Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[Nineteen67]

I'd much rather be Nylander's wingman at a bar.

In my younger days I could pass for Alan Jackson.

 

[Notsince67]

What you said is just a theory, with no basis in reality, nor any evidence supporting it. You can't find a single piece supporting this theory anywhere. It's actually impossible to prove any accuracy, or inaccuracy, as it's just an unsubstantiated theory.

That's how evidence works, you have to prove something to be true, and in this case you can't. It's probable that in some cases, there is a reduction in salary, to have a NTC/NMC. In other cases, and probably with more elite players, there is no reduction in salary. It's probably a case by case situation. As far as Makar, if they didn't request one, they aren't going to get one... probably didn't think he'd need one. But then, that's just a theory too, and Makar didn't comment on it, so we will never know what the reality is.

Hand waving to logic and demanding proof of said logic is really a burden of proof fallicy. If you deny the logic, you can't shift the burden to someone else to provide the proof. The logic is the proof. Its not like teams are giving NMCs like free calanders to whoever wants one.

 

[Arzak]

Protection comes if you have a discounted contract. Not when you are paid in full or paid a premium. They are given out a bit too frquently but a GM would be stupid not to put a price on it.

IMO that's how we ended up with this mess.

JT was the second highest-paid player when inking the contract. The fact that Marner is paid 11 while having 2-year NMC lining up with Mathews's contract is another madness.

I can't even imagine their contract with no front loading, 8 year term and without NMC. We had to give them all the perks because CBA won't allow us to pay them what their worth.

 

[CDN24]

Funny talking about the least overpaid of the four as a 'cap dump', but I know what you mean.

Chalk it up to one more example of Dubas' incompetence.

I was not referring to Nylander as a cap dump - though I suppose moving him kind of would be to clear up space going forward. What I meant, but did not write very clearly, was to move him at this point of the off season you would have to take someone body's cap dump back as no teams interested in acquiring him would have the cap space at this point in the off-season.

Maybe Dubas will trade for him

 

[Gary Nylund]

In this particular situation, my claim is that the advantage to Nylander and the disadvantage to the Leafs is too significant not to be material.

Would you give Nylander an extra 500k per year if he removed all protection clauses from his contract?

Interesting question. Not just re. Nylander, but the entire subject in general.

These clauses are definitely worth something. Take Marner for example, if the GM wanted to trade him it would be worth something for sure to get rid of the clauses that prevent him from being moved without his approval. Then again, tacking more dollars on to the already gargantuan cap hit would make him worth less in a trade so there is that as well. But in general, I think it's obvious these clauses have have value for both sides, just how many dollars they're worth, that's really hard to say and probably varies from player to player and from team to team.

I wonder if these clauses have ever been negotiated in terms of OK if we give you these clauses, the dollars will be this much less. My guess it no, teams just give them out as perks and lord knows the Leafs are the NHL leaders in that category. I could be wrong though, I really have no idea.

 

[Boxscore]

Leon draisaitl is a better play maker than matthews is a goal scorer

And as a goal scorer he is also cream of the crop while matthews is barely middle of the pack for a top center.

Draisaitl has a chance to be an all time great if we are not being biased. His last 5 seasons are amongst the top 10-20 greatest prime periods ever.

If he dominates for another 5 years he will be a top 30 player all time

This is all true.

 

[Fogelhund]

Hand waving to logic and demanding proof of said logic is really a burden of proof fallicy. If you deny the logic, you can't shift the burden to someone else to provide the proof. The logic is the proof. Its not like teams are giving NMCs like free calanders to whoever wants one.

Logic without logic. Proof without proof.

It's a great day, when people repeat something in their heads so many times, they convince themselves it's real.

Oh well, it should be a beautiful long weekend, enjoy.

 

[Menzinger]

Leon draisaitl is a better play maker than matthews is a goal scorer

And as a goal scorer he is also cream of the crop while matthews is barely middle of the pack for a top center.

Draisaitl has a chance to be an all time great if we are not being biased. His last 5 seasons are amongst the top 10-20 greatest prime periods ever.

If he dominates for another 5 years he will be a top 30 player all time

Matthews is the best even strength goal scorer since he entered the league......

 

[notbias]

Matthews is the best even strength goal scorer since he entered the league......

not just even strength, the best goal scorer in general.

 

[Notsince67]

not just even strength, the best goal scorer in general.

perhaps the best goal scorer that ever lived

 

[notbias]

perhaps the best goal scorer that ever lived

No, that's Ovi. If Matthews recovers from whatever injury he had last year and can stay healthy, I think he will go down as one of the best.

