Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[keonsbitterness]

Semantics and you know it. He WAS not under contract until December 1st. Unless he is contracted to play up to November 31st 2024, my math says it isn't 6 years. Really no need to be obtuse about it

I wait for November 31st every year but it never comes.

2 wrongs dont make a right

Three lefts do.

 

[IPS]

If only lipping the cup was a birdie. If only rimmed out was a basket. If only hitting the uprights was a field goal. Who cares, you missed. Posts are failure.

I'm sure all those posts tell it all - Matthews should have had like 10 goals against Montreal!

But he didn't - and he actually sucked badly that series. Reality sucks sometimes.

 

[tuckerintensity]

Then why do you want to give Nylander 9+ AAV?

*whispers* We'd all love to pay him 8, but his market value is 9.6.

 

[IPS]

*whispers* We'd all love to pay him 8, but his market value is 9.6.

What was Gaudreau's market value last offseason?

 

[tuckerintensity]

What was Gaudreau's market value last offseason?

I don't know because there weren't seven million needlessly angry Leaf fans complaining that he wouldn't sign for less than he's worth.

 

[Hellcat]

When Dekes says that he was only getting $42m over 7 years I thought I would point out that he did get 45M but his cap hit is less because he got over $10M in the first year. I didn't say his cap hit was 7.5M...he just got $7.5M in actual cash per the contract and the 1st year overpay.


Where did the $45M contract come from? Did it just disappear? You keep forgetting he was made whole in his first year and that 3M is not being counted by you for some reason. They never said he signed a pro-rated $45M deal did they?

This is what it shows for the first Year:

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Nylander, William[/TD]
[TD]Standard[/TD]
[TD]$10,277,778[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

 

[Hellcat]

What was Gaudreau's market value last offseason?

Between $68.25 million x 7 (what he signed in CLB) to $84 million x 8 (what Calgary offered).

 

[Throw More Waffles]

The cap hit was 6.96m. That was what they negotiated to and agreed on.
However, due to how cap hits/salaries accumulate throughout the year in the NHL, to actually give the player the agreed upon cap hit and salary mid-season, you have to pretend like there is this other theoretical money that never actually existed and the player never actually gets (to create a one-year theoretical cap hit that never actually counts against the team), and construct the contract in a certain way that that difference is instantly eliminated. This is why so much of Nylander's compensation in the 1st year is normal salary. So that 3.23m could be instantly eliminated to get to the cap hit they agreed on.

His cap hit was 7.5x6 and 6.9x5.6

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

It’s amazing how so many don't understand the bolded. It’s really baffling to me.

Cap percentage gets bandied about as if it changes how much money these guys are making. 10, 11, 12 percent of the cap it doesn’t matter. $10 million a year is $10 million a year in this economy.

 

[kb]

Cap percentage gets bandied about as if it changes how much money these guys are making. 10, 11, 12 percent of the cap it doesn’t matter. $10 million a year is $10 million a year in this economy.

$10 million on a $20 million cap is different than on a $100 million cap. One is 50%, one is 10%.

Cap percentage is the ONLY way to compare players over different years.

What the heck does "in this economy" even mean? The cap sets it's own economy. Players negotiate off the available cap. The cap doesn't care how shitty the economy is.

 

[keonsbitterness]

$10 million on a $20 million cap is different than on a $100 million cap. One is 50%, one is 10%.

Cap percentage is the ONLY way to compare players over different years.

What the heck does "in this economy" even mean? The cap sets it's own economy. Players negotiate off the available cap. The cap doesn't care how shitty the economy is.

I'm paying too much for muffins.

 

[Dekes For Days]

When Dekes says that he was only getting $42m over 7 years I thought I would point out that he did get 45M but his cap hit is less because he got over $10M in the first year. I didn't say his cap hit was 7.5M...he just got $7.5M in actual cash per the contract and the 1st year overpay.
Where did the $45M contract come from? Did it just disappear?
You keep forgetting he was made whole in his first year and that 3M is not being counted by you for some reason. They never said he signed a pro-rated $45M deal did they?
This is what it shows for the first Year:

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Nylander, William[/TD]
[TD]Standard[/TD]
[TD]$10,277,778[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

He will not get 45m. He will get 41.77m. The contract was stated as 45m so that when the 3.23m was taken off for signing mid-season, he would have the 6.96m contract that they negotiated and agreed on. That is why Nylander's compensation in the first year was set up as primarily salary. So that a portion of it would be immediately deleted.

When people say that he was "made whole", it means that they paid him the contract they agreed upon (6.96m x 6) instead of the ridiculous idea of trying to charge him millions for the negotiation stretching mid-season.

When you look at the cap page for 2018-2019: Toronto Maple Leafs Daily Cap Tracker - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
It shows what he actually made. 6.96m. The difference between the "cap hit" and "accumulated hit" is the portion of that 45m that was never meant to be earned. The only purpose of it was to be removed to create the desired cap hit.

