Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[ACC1224]

That’s great and all but there’s been a cult desperate to prove this verbal NMC and they haven’t been able to pull up any direct yes or no answer, just vague intentions. Dubas already takes the flack from people thinking this is real, why not just straight up admit it at this point?

Again, why would Nylander sign a deal without the NMC if this was the real agreement. It’s like saying it’s your intention to always stay faithful to your wife in your vows but also asking her to sign off on a list 20 women you’re allowed to sleep with.

Could he have a full NMC on the first year of the contract?

 

[Gary Nylund]

That’s great and all but there’s been a cult desperate to prove this verbal NMC and they haven’t been able to pull up any direct yes or no answer, just vague intentions. Dubas already takes the flack from people thinking this is real, why not just straight up admit it at this point?

Again, why would Nylander sign a deal without the NMC if this was the real agreement. It’s like saying it’s your intention to always stay faithful to your wife in your vows but also asking her to sign off on a list 20 women you’re allowed to sleep with.

As I said, Dubas realized he did a dumb thing so obfuscation was what he did.

He's with a new team, this is ancient history, if he decided obfuscation was better than admitting he did something stupid, why would change his tack now?

As far as "why would Nylander ...", hard to say for sure as I wasn't in the room. I'd say first of all, not even M&M got a full NMC for the entire term of their contracts so Nylander getting simply isn't realistic. My best guess is that was just something dumb Dubas said in the conversation they had and that's it.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Could he have a full NMC on the first year of the contract?

No and that’s the only year the verbal NTC extends to as far as I’m concerned. He didn’t want to be in a sign-and-trade situation like Tkachuk’s, all the signs were pointing to that being likely with Tavares coming it at 11 and us needing help on D. As soon as Nylander was able to get written trade protection, he got significantly less than Matthews and Marner, clearly both sides acknowledged there may come a time where it’s best for both parties to move on.

 

[ITM]

This nonsense all goes back to Dumbass caving to Nylander the first time , I said it here then and I'll say it again now . If Kyle Dumbass tells Nylander have fun in Sweden , we are cancalling your players insurance but retaining your rights so don't get hurt and when you come back next year the 5.5 we offered this year will be 4.5 have fun . Holding the line would have meant no 11 million for Mathews and no 10 million for Marner , The Leafs would have been able to sign them for at least 2 million less each at the very minimum given the short term they were demanding , Hopefully Treliving will not repeat the mistakes of the past , He really needs to tell Nylander this is the deal take it or leave it and if you don't sign before camp starts you will have a new home the day our camp starts .

For timeline purposes - and forgive me if I missed the mention - I don’t think I saw Tavares’ name mentioned in your post.

 

[ToneDog]

He was paid based some the trendy metrics and production rates however out of approx 30 salary cap post ELC notable contracts for wingers we paid him the 7th highest rate for that production..



Rantanen did not produce at the same rate as marner and this post elc contract paid him the 3rd highest relative to production out of the above mention pool of examples - however in rantanens case colorado bet correctly as he has become a easily top 10 winger in the game arguably top 5

Yup Marner was $1.65m better than Rantanen after their first three years. Ranta also busier scoring more goals (80 to 67). Seriously who takes Marner @ 10.893 x 6 over Ranta @ 9.25m x 8 ?

 

[socko]

Rantanen did not produce at the same rate as marner and this post elc contract paid him the 3rd highest relative to production out of the above mention pool of examples - however in rantanens case colorado bet correctly as he has become a easily top 10 winger in the game arguably top 5

Did you bother to look this up?

Marner: 82 games, 26 goals, 94 points, new contract $10.9 x 6
Rantanen: 74 games, 31 goals, 87 points, new contract $9.25 x 6

Rantanen projected to 82 games: 34 goals, 96 points
Rantanen signed after waiting out Mitch's new contract.
Yet, Mitch's contract is 18% higher.

 

[ACC1224]

No and that’s the only year the verbal NTC extends to as far as I’m concerned. He didn’t want to be in a sign-and-trade situation like Tkachuk’s, all the signs were pointing to that being likely with Tavares coming it at 11 and us needing help on D. As soon as Nylander was able to get written trade protection, he got significantly less than Matthews and Marner, clearly both sides acknowledged there may come a time where it’s best for both parties to move on.

If Nylanders concern was a sign and trade then all he could get was a verbal promise then.

 

[Pengu]

Most important thing:
87 pts in 70 games
47 pts in 50 games

Guess who got which numbers....

 

[Martin Skoula]

If Nylanders concern was a sign and trade then all he could get was a verbal promise then.

