Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[Notsince67]

I hope you're not going to argue that Marner played well against Florida. He played so badly in game 3, possibly the worst game of his entire career and after that one, we were down 3-0 and the series was as good as over. Yes, he did play better in game 4 but that was a textbook case of too little too late and hardly worth bragging about.

I am holding you to what you just said. I even bolded it for you

 

[Americanadian]

Not necessarily. If you omit any NMC or NTC, I would take it all day long and consider the leafs pretty well off.

You’re quite literally paying the same amount for less production than your direct competitors which is a competitive disadvantage when you are held to the same cap. You can look across the entire division and point to plenty of players who are better than Nylander that make 9.5M or less: Stutzle, Thompson, Point, Kucherov, Tkachuk, Tkachuk #2, McAvoy, Hedman and arguably Larkin, Debrincat, Stamkos.

All of these players are within the same division. It’s a competitive disadvantage to pay more or equal for less production.

 

[Notsince67]

You’re quite literally paying the same amount for less production than your direct competitors which is a competitive disadvantage when you are held to the same cap. You can look across the entire division and point to plenty of players who are better than Nylander that make 9.5M or less: Stutzle, Thompson, Point, Kucherov, Tkachuk, Tkachuk #2, McAvoy, Hedman and arguably Larkin, Debrincat, Stamkos.

All of these players are within the same division. It’s a competitive disadvantage to pay more or equal for less production.

You aren't looking at the big picture. Any of these players can rise or drop over the term of their contracts. To think that Tkachuk will play at the same pace throughout his contract is foolish. The advantage is being able to trade your assett when you want which Florida or Tampa can't do. You de-risk the contract in the future and that is worth gold. Wanna make a bid for McDavid in free agency...you have the means to shed cap.

 

[LeafEgo]

You’re quite literally paying the same amount for less production than your direct competitors which is a competitive disadvantage when you are held to the same cap. You can look across the entire division and point to plenty of players who are better than Nylander that make 9.5M or less: Stutzle, Thompson, Point, Kucherov, Tkachuk, Tkachuk #2, McAvoy, Hedman and arguably Larkin, Debrincat, Stamkos.

All of these players are within the same division. It’s a competitive disadvantage to pay more or equal for less production.

To his point though if Willy doesn't get any clause protection the first couple years, that significantly changes the price point - not often factored in here. For one it completely mitigates the risk we lose him for nothing, and gives us some control over managing competitiveness against our near peers. Very valuable.

Not sure how realistic that is though.

 

[Americanadian]

You aren't looking at the big picture. Any of these players can rise or drop over the term of their contracts. To think that Tkachuk will play at the same pace throughout his contract is foolish. The advantage is being able to trade your assett when you want which Florida or Tampa can't do. You de-risk the contract in the future and that is worth gold. Wanna make a bid for McDavid in free agency...you have the means to shed cap.

My apologies - I was focused on the cap hit. I agree that not having a NMC or NTC is good. I still wouldn’t pay Nylander >9M on a deal without trade protection.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I am holding you to what you just said. I even bolded it for you

Take a closer look at what you bolded - I was talking about when we badly needed a goal which does not mean game 4 when the series was as good as over.

 

[Fogelhund]

 

[Gary Nylund]

You aren't looking at the big picture. Any of these players can rise or drop over the term of their contracts. To think that Tkachuk will play at the same pace throughout his contract is foolish. The advantage is being able to trade your assett when you want which Florida or Tampa can't do. You de-risk the contract in the future and that is worth gold. Wanna make a bid for McDavid in free agency...you have the means to shed cap.

Regular season I would agree. Who's going to be the more valuable asset between Marner and Tkachuk in the playoffs though, that's not so clear.

 

[Notsince67]

Regular season I would agree. Who's going to be the more valuable asset between Marner and Tkachuk in the playoffs though, that's not so clear.

Not about Marner. I know you have your obsession but try to stay on topic.

 

[LeafEgo]

You aren't looking at the big picture. Any of these players can rise or drop over the term of their contracts. To think that Tkachuk will play at the same pace throughout his contract is foolish. The advantage is being able to trade your assett when you want which Florida or Tampa can't do. You de-risk the contract in the future and that is worth gold. Wanna make a bid for McDavid in free agency...you have the means to shed cap.

This could be a big sticking point in negotiations. You'd think Nylander would expect protection, but how much of your cap can a team tie up in long term contracts with NMCs?

Nylander always ends up getting squeezed to accommodate the other big contract players.

 

[Notsince67]

This could be a big sticking point in negotiations. You'd think Nylander would expect protection, but how much of your cap can a team tie up in long term contracts with NMCs?

Nylander always ends up getting squeezed to accommodate the other big contract players.

