Proposal: Nylander+ lilegren+ 2019 1st for ekblad

[unitedstars87]

I would much rather go after Paryko

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I love how Liljgren is a blue chip prospect with great value two years removed from his draft, but JP is a total bust being one year older and three years removed from his.

This will probably be deleted, which is fine, but I'm just fascinated by how the general brain of these forums works. Lots of nuances I clearly don't understand about the game of hockey.

Defensemen take longer to develop than big wingers

 

[Liferleafer]

I love how Liljgren is a blue chip prospect with great value two years removed from his draft, but JP is a total bust being one year older and three years removed from his.

This will probably be deleted, which is fine, but I'm just fascinated by how the general brain of these forums works. Lots of nuances I clearly don't understand about the game of hockey.

You think Poolparty has shown he is progressing? He's been given multiple chances. Nothing says Lil will be a great NHL player...but he is developing well.

 

[GOilers88]

You think Poolparty has shown he is progressing? He's been given multiple chances. Nothing says Lil will be a great NHL player...but he is developing well.

I really didn't intend on derailing the thread. I honestly am entertained at the way players are evaluated around here. But JP has only played a season and a half in the NHL, with much if it involving being buried in the Edmonton oilers bottom six or press box with a coach that clearly had problems with him off the ice as well as on. He has been jerked around like every other high oilers pick before him but has also shown flashes of why he was projected to go where he did. There is a hockey player there, he's just a kid still. A season and a half three years out.

Liljgren is only a year younger, two years out and hasn't played a single game in the NHL yet. He had a good pre draft pedigree, and was slotted in the top five for much of the season heading up to his draft, and he slipped for whatever reasons. But still despite this he retains blue chip status and optimum value despite merely being one year younger, a single year less removed from his draft, and not cracking a league the aforementioned bust had already cracked a year before at the same age.

I've totally derailed this so I apologize. It's just interesting.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Is that really fair considering it was two separate shoulders/injuries? It’s not as if either has been reoccurring. If you watched his performance in the nutcracker, you’d see his shoulder is fine. (Lol)

I’m all for trading Nylander but I’m not sure Ekblad should be the target.

You're right.

 

[shortfuze]

Ekblad is injured too often. Not a fit.

17 games in 4.5 years is to injured?

 

[Morgs]

Is Ekblad even worth Nylander alone?

Lol no.

 

[Morgs]

Defensemen take longer to develop than big wingers

And if anyone watched a Marlies game last season, you could plainly see that Keefe was holding him back.

He took the reigns off one of the youngest D in the AHL this season, and he's on a whole new level. Maybe not points wise, but he's driving play and playing good defense (1st pairing comp). There's a reason the plan was to bring him up after the WJC until he sprained his ankle.

 

[TheProspector]

Liljegren has put up 0.4ppg as a D in the AHL at the age of 19. Players who have done this before 20:

• Voinov
  
• Jonas Brodin
  
• Joe Morrow
  
• Ryan Suter
• Dan Hamhuis
  
• Brent Burns
• Trevor Daley
  
• Kurtis Foster
  
• Ladislav Smid

We've got a pretty good one here. I'd rather just keep Willie and Timoty, thanks.

 

[puckpilot]

Nylander said but Dubas as far as we know didn't. That is called hearsay. This is what Dubas said publicly
There is no mention of a no trade promise to Nylander. That does not mean one was not made, it only means like I said, it is not public knowledge.

I think this link has a better video of his response. Nylander, Dubas relieved to get down to hockey after months-long impasse | CBC Sports

It has a reporter asking Dubas directly about the twitter quote and this is his answer. "I don't know why that's a surprise," Dubas said. "I've been on the record as saying that ... it's our intention to have him here as long as we're here. He’s an excellent young player. I don’t think we want to get in the business of not having excellent young players so that’s how we feel about it."

That bolded part is Dubas affirming that what Nylander said is true. So even though, Dubas didn't used the exact words that Nylander did, its pretty clear what he means.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then its darn duck.

You make it seem like it will make Dubas a bad person (because he broke some promise that isnt even confirmed) and that people wont re-sign there contracts because of it.

The promise is confirmed. See above.

In negotiations, there's a point where everything is agreed to, but nothing has been signed and made legally binding. During this time, you have to trust that the other person will follow through on what was agreed to and not go back on their word.

Under these circumstances if you had a choice to do business with someone you know negotiates in bad faith or with someone who is true to their word, who would you rather deal with?

Another way to frame it is who would your rather be friends with, a liar who says they've got your back but will bail on you the second things get tough or someone who's always true to their word and is always there when you need them?

1. Nylander would be pretty naive to think that he wouldn’t be traded. It’s a business. I would understand Nylander being upset if it happened within the next couple of years. But a lot can change down the road.