Yes but people seem to think it was an iron clad blood oath for the rest of Dubas mortal life when it was a promise to not be sign-and-traded and vague platitudes about not being in the business of trading young players for the rest of the deal.

But no apparently if Kyle stayed GM for 20 years like Lou or Trotz, we’d be bound by verbal NMC honor to play a 50 year old Nylander.

 

[ACC1224]

Yes but people seem to think it was an iron clad blood oath for the rest of Dubas mortal life when it was a promise to not be sign-and-traded and vague platitudes about not being in the business of trading young players for the rest of the deal.

But no apparently if Kyle stayed GM for 20 years like Lou or Trotz, we’d be bound by verbal NMC honor to play a 50 year old Nylander.

I don't believe that was the case but thankfully we'll never know.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yes but people seem to think it was an iron clad blood oath for the rest of Dubas mortal life when it was a promise to not be sign-and-traded and vague platitudes about not being in the business of trading young players for the rest of the deal.

But no apparently if Kyle stayed GM for 20 years like Lou or Trotz, we’d be bound by verbal NMC honor to play a 50 year old Nylander.

That was something I thought about from time to time - would Dubas keep his promise which sounded like just something dumb he said at the spur of the moment? Or if the time came when trading Nylander was the best thing to do for the team, would he break his idiotic promise?

We'll never know. And of course now that Dubas is gone, I don't really care any more.

 

[Legion34]

Did you bother to look this up?

Marner: 82 games, 26 goals, 94 points, new contract $10.9 x 6
Rantanen: 74 games, 31 goals, 87 points, new contract $9.25 x 6

Rantanen projected to 82 games: 34 goals, 96 points
Rantanen signed after waiting out Mitch's new contract.
Yet, Mitch's contract is 18% higher.

Marner also demanded the bonuses he would have got… except lou said he didn’t do them and turned around and gave them to Matthews.

I think it worked out to like 250k a year?

Marner was easily about 1 Million/yearoverpaid compared to his comparables

Matthews took 14% x5 on the projected cap… so that makes sense.

Willy took 8.75% x 6 which was right in the middle of his comparables.

Matthews got what he deserved.
Nylander got what he deserved but should not have been allowed to take it this far
Marner was about 1 million ish overpaid

 

[socko]

Dubas won the player agents poll of most likeable GM to work with. I hope he took that with him and hung it up in his new office in Pitt.

 

[justashadowof]

No one should forget that this is all business. Neither party of a potential future contract owes the other anything. It's not like William Nylander wouldn't have a professional hockey career without the Toronto Maple Leafs. It's not like the Toronto Maple Leafs couldn't have had a hockey team without William Nylander. If it works for them both, that's great. If it doesn't then the separate parties should be motivated to sever early rather than later.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Marner also demanded the bonuses he would have got… except lou said he didn’t do them and turned around and gave them to Matthews.

I think it worked out to like 250k a year?

Marner was easily about 1 Million/yearoverpaid compared to his comparables

Matthews took 14% x5 on the projected cap… so that makes sense.

Willy took 8.75% x 6 which was right in the middle of his comparables.

Matthews got what he deserved.
Nylander got what he deserved but should not have been allowed to take it this far
Marner was about 1 million ish overpaid

Marner was about 2 million ish overpaid, agree with the rest. JMHO.

Edit - maybe only 1.5 overpaid, IIRC I expected him to come in around 9-9.5. Then again, I was assuming 7 years so there is that. Yikes what a puke worthy contract that was, still having a hard time digesting that one even after all these years.

Dubas won the player agents poll of most likeable GM to work with. I hope he took that with him and hung it up in his new office in Pitt.

If he tweets a pic, I just might have to sign up for an account. LOL.

 

[mikeyz]

Ya but the cap is going up
Ya but no state tax
Ya but Canada has Ketchup chips
So many excuses as to why they will most likely have to overpay or trade him

Honestly man. I am getting to the point where I want all 3 of those guys to f*** off and just build around Bertuzzi and Domi with that 30 million in cap space. Maybe pray that McDavid hits free agency in a couple of years.

 

[Boxscore]

Wonder what the difference in take home pay is?

It doesn't matter. Let Matthews and Marner take that up with the NHL/NHLPA and Ontario Province for their hard cap and high taxes. As long as the NHL operates with a hard cap -- and the Leafs and Panthers are limited to the same number -- Leafs players will take home less, period. That's life if you want to make tens of millions playing hockey for the Toronto Maple Leafs.