His cap hit was 7.5x6 and 6.9x5.6

His cap hit was 6.96m for all 6 seasons he was signed through.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

He will not get 45m. He will get 41.77m. The contract was stated as 45m so that when the 3.23m was taken off for signing mid-season, he would have the 6.96m contract that they negotiated and agreed on. That is why Nylander's compensation in the first year was set up as primarily salary. So that a portion of it would be immediately deleted.

When people say that he was "made whole", it means that they paid him the contract they agreed upon (6.96m x 6) instead of the ridiculous idea of trying to charge him millions for the negotiation stretching mid-season.

When you look at the cap page for 2018-2019: Toronto Maple Leafs Daily Cap Tracker - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
It shows what he actually made. 6.96m. The difference between the "cap hit" and "accumulated hit" is the portion of that 45m that was never meant to be earned. The only purpose of it was to be removed to create the desired cap hit.

His cap hit was 6.96m for all 6 seasons he was signed through.

Even cap friendly lists his contract as 6 years 45 million (7.5 aav).

But being that he only played for 5.6 seasons, his aav drops to 6.9

So it’s precisely like we’re all saying.

Nylander signed for 7.5x6 (as per cap friendly) and 6.9x5.6

It’s quite simple actually.

 

[keonsbitterness]

This forum desperately needs about 20 more posts explaining Nylander's 18-19 contract.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Duhatschek mailbag: DeBrincat's impact, Nylander's future, Devils goaltending and more

Plus: Who benefits the most from the salary cap going up? What's John Gibson's value? How long will Pierre Dorion remain Senators GM?

theathletic.com

What is the impact of Ottawa’s relatively weak return for Alex DeBrincat on the market for players such as William Nylander and Travis Konecny? — Matthew D.

As a Leafs fan, I’m conflicted about the DeBrincat trade + contract. The contract certainly gives the Leafs leverage in the Nylander negotiations, however the return for DeBrincat worries me for what they could get in a Nylander trade. Do you see any correlation between the two, and how would you assess the Nylander situation now that the DeBrincat situation has been settled? — Kurtis H.

Because the market is so fluid these days thanks to the aforementioned flat cap, teams and agents invariably seize on any new contract comparables to try and assess what represents a fair valuation under today’s challenging circumstances.

If Nylander were more of a go-with-the-flow sort of personality, then the answer might be yes: that DeBrincat’s deal roughly sets a term and a dollar figure that might apply to Nylander as well. But Nylander’s history is anything but go-with-the-flow. He’s been determined in the past to go a lot further than most players to get what he thinks is contractually a fair deal.

Complicating matters is that internally, the Leafs understand the goal in 2023-24 is to succeed in the playoffs, and that Nylander has been one of their better playoff performers in all those previous underwhelming postseasons. That creates a need or an urgency to get something done with him. It may well be that they’ll need to take a calculated risk; let him play out the year at his current compensation and then circle back after the season to see where things stand.

Konecny’s situation is a little different — he still has two years to go on his contract at $5.5 million, and two years from now, the cap goes up. In some ways, his contract expires at the perfect time. It would be fascinating to see those two traded for each other. Konecny is someone that new Leafs GM Brad Treliving would likely want to add to his team because he is a driven sort of a guy, and Nylander, while of little current value to the Flyers in this early stage of their rebuild, would be a massively attractive asset at the trade deadline as a playoff rental. It would require a little creativity to get the deal done, but as we like to say here at The Athletic, who says no?

 

[tokyoite]

san jose is the frontrunner.
willie for erik karlsson.
sharks retain half of karlsson's salary.

 

[Leafs87]

Perfect example of why 8 year deals for this calibre of player is a must. Losing him at 29 is okay given his 33+ years will suck. Losing him at 27 isn’t great.

 

[Peace Frog]

Perhaps it wouldn’t be all bad if BT and Willy can’t come to an agreement on a contract extension. Keeping Willy if there isn’t a good enough offer in trade, isn’t the worst idea.

I’m starting to think we should keep him instead of settling for “the best offer”, if it isn’t a great offer. We’re better with him in the lineup in that case, and icing the best possible team is what’s most important. Go for another Cup run and see what happens.

We will still have some time after the season, to try to get him signed. If it still can’t be worked out, then we’ll have that cap space to sign other players.

There’s a lot of good players that might hit the UFA market next summer, and hopefully we’ll grab one or two of them. If Bertuzzi and/or Domi work out this season, there will be money to try to re-sign them too.

 

[Bomber0104]

Perhaps it wouldn’t be all bad if BT and Willy can’t come to an agreement on a contract extension. Keeping Willy if there isn’t a good enough offer in trade, isn’t the worst idea.

I’m starting to think we should keep him instead of settling for “the best offer”, if it isn’t a great offer. We’re better with him in the lineup in that case, and icing the best possible team is what’s most important. Go for another Cup run and see what happens.

We will still have some time after the season, to try to get him signed. If it still can’t be worked out, then we’ll have that cap space to sign other players.

There’s a lot of good players that might hit the UFA market next summer, and hopefully we’ll grab one or two of them. If Bertuzzi and/or Domi work out this season, there will be money to try to re-sign them too.