 

[81Leafs50]

The thing with the Leafs is one player on the team got way too much money. Matthews is the best player on the Leafs so he's obviously going to have to biggest and best contract. Nylander is worth up to $9.5M on an 8 year deal, thats not really debatable.

Mitch Marner was overpaid at 11M, and will require a raise on his already over payment. Witch will be tough to negotiate. He has not scored 100pts in a season yet, he has no hardware to his name unlike Matthews. He has not performed in the playoffs to the same level as Nylander.

This all comes down to how can the Leafs reset their cap structure? Leafs are left with one option. Trade Mitch.

Auston at ~$13M
Nylander at $9.5M
Tavares at 11M currently but will negotiate a much lower number on his next deal. Probably 5-6M on a retirement deal for 2-3 yrs.

So that cap situation is reset and the numbers look like this.

Auston 13-13.5
Nylander ~$9.5M
Reilly 7.5M
Bertuzzi $5
Brodie $5M
Tavares ~5-6M

Opening up 11M in cap space allows everyone in the organization to breath. the players dont get squeezed and the management dont have to worry about whether they call someone up in case of injuries or poor performance.

 

[LeafEgo]

Interesting question. Not just re. Nylander, but the entire subject in general.

These clauses are definitely worth something. Take Marner for example, if the GM wanted to trade him it would be worth something for sure to get rid of the clauses that prevent him from being moved without his approval. Then again, tacking more dollars on to the already gargantuan cap hit would make him worth less in a trade so there is that as well. But in general, I think it's obvious these clauses have have value for both sides, just how many dollars they're worth, that's really hard to say and probably varies from player to player and from team to team.

I wonder if these clauses have ever been negotiated in terms of OK if we give you these clauses, the dollars will be this much less. My guess it no, teams just give them out as perks and lord knows the Leafs are the NHL leaders in that category. I could be wrong though, I really have no idea.

Agreed. My guess is these terms are worked out in the framework of the deal, and by the time they get to price points it's typically already baked in.

In the Nylander case I'm not sure it's going that smoothly. If they gave him and Matty 8 years NMC, and they still haven't made progress by the time they negotiate with Marner, do they give Marner a full NMC as well? 35M of cap you have no control over and no success? They may want to make the decision now which player loses privileges so they have some flexibility after how things go the next couple years, and they'd probably prefer to reserve those privileges for Marner.

You're probably right that trade value would drop, but it's worth noting that the receiving team would also be getting a contract with no protection so that would offset the impact.

 

[Notsince67]

No, that's Ovi. If Matthews recovers from whatever injury he had last year and can stay healthy, I think he will go down as one of the best.

After 481 total games
Matthews 299, OV 304.
Not a crap load of a difference

The thing with the Leafs is one player on the team got way too much money. Matthews is the best player on the Leafs so he's obviously going to have to biggest and best contract. Nylander is worth up to $9.5M on an 8 year deal, thats not really debatable.

Mitch Marner was overpaid at 11M, and will require a raise on his already over payment. Witch will be tough to negotiate. He has not scored 100pts in a season yet, he has no hardware to his name unlike Matthews. He has not performed in the playoffs to the same level as Nylander.

This all comes down to how can the Leafs reset their cap structure? Leafs are left with one option. Trade Mitch.

Auston at ~$13M
Nylander at $9.5M
Tavares at 11M currently but will negotiate a much lower number on his next deal. Probably 5-6M on a retirement deal for 2-3 yrs.

So that cap situation is reset and the numbers look like this.

Auston 13-13.5
Nylander ~$9.5M
Reilly 7.5M
Bertuzzi $5
Brodie $5M
Tavares ~5-6M

Opening up 11M in cap space allows everyone in the organization to breath. the players dont get squeezed and the management dont have to worry about whether they call someone up in case of injuries or poor performance.

Did you miss the memo on the NMC clause?

 

[hamzarocks]

Matthews is the best even strength goal scorer since he entered the league......

So what?

Draisaitl is still comfortably a superior offensive player to him

He has 306 assists in 369 games (2018-2019 to 2022-2023)

200 EVS assists or 65.3% at EVS
105 PP assists or 34.3%
1 SH asssit or 0.4%

Matthews has only 185 assists in 337 games

133 EVS assists or 71.9%
52 PP assists or 28.1%

Matthews ranks 23rd in the NHL for EVS assists while Draisaitl is 2nd in the NHL in this period

Matthews is 1st in EVS goals in this period with 162 goals while Draisailt is 7th with 122 goals

Draisaitl at EVS is still the superior offensive player being able to be an incredible dual threat vs matthews who is not a strong play maker in comparison

PP wise Draisaitl and Mcdavid have had the oilers PP winning them games on its own. No comparison on the PP

 

[notbias]

After 481 total games
Matthews 299, OV 304.
Not a crap load of a difference

I don't think Matthews (or pretty much anyone), will match Ovi's production into the later years of his career, but I didn't know it was that close, super impressive (although I am sure Matthews is older by game 4810

 

[Gary Nylund]

So what?

