dubas has a gun to his head to trade Nylander. That is such a bad take, Toronto has no reason to trade Willy. The team is arguably the deepest team in the NHL. If a deal with the Leafs is not done by Saturday, he simply sits out.

Dubas is not going to trade him for lesser pieces, in panic mode. Not happening!

Okay, then in your world Nylander sits out - he now has even less value because he takes a year off from NHL paced hockey and now why does he consider signing next year if they let him sit out? Now you just have a wasted asset sitting there.

I think they absolutely need to sign him or trade him. You have a rare year where Matthews and Marner who are worth near double digits are on ELCs....you take advantage of that.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Hamilton they wanted gone for whatever reason also there was locker room issues

It was a cap issue sold in the media as a "culture" issue. Boston tried to sign him and moved him early when he played hardball. Culture was relevant in why they moved on quickly, not why he was moved in the first place.

Seguin was moved b/c lockerroom issues.

I'm not using these for vis a vis conparisons to Nylander. Someone said low offensive dnen like Pesce don't have much value. I'm making the point that rfa holdouts typically don't net position players at all.

Turris was definitely not a proven scorer when he was moved to Ottawa in 2011.

Fair, but he also got little in return.

 

[is the answer jesus]

Everyone here is acting like Dubas has a gun to his head to trade Nylander. That is such a bad take, Toronto has no reason to trade Willy. The team is arguably the deepest team in the NHL. If a deal with the Leafs is not done by Saturday, he simply sits out.

Dubas is not going to trade him for lesser pieces, in panic mode. Not happening!

I thought the same thing about Jason Botterill in reference to Ryan O'Reilly. There was no pressure to move a very good 2 way 60 pt player, and in O'Reillys case he was still under contract for 5 more seasons. In the end Botterill thought getting futures and depth players was a smarter move. The reality is we have no idea what Kyle Dubas would deem the best path to create a stanley cup caliber team. It could very well be to trade Nylander for a solid top 4 defenseman with term like Pesce and futures (prospects, high draft picks) that can extend the Leafs window of contention, while helping with the salary cap. They are already one of the best teams in the league without Nylander.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I thought the same thing about Jason Botterill in reference to Ryan O'Reilly. There was no pressure to move a very good 2 way 60 pt player, and in O'Reillys case he was still under contract for 5 more seasons. In the end Botterill thought getting futures and depth players was a smarter move.

They didn't want to pay the signing bonus. That hurt O'Rielly's value.

 

[haveandare]

Phil Kessel.
Dougie Hamilton.
Kyle Turris (though he signed with the understanding he would later get moved)
Travis Hamonic.

Good call. I'd say Kessel is the closest comparable but the sample size is pretty tiny here for players of this caliber as rfa holdouts.

 

[varano]

It was a cap issue sold in the media as a "culture" issue. Boston tried to sign him and moved him early when he played hardball. Culture was relevant in why they moved on quickly, not why he was moved in the first place.

Seguin was moved b/c lockerroom issues.

I'm not using these for vis a vis conparisons to Nylander. Someone said low offensive dnen like Pesce don't have much value. I'm making the point that rfa holdouts typically don't net position players at all.


Fair, but he also got little in return.

What I had heard was that Calgary was ready to offer sheet Hamilton and instead notified the bruins and worked on a deal to get it done.

Seguin wasnt moved because of locker room issues, he was moved because he was a 3C in their roster and didnt fit the "bruins culture" according to chiarelli.

 

[is the answer jesus]

They didn't want to pay the signing bonus. That hurt O'Rielly's value.

Yeah which was a little odd because Pegula has never been a penny pincher. In the end it was a move to change the culture of the lockerroom and I'm guessing it was the principal of paying O'Reilly that signing bonus that either Botterill, Pegula or both had a problem with.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Seguin wasnt moved because of locker room issues, he was moved because he was a 3C in their roster and didnt fit the "bruins

My bad, i conflated locker room issues and culture issues.

Yeah which was a little odd because Pegula has never been a penny pincher.

My conjecture is Pegula didn't want to give 6 mil or whatever it was to a guy not in the long term plans.

I wish he had, cause canes woulda given buff hanifin and skinner for ror with the sb paid...

 

[mashedpotato]

I look at teams that actually have depth to trade for and contracts that match.

If you want me to just name anybody then yeah sure i'd like drew doughty

hmmm. maybe I should have added more instructions for you

Consider capspace, whether the team would want to trade X for Nylander...

Then come back with a response.

 

[haveandare]

Everyone here is acting like Dubas has a gun to his head to trade Nylander. That is such a bad take, Toronto has no reason to trade Willy. The team is arguably the deepest team in the NHL. If a deal with the Leafs is not done by Saturday, he simply sits out.

Dubas is not going to trade him for lesser pieces, in panic mode. Not happening!

Don't they have to give Matthew and Marner huge raises next year and sign a d-man or two? I'd say the reason to do something with Nylander is that this year they could have all of these guys together and take a real shot at a cup.

Say they make the ECF this year with Nylander sitting out and lose. The question will be would they have won with Nylander or with the return for Nylander? And then next year maybe they have trouble with this or that contract and the questioning about missing out this year grows.

Nothing is certain imo, as we're seeing now. This was supposedly going to be no problem and here we are almost in December. The reason to do something is to cash in and take a shot while the team has all this crazy depth and can very possibly win.

 

[varano]

My bad, i conflated locker room issues and culture issues.

You can find a video on youtube about how they the bruins management came up with seguin needing to leave and not having much potential