If Auston Matthews signed a 12.5 mil x 8 year deal tonight it would pay him 100 million before he could sign another lucrative contract at age 33. This is on top of the 65 million he's already made. You seriously expect people to side with greedy af Matthews because of Matt Tkachuk's "take home pay" in Florida? Lmao. 165 million in pay, plus another deal down the line, and this kid is trying to drain the Leafs dry.

"Wah, I wanna be the highest paid ever."

"Wah, I only want a five year deal so I can get more when the cap increases."

"Oh, you expect me to play better in the playoffs? Nah, I'm good."

Trade him.

 

[rojac]

Could he have a full NMC on the first year of the contract?

No, he could not. You can only give a NTC or NMC (modified or not) for "free agent years."

 

[Throw More Waffles]

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Yup Marner was $1.65m better than Rantanen after their first three years. Ranta also busier scoring more goals (80 to 67). Seriously who takes Marner @ 10.893 x 6 over Ranta @ 9.25m x 8 ?

Yep.

Marner had a better rookie season.

Rantanen had a VASTLY superior second season.

Rantanen had a slightly better third season.

Marner makes 1.5 more than him, WAY more front loaded, and WAY more in signing bonuses. All because he was better for 1 of 3 total seasons which occurred three years prior when he was 18 years old.

It makes absolutely no sense and I'm sick of people defending it. I'm SICK of it.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Could he have a full NMC on the first year of the contract?

Yes he can, as he already has M-NTC for 23/24.

 

[Boxscore]

Yep.

Marner had a better rookie season.

Rantanen had a VASTLY superior second season.

Rantanen had a slightly better third season.

Marner makes 1.5 more than him, WAY more front loaded, and WAY more in signing bonuses. All because he was better for 1 of 3 total seasons which occurred three years prior when he was 18 years old.

It makes absolutely no sense and I'm sick of people defending it. I'm SICK of it.

Leafs fans who cherish Marner and Matthews more than the team itself can't seem to remember there's a hard cap in the NHL. Because of the cap, superstar players have two paths they can take:

1. Commit to their teams and reasonably work within a cap structure so their team can be successful.

2. Be a cut-throat negotiator and leverage your team for max dollars and forgo championships and success.

These are the only two paths. Unfortunately for us, our best players have chosen path #2. Only Rielly has willingly settled for a bit less. Nylander (by all accounts) is ready to do the same but only if others on the team, namely Matthews and Marner, do the same as well. And that's understandable considering he settled for less last time only to watch Matthews and Marner take the Leafs to the cleaners. He's not going to be doing it as a lone wolf again.

This is not complicated.

 

[ZEBROA]

There is so much randomness in first or second assists that the whole argument is silly.

Just two examples from the Florida series:

Nylander carries the puck into the zone, draws two players to him, and feeds a wide open Marner for a quick pass to a wide open Matthews for an easy goal. Goal by Matty, first assist by Mitch, second assist by Nylander.

Brodie (?) takes the puck off a Panther and passes it up ice, it tips off Tavares' stick and Nylander picks it up, skates into the zone, and scores. First assist by Tavares who just happened to touch the puck, second assist to Brodie.

In both cases it could easily be argued that the second assist was the more important one. Sometimes the third assist is the critical one.

If u take 100 random second and first assist i still think first assist are more important. U can be on the bench, and still get a assist 15 sek later.

Zone enterings might be made with no assist at all, but without it, there would be no goal. And without a goalscorer, there would never be any assist. But goals might be made without assists.

Would be fun (for someone with no life) to go through all of Marners and Nylanders points and rate them on impact.

 

[Boxscore]

Marner is worth more than 9.5 x 8. Tkachuk got that deal with one 100 point season and zero other PPG+ seasons.

Tkachuk got that contract outscoring Marner's best year in both goals and points. Matthews is also a unicorn who scores, hits, fights, and battles in the trenches, while softer-than-Kleenex Marner plays on the fringe and turns over pucks in the playoffs like he's playing Beer League on a random Wednesday night.

No offense, but if you think Mitch Marner is worth 11 mil in a hard cap world, your thinking is a big part of the reason the Leafs have won just 1 round in 7 years with this core. Marner worth 1.5 mil more than Matt Tkachuk, lmao.

 

[Divine]

So what do you guys think Aho get's - you know, being a UFA next year and all.

I'm being told Nylander is worth 10M+, so 10.5, 11, 12, 13 X 8?

 

[MCR74]

Dubas won the player agents poll of most likeable GM to work with. I hope he took that with him and hung it up in his new office in Pitt.

He must've. Jarry got over $5M for 5 years.