Protection comes if you have a discounted contract. Not when you are paid in full or paid a premium. They are given out a bit too frquently but a GM would be stupid not to put a price on it.

 

[Mess]

Connor McDavid now represented by Auston Matthews' agent​

In what should be an otherwise pretty dry month for hockey news, we have been gifted with a pretty significant piece of news on Thursday morning after the announcement Jeff Jackson, the agent for Connor McDavid, was hired as the Edmonton Oilers' new CEO of Hockey Operations. Why is this significant? Well, because of who has replaced him as McDavid's new agent.

McDavid has opted to remain with Wasserman Hockey and will have two representatives effective immediately; Adam Phillips will manage McDavid's endorsement deals, while his primary agent will be Judd Muldaver. If that name sounds familiar to Leaf fans, it's because it should. Muldaver is also the agent to Leafs superstar Auston Matthews.

 

[LeafEgo]

Protection comes if you have a discounted contract. Not when you are paid in full or paid a premium. They are given out a bit too frquently but a GM would be stupid not to put a price on it.

Any idea on what the value of a full NMC compared to none might be?

 

[Notsince67]

Any idea on what the value of a full NMC compared to none might be?

I doubt it is a fungible commodity that is worth the same everywhere. Florida and Vegas players may value it more. If it were me, it would begin at .5MM for a MNTC. Higher for NTC and NMC. I have zero references to support this number so it is purely my opinion.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Not about Marner. I know you have your obsession but try to stay on topic.

If anyone's obsessed with Marner, it's not me - to me, he's just one of many players on our team, nothing more, nothing less.

You were talking about Tkachuk in a thread about Nylander, not sure if you if you should be telling people to stay on subject.

 

[LeafEgo]

I doubt it is a fungible commodity that is worth the same everywhere. Florida and Vegas players may value it more. If it were me, it would begin at .5MM for a MNTC. Higher for NTC and NMC. I have zero references to support this number so it is purely my opinion.

Potentially opens up quite a range for Willy.

Wonder if dekes has run numbers before on NMC price impacts . .

 

[Fogelhund]

I highly doubt that a NMC/NTC has any impact on the dollar value of elite player's contracts. It very well may, if a middling to lower end player asks for one.

 

[TMLAM34]

I highly doubt that a NMC/NTC has any impact on the dollar value of elite player's contracts. It very well may, if a middling to lower end player asks for one.

Agreed and in todays game, a NTC or NMC is pretty standard when it comes to signing superstars.

Kampf and Jarnkrok even got MNTC’s…

 

[LeafEgo]

I highly doubt that a NMC/NTC has any impact on the dollar value of elite player's contracts. It very well may, if a middling to lower end player asks for one.

If a variable is advantageous to one party and not the other how could it not get logrolled into the price point? How would it get decided?

Willy may not entertain offers without one, but it still affects what the Leafs will offer.

 

[Notsince67]

Agreed and in todays game, a NTC or NMC is pretty standard when it comes to signing superstars.

Kampf and Jarnkrok even got MNTC’s…

95 players in the league 6mm and up have a clause with the balance of 242 in total also having one.
Fox, Makar, Skinner, Barzal, McAvoy, Kaprizov, Aho and Meier are some players without clauses. There is nothing that is standard.

 

[Notsince67]

If anyone's obsessed with Marner, it's not me - to me, he's just one of many players on our team, nothing more, nothing less.

You were talking about Tkachuk in a thread about Nylander, not sure if you if you should be telling people to stay on subject.

Funny I would mention Tkachuk with Nylander in response to a comment about Tkachuk and Nylander and fully staying on topic in discussing competitive advantage issues related to a contract.
Stay on topic.

 

[Fogelhund]

If a variable is advantageous to one party and not the other how could it not get logrolled into the price point? How would it get decided?

Willy may not entertain offers without one, but it still affects what the Leafs will offer.

Really? Please show one piece of evidence supporting this.

 

[Notsince67]

Really? Please show one piece of evidence supporting this.

Its pretty simple. Not everyone has one and there is no criterea in the players agreement that specify a rule based approach in the application. The item IS NEGOTIATED so it must be monitized in some way, albeit unclearly.

 

[Jozay]

95 players in the league 6mm and up have a clause with the balance of 242 in total also having one.
Fox, Makar, Skinner, Barzal, McAvoy, Kaprizov, Aho and Meier are some players without clauses. There is nothing that is standard.

A lot of these guy were not eligible to get NTC/NMC's, almost all of them have them kick in at some point when they are eligible.

Makar didnt get anything though, which is surprising.

 

[Fogelhund]

Its pretty simple. Not everyone has one and there is no criterea in the players agreement that specify a rule based approach in the application. The item IS NEGOTIATED so it must be monitized in some way, albeit unclearly.

No, not in the least. There is no evidence, or heresay to suggest this is remotely true.