Draisaitl is still comfortably a superior offensive player to him

He has 306 assists in 369 games (2018-2019 to 2022-2023)

200 EVS assists or 65.3% at EVS
105 PP assists or 34.3%
1 SH asssit or 0.4%

Matthews has only 185 assists in 337 games

133 EVS assists or 71.9%
52 PP assists or 28.1%

Matthews ranks 23rd in the NHL for EVS assists while Draisaitl is 2nd in the NHL in this period

Matthews is 1st in EVS goals in this period with 162 goals while Draisailt is 7th with 122 goals

Draisaitl at EVS is still the superior offensive player being able to be an incredible dual threat vs matthews who is not a strong play maker in comparison

PP wise Draisaitl and Mcdavid have had the oilers PP winning them games on its own. No comparison on the PP

The lack of respect for Draisailt on this board amazes me sometimes. I've seen people say Marner is way better because Draisaitl doesn't play defence, yeah oooooooooookay.

On the subject of greatest goal scorers of all-time, the fact that Matthews has so much trouble staying healthy is probably going to take him down a notch or two in this category when all is said and done. And Ovechkin is great and everything but if you ask me, I'd have trouble saying anyone is or was better at scoring goals than the great Gretzky.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I was not referring to Nylander as a cap dump - though I suppose moving him kind of would be to clear up space going forward. What I meant, but did not write very clearly, was to move him at this point of the off season you would have to take someone body's cap dump back as no teams interested in acquiring him would have the cap space at this point in the off-season.

Maybe Dubas will trade for him

Quite right - I misread.

Although as you say, it could work both ways.

 

[myleafs]

No, that's Ovi. If Matthews recovers from whatever injury he had last year and can stay healthy, I think he will go down as one of the best.

mike bossy says hello

 

[myleafs]

not just even strength, the best goal scorer in general.

And yet over the last 5 yrs Leon has more total goals and pts than Matthews....not pacing but actual goals and points.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

The lack of respect for Draisailt on this board amazes me sometimes. I've seen people say Marner is way better because Draisaitl doesn't play defence, yeah oooooooooookay.

On the subject of greatest goal scorers of all-time, the fact that Matthews has so much trouble staying healthy is probably going to take him down a notch or two in this category when all is said and done. And Ovechkin is great and everything but if you ask me, I'd have trouble saying anyone is or was better at scoring goals than the great Gretzky.

It's their way of coping with how badly our biggest stars are ripping us off compared to Edmonton's.

 

[notbias]

And yet over the last 5 yrs Leon has more total goals and pts than Matthews....not pacing but actual goals and points.

Why 5 years?

4 years he doesn't
3 years he doesn't
2 years he does
1 year he does

That injury last year really leveled the playing field.

It's their way of coping with how badly our biggest stars are ripping us off compared to Edmonton's.

Draisaitl gets brought up as 2nd best in the world, and he is not, I think that is why people bring him down.

 

[Srsly]

Arena is on the west end of Raleigh it's about 20 from downtown Raleigh and 30 from Durham. It's on their state fairgrounds.

It's annoying to get to but you're not going to get shot

My parents live like three hours outside of Toronto and with recent work from home changes they’ve seen a lot of folks from Toronto wanting to move out to the country. My Aunt is in the madoc area and even her outdated house sold for like 800k. What even is that.

 

[myleafs]

Why 5 years?

4 years he doesn't
3 years he doesn't
2 years he does
1 year he does

That injury last year really leveled the playing field.



Draisaitl gets brought up as 2nd best in the world, and he is not, I think that is why people bring him down.

You mean like those who say Matthews is the 2nd best player in the league (he is not) and should be paid as the highest paid player?

Leon has 14 goals fewer than matthews in last 7 years but many many more assists and overall pts and way better playoff stats all for 3+milly per yr cheaper than our guy.

 

[ULF_55]

Why 5 years?

4 years he doesn't
3 years he doesn't
2 years he does
1 year he does

That injury last year really leveled the playing field.



Draisaitl gets brought up as 2nd best in the world, and he is not, I think that is why people bring him down.

Draisaitl also plays on the PK, not a lot, but a little less than a minute a game, Matthews 4 seconds a game.

marner PK's

McDavid >> Matthews > Draisaitl > marner > Nylander

Some of that is opportunity. If coach doesn't trust you to PK, you don't PK, if coach gives player A 20 minutes a game but player B 18 minutes a game ...