The roster didn't amount to much with Willy making south of $7 million...

You want to make it $2-3 million worse..

That's the difference between having a reliable bottom-six / top-4 defenceman occupying a roster spot or having to roll the dice on a dumpster dive UFA making league minimum.

Why not just trade him for some assets and redistribute some cap-space to positions that actually need it : defence + goaltending?

Sorry, but people need to accept that we're not getting all three of these guys back at market-value UFA contracts.

 

[Maplebeasts]

The roster didn't amount to much with Willy making south of $7 million...

You want to make it $2-3 million worse..

That's the difference between having a reliable bottom-six / top-4 defenceman or having to roll the dice on a dumpster dive UFA.

Why not just trade him for some assets and redistribute some cap-space to positions that actually need it : defence + goaltending

This team has lost in the playoffs because of a lack of scoring not defense. If you trade him you are doing it in hopes of replacing his transition play and offense somehow.

 

[Bomber0104]

This team has lost in the playoffs because of a lack of scoring not defense. If you trade him you are doing it in hopes of replacing his transition play and offense somehow.

Willy plays on the 2nd PP unit.

There's not even room for him there, but yeah let's pay him $10 million.

Ridiculous.

Awful defensively, avoids contact, won't make a sacrifice to break or maintain a play.

Please.

Boston traded a player like that for two 1st's and a 2nd, and then won the Cup.

It wasn't a knock on the player. Just wasn't a fit.

Find a home for Willy. I think he's mega-talented and teams will and should value him appropriately.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Willy plays on the 2nd PP unit.

There's not even room for him there, but yeah let's pay him $10 million.

Ridiculous.

Awful defensively, avoids contact, won't make a sacrifice to break or maintain a play.

Please.

Boston traded a player like that for two 1st's and a 2nd, and then won the Cup.

It wasn't a knock on the player. Just wasn't a fit.

Find a home for Willy. I think he's mega-talented and teams will and should value him appropriately.

There's not even room for him on our second powerplay? What does that even mean? He is the most dangerous player on any second unit we could put out by far. The Seguin trade was far from the reason Boston won the cup. He put up a total of one point in their last 11 games of that playoff run and was averaging like 10 minutes a game.

As for Willy, we scored 2 goals every single game against the Panthers, and lost other series against the Habs and Blue Jackets because we couldn't score. Why would trading him for defense or goaltending help exactly?

 

[notDatsyuk]

When Dekes says that he was only getting $42m over 7 years I thought I would point out that he did get 45M but his cap hit is less because he got over $10M in the first year. I didn't say his cap hit was 7.5M...he just got $7.5M in actual cash per the contract and the 1st year overpay.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Fair enough - there were posters saying just that, and I must have got them mixed. Sorry.

 

[Bomber0104]

There's not even room for him on our second powerplay? What does that even mean? He is the most dangerous player on any second unit we could put out by far. The Seguin trade was far from the reason Boston won the cup. He put up a total of one point in their last 11 games of that playoff run and was averaging like 10 minutes a game.

As for Willy, we scored 2 goals every single game against the Panthers, and lost other series against the Habs and Blue Jackets because we couldn't score. Why would trading him for defense or goaltending help exactly?

Willy doesn't play on PP1 on this team, by default my friend, if you've been watching.

And PP1 takes 1:30 of a full 2 minutes if it gets to that point.

The team doesn't have room for him on the top powerplay. Why spend $10M on a player you can't even fit into a top powerplay unit?

If that's not enough of a signal that we're overloaded on forwards I don't know what is.

And I'm talking about the Kessel to Toronto trade.

Two great offensively skilled players, and similar to Boston we can't manage the balance between the deserved cap-hit on the team anymore.

And that's ok.

Sometimes you have to re-balance, I believe we have a new GM that realizes that.

Not a stubborn little wussy boy who thinks he figured the game out by reading some cool Twitter posts and blogs.

Imagine thinking you draft three players and you have to stick with all of them their entire career.

Let go people.

There's a big wide world of opportunity cost out there.

/streamofconsciousness

 

[Gary Nylund]

Willy doesn't play on PP1 on this team, by default my friend, if you've been watching.

And PP1 takes 1:30 of a full 2 minutes if it gets to that point.

The team doesn't have room for him on the top powerplay. Why spend $10M on a player you can't even fit into a top powerplay unit?

If that's not enough of a signal that we're overloaded on forwards I don't know what is.

And I'm talking about the Kessel to Toronto trade.

Two great offensively skilled players, and similar to Boston we can't manage the balance between the deserved cap-hit on the team anymore.

And that's ok.

Sometimes you have to re-balance, I believe we have a new GM that realizes that.

Not a stubborn little wussy boy who thinks he figured the game out by reading some cool Twitter posts and blogs.

Imagine thinking you draft three players and you have to stick with all of them their entire career.

Let go people.

There's a big wide world of opportunity cost out there.

/streamofconsciousness

Of course he "fits". For most of his career until only recently he has been on PP1, that is where he belongs and the fact that our coach is a moron doesn't change a damn thing in this regard.