Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[Gary Nylund]

Matthews was paid for his body of work, not based on the raw totals of one season in which he wasn’t healthy at basically any point. You’re free to call him overpaid if you so wish, but that ‘he’s not worth his contract value because his last season specifically was not top 20’ logic is putrid

Well duh, every player is paid on their body of work. You're ignoring the fact that the more recent a season is, the more weight it carries.

I'm saying Matthews got overpaid not because of "his last season specifically", but because of his body of work but the most relevant part of that body of work is the most recent season, and that season was pretty bad for someone who's supposed to be as good as him.

Matthews is overpaid, not by a lot so not that big a deal. The more relevant comparisons are Marner and Tavares and considering what they got paid, I don't see how Nylander isn't getting 11 unless his play falls off big time.

is willy a free agent???? seems like hes in the exact same position as pasta.

im not sure why u are talking about matthews contract, this is a nylander conversation, theres an argument that matthews despite an off year is a top 3 player in the league. theres also an argument for the money hes making based off over how long ago drai/mcdavid signed their last deals. wait until mcdavid and drai get their next contracts.

Willie will be a free agent in the summer and considering he held out for months before signing 7 years ago, you'd have to be extremely naive to think he's in an rush to sign for anything less than he could get in the summer. Feel free to explain why he can't expect to get at least as much as Tavares did when he signed here, take all the time you need.

I also told you Pasta could have gotten more, you ignored that. I also mentioned Marner, you ignored that as well. Great strategy - ignore everything you have no answer for and you'll always be right.

I do think people are running a bit wild with the 11 mil number as if it's a given.

He's likely going to get somewhere in the 9.75-10.5ish mil range on an 8 year deal.

Ideally it's settled by the team sooner than later. Get the man locked in before the draft so the team can do some better long term cap planning as they head into next summers free agency

Friendly bet? I'll say his next contract number is at least 11, you say it won't be more than 10.5?

You have a chance of winning that bet IMO but in order for that to happen, his play has to drop off in a big way. I don't see that happening and I don't see him settling for 11 either, not when our history suggests that Marner will get at least 12 on his next deal.

I have a ton of respect for you as a poster, maybe you can help me understand why you think Nylander would be content with less than 11 when he's playing way better than Marner? Marner getting 11 is a given, and more than likely he'll get 12+ so what makes you think Nylander will settle for so much less?

Everyone wants to sign Nylander to whatever he wants now, but once he gets the big money he won't be given anymore passes. On 11m+ AAV, it's expected he puts up consistent 100 point seasons every year well into his 30s.

Fans are riding high, ready give Willy everything he wants and more, but if he comes back down to being a 90 point player and has a no-show in the playoffs, he quickly becomes a bigger scapegoat than Marner.

People won't want to hear this, but this is likely Nylander's peak at 28 years old in a contract season.

He'll be held to a higher standard for sure, no doubt about it. I think you're getting a bit carried away with the number though - Nylander and Marner both have never hit 100 points, Matthews has done it once so expecting 100 from him every year makes no sense. Also making no sense is him "coming back down to being a 90 point player" - to this point, he's never hit 90 points.

listen man, unless you have proof i specifically said that about JT i dont see how its relevant at all to our conversation. ive been on the record many times saying i dont feel JT is worth what we signed him for and 5v5 him and willy have been a dissapointment in my eyes. im just stating facts about nylander...you can move the goalposts all you want but it doesnt make what im saying wrong.

You don't see it - yeah we get that, that explains all these clueless posts you've been making.

One more time - what you think players are worth means diddly squat, players get what the market will pay them. JT got 11, Nylander's on the same tier as he was when he signed, maybe higher and the cap is also higher than it was when JT signed.

 

[keonsbitterness]

All I said is put some feelers out.

It’s possible some team out there with some combination of elite D/goaltending/prospects may be very interested in 8.5 years of Nylander.

I imagine general trade talk among GMs is pretty common, and Nylander will feature more if he remains unsigned.

 

[Gary Nylund]

That'll be very hard to do with his NMC that just kicked in this year.

It would be hard, but not impossible. They'd need to pressure him though and IMO our management is too goody goody to even consider doing something so "unseemly". Toronto the good ...

 

[Arzak]

I can see the Leafs walking Nylander to UFA rather than trading him. Trade means tempering our SC expectations openly and I can't see management doing that.

Sign him or lose him for nothing looks two most realistic options.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I can see the Leafs walking Nylander to UFA rather than trading him. Trade means tempering our SC expectations openly and I can't see management doing that.

Sign him or lose him for nothing looks two most realistic options.

I would also be very surprised if they traded him. Again, I really think Nylander doesn't want to sign before Marner and if the Leafs understand that, they can wait for the summer, extend Marner and then swing back to Nylander. Some people seem to think that if we don't sign him by the TDL, we lose him for nothing but that's just not true.

 

[TimeZone]

I can see the Leafs walking Nylander to UFA rather than trading him. Trade means tempering our SC expectations openly and I can't see management doing that.