2. RFA’s can get NTC until their UFA years.

1 - He's not naive. That's why he was looking for either more money or assurances about not being traded. Just because it's business, doesn't mean it's OK to lie and screw everyone over at the earliest convenience. The hockey world can be a small place, and if you earn a reputation for being dishonest, that's going to make things more difficult during future negotiations.

2 - Sure, like I said, Dubas' promise functions like a NTC,

 

[New Liskeard]

He is big, moves the puck well and has a big right hand shot from the point. He is a southern Ontario boy and has always been spoken of in high regard.
He had a good year in his first year because he was a very hyped and talented first overall pick.
Maybe some of his struggles can be attributed to playing for Florida? And the fact that he is 22?
Seems like the exact kind of player to target.

Or maybe his struggles are related to the multiple concussions he has alreadty had in his early career. He is one more away from retiring.

 

[Ciao]

Do you mean that they won't re-sign Mr. Glass Shoulder ?

Head injuries are much more serious than muscular-skeletal injuries. I don't think the two are comparable.

 

[letsgrowcactus]

LOL at all these "wouldn't even do Ekblad for Nylander straight up". Just why exactly is Florida helping out Toronto by decimating our D to acquire Nylander, who would be an unnecessary luxury?
Until we have another, better top pairing guy (or two), Ekblad is here to stay.

 

[Ciao]

I think this link has a better video of his response. Nylander, Dubas relieved to get down to hockey after months-long impasse | CBC Sports

It has a reporter asking Dubas directly about the twitter quote and this is his answer. "I don't know why that's a surprise," Dubas said. "I've been on the record as saying that ... it's our intention to have him here as long as we're here. He’s an excellent young player. I don’t think we want to get in the business of not having excellent young players so that’s how we feel about it."

That bolded part is Dubas affirming that what Nylander said is true. So even though, Dubas didn't used the exact words that Nylander did, its pretty clear what he means.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then its darn duck.




The promise is confirmed. See above.

In negotiations, there's a point where everything is agreed to, but nothing has been signed and made legally binding. During this time, you have to trust that the other person will follow through on what was agreed to and not go back on their word.

Under these circumstances if you had a choice to do business with someone you know negotiates in bad faith or with someone who is true to their word, who would you rather deal with?

Another way to frame it is who would your rather be friends with, a liar who says they've got your back but will bail on you the second things get tough or someone who's always true to their word and is always there when you need them?



1 - He's not naive. That's why he was looking for either more money or assurances about not being traded. Just because it's business, doesn't mean it's OK to lie and screw everyone over at the earliest convenience. The hockey world can be a small place, and if you earn a reputation for being dishonest, that's going to make things more difficult during future negotiations.

2 - Sure, like I said, Dubas' promise functions like a NTC,

I don't see evidence of a promise or undertaking not to trade Nylander in what's been posted here. I'm not saying that didn't happen -- I really don't know -- but your conclusion that the promise was made based on this evidence is not reasonable.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Lol no.

2 in 11, great stats for a guy worth more than a 1st overall dman at 23 playing 23mins atoi

Nylander straight up doesnt sniff Ekblad, get a grip

 

[Morgs]

2 in 11, great stats for a guy worth more than a 1st overall dman at 23 playing 23mins atoi

Nylander straight up doesnt sniff Ekblad, get a grip

This is embarassing for you, I agree.

 

[WilliamNylander]

2 in 11, great stats for a guy worth more than a 1st overall dman at 23 playing 23mins atoi

Nylander straight up doesnt sniff Ekblad, get a grip

Nylander is better and worth more than Ekblad

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Nylander is better and worth more than Ekblad

Sure he is

Hows Nylander's season going so far?

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Sure he is

Hows Nylander's season going so far?

He just got a new hair cut. Give him a break! 60pt wingers are worth more than a #2/3 D in 2019

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

This is embarassing for you, I agree.

No logical link with the post quoted...

 

[Junohockeyfan]

He just got a new hair cut. Give him a break! 60pt wingers are worth more than a #2/3 D in 2019

How much are 16 pt wingers worth?

 

[Morgs]

No logical link with the post quoted...

And?

 

[puckpilot]

I don't see evidence of a promise or undertaking not to trade Nylander in what's been posted here. I'm not saying that didn't happen -- I really don't know -- but your conclusion that the promise was made based on this evidence is not reasonable.

Umm... no evidence? Not reasonable? Come on, seriously. Did you even read any of this thread at all?



Let's ask John Wensink what he thinks about all this denial.

 

[Henchmen 21]

If Toronto were to pay Nylanders signing bonus it would have to be after the 2019 draft is already over. Yep that's the ONLY reason this trade wouldn't happen

 

[Ciao]

Umm... no evidence? Not reasonable? Come on, seriously. Did you even read any of this thread at all?



Let's ask John Wensink what he thinks about all this denial.

I see Nylander but not Dubas saying that.

What Dubas says is different and much more qualified, as far as I can tell. Maybe there's more I haven't seen.

I'm not denying there was a promise, but I just don't know, despite what Johnny W says!