Sign him or lose him for nothing looks two most realistic options.

If we lose him for nothing our entire management should be scrapped

 

[ToneDog]

I would also be very surprised if they traded him. Again, I really think Nylander doesn't want to sign before Marner and if the Leafs understand that, they can wait for the summer, extend Marner and then swing back to Nylander. Some people seem to think that if we don't sign him by the TDL, we lose him for nothing but that's just not true.

You cannot sign Marner until July 1st at which point Willie will be a UFA and can only be signed for 7 years and it won't be in T.O.. Quite the catch 22 if you want to sign Willie after Mitch.

 

[Sypher04]

Well duh, every player is paid on their body of work. You're ignoring the fact that the more recent a season is, the more weight it carries.

I'm saying Matthews got overpaid not because of "his last season specifically", but because of his body of work but the most relevant part of that body of work is the most recent season, and that season was pretty bad for someone who's supposed to be as good as him.

Matthews is overpaid, not by a lot so not that big a deal. The more relevant comparisons are Marner and Tavares and considering what they got paid, I don't see how Nylander isn't getting 11 unless his play falls off big time.

You’re ignoring the role his health played in the down season.

I’d say it’s obvious the most relevant part of his body of work was Matthews being a top 2 player in the entire league the previous 2 seasons

 

[TheDoldrums]

I would also be very surprised if they traded him. Again, I really think Nylander doesn't want to sign before Marner and if the Leafs understand that, they can wait for the summer, extend Marner and then swing back to Nylander. Some people seem to think that if we don't sign him by the TDL, we lose him for nothing but that's just not true.

The Leafs lose the ability to offer an 8th year to Nylander by the time Marner is eligible for an extension.

I don't think they need to sign him before the TDL but they definitely need to do it before he becomes a UFA in July.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You cannot sign Marner until July 1st at which point Willie will be a UFA and can only be signed for 7 years and it won't be in T.O.. Quite the catch 22 if you want to sign Willie after Mitch.

The Leafs lose the ability to offer an 8th year to Nylander by the time Marner is eligible for an extension.

I don't think they need to sign him before the TDL but they definitely need to do it before he becomes a UFA in July.

I didn't realize we can offer him only 7 years at that point, thanks for pointing that out. That does make things more complicated but not sure if it's that big a deal, Matthews signed for 5 years, Marner signed for 6 so who knows. But if he wants max term than it's a problem for sure, hmm ...

You’re choosing to ignore the role his health played in the down season. His health last year dramatically changes the relevance.

I’d say the most relevant part was Matthews being a top 2 player in the entire league the previous 2 seasons

Each of the last 3 season are relevant and the fact that his health is such a big issue also detracts from his worth. In any case, I'm not complaining as I only think he's overpaid by a little bit. The argument for Nylander getting at least 11 is better supported by the JT and Marner examples, I just threw in Matthews to make the point that I'm not sure how happy Nylander would be if he was the only one of the big 4 who isn't overpaid, especially considering recent history where he has been the best value for the cap hit out of all of them.

 

[kb]

What makes you think he wouldn't?

Nylander is done in Toronto. Leafs cannot afford another huge contract.

You know less about Leafs than you do about your beloved Habs, of whose board is where you should be permanently.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Trade Marner and hold onto Nylander.

The more I think about it, the more I like this idea. I doubt we'll go this route because as I've said before, our organization is too "squeaky clean" to ask Marner to waive his NMC, I just wish that that wasn't the case.

Players ask to be traded all the time. They agree to a contract, then they want out and ask for a trade so what's the big deal about a team doing the same? Tell Marner we want to go in a different direction and ask him to waive FFS. Most people don't want to stay where they're not wanted, I'd bet a ton that the Leafs could get him to agree to waive if they wanted to. They might have to apply a bit of pressure to get it done but I wish they'd just do it.

This team needs a shake up badly and Marner is the obvious one to go for me. Move him and Nylander will sign for not a penny more than 11, probably less. Marner will probably want at least 12 so that's also a factor plus 2 playoff runs with Marner is worth more than 1 playoff run with Nylander.

The counter to that I assume is that Marner kills penalties but still ...

 

[KingsHockey24]

The more I think about it, the more I like this idea. I doubt we'll go this route because as I've said before, our organization is too "squeaky clean" to ask Marner to waive his NMC, I just wish that that wasn't the case.

Players ask to be traded all the time. They agree to a contract, then they want out and ask for a trade so what's the big deal about a team doing the same? Tell Marner we want to go in a different direction and ask him to waive FFS. Most people don't want to stay where they're not wanted, I'd bet a ton that the Leafs could get him to agree to waive if they wanted to. They might have to apply a bit of pressure to get it done but I wish they'd just do it.

This team needs a shake up badly and Marner is the obvious one to go for me. Move him and Nylander will sign for not a penny more than 11, probably less. Marner will probably want at least 12 so that's also a factor plus 2 playoff runs with Marner is worth more than 1 playoff run with Nylander.

The counter to that I assume is that Marner kills penalties but still ...

Like imagine the type of D you can acquire for someone like Marner.

A legit top tier #1 guy.

 

[djdev]

Well duh, every player is paid on their body of work. You're ignoring the fact that the more recent a season is, the more weight it carries.

I'm saying Matthews got overpaid not because of "his last season specifically", but because of his body of work but the most relevant part of that body of work is the most recent season, and that season was pretty bad for someone who's supposed to be as good as him.

Matthews is overpaid, not by a lot so not that big a deal. The more relevant comparisons are Marner and Tavares and considering what they got paid, I don't see how Nylander isn't getting 11 unless his play falls off big time.


Willie will be a free agent in the summer and considering he held out for months before signing 7 years ago, you'd have to be extremely naive to think he's in an rush to sign for anything less than he could get in the summer. Feel free to explain why he can't expect to get at least as much as Tavares did when he signed here, take all the time you need.

I also told you Pasta could have gotten more, you ignored that. I also mentioned Marner, you ignored that as well. Great strategy - ignore everything you have no answer for and you'll always be right.

Friendly bet? I'll say his next contract number is at least 11, you say it won't be more than 10.5?

You have a chance of winning that bet IMO but in order for that to happen, his play has to drop off in a big way. I don't see that happening and I don't see him settling for 11 either, not when our history suggests that Marner will get at least 12 on his next deal.

I have a ton of respect for you as a poster, maybe you can help me understand why you think Nylander would be content with less than 11 when he's playing way better than Marner? Marner getting 11 is a given, and more than likely he'll get 12+ so what makes you think Nylander will settle for so much less?


He'll be held to a higher standard for sure, no doubt about it. I think you're getting a bit carried away with the number though - Nylander and Marner both have never hit 100 points, Matthews has done it once so expecting 100 from him every year makes no sense. Also making no sense is him "coming back down to being a 90 point player" - to this point, he's never hit 90 points.


You don't see it - yeah we get that, that explains all these clueless posts you've been making.

One more time - what you think players are worth means diddly squat, players get what the market will pay them. JT got 11, Nylander's on the same tier as he was when he signed, maybe higher and the cap is also higher than it was when JT signed.

u being condescending doesnt make you right. and you disagreeing with me doesnt make me wrong. dont respond to me again thanks.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Maybe Will Nye gets domi’s money ?

why did Dubas sign slow mo Tavares, and then focus on fast players thereafter ?

 

[Gary Nylund]

u being condescending doesnt make you right. and you disagreeing with me doesnt make me wrong. dont respond to me again thanks.

If you're going to respond to a post, I suggest you first remove all the responses to other people from the post - it makes it much easier to understand.

The list of people disagreeing with you is quite long. Of course that doesn't mean you're wrong, but you've made a lot of posts today that suggest you don't understand the situation very well and considering the tone of your posts, you're in no position to complain about anyone else being condescending. If you invite condescension, it would be impolite to refuse.

If you think I take orders from you, you are mistaken and I'll respond or not respond to you or anyone else as I see fit. Cheers.

 

[Legion34]

Nylander is also elite on PK now.

All I'm saying is Nylander might hit 100 points this season, something Marner - a player we paid $11M as RFA 6 years ago never did.

100 pts 6 years ago was very different.

 

[centipede2233]

The leafs window closes for a cup contender next year only. Once taveras 11 mil comes off the books it opens up again

 

[Arzak]

If you're going to respond to a post, I suggest you first remove all the responses to other people from the post - it makes it much easier to understand.

The list of people disagreeing with you is quite long. Of course that doesn't mean you're wrong, but you've made a lot of posts today that suggest you don't understand the situation very well and considering the tone of your posts, you're in no position to complain about anyone else being condescending. If you invite condescension, it would be impolite to refuse.

If you think I take orders from you, you are mistaken and I'll respond or not respond to you or anyone else as I see fit. Cheers.

I take it the "duh" part hurt his feelings , what's more interesting, nothing else was worth disagreeing with/replying to within your post. You're tone was the proverbial straw!

 

[Leafs87]

Wasn’t there a contract that was supposed to be announced in Sweden?

 

[Evilhomer]

I didn't realize we can offer him only 7 years at that point, thanks for pointing that out. That does make things more complicated but not sure if it's that big a deal, Matthews signed for 5 years, Marner signed for 6 so who knows. But if he wants max term than it's a problem for sure, hmm ...

I'm not sure the 7/8 year distinction is all that important. I'm not sure it makes sense for Nylander to even sign for that long. Maybe he decides that he only wants a 5 year deal so that he can sign another contract when the salary cap is much higher.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Any chance we don’t even have to give Marner a raise on his next deal? I think 11 x 8 seems fair and aligns with conparables. I doubt he would get much more on the open market, there may be a team willing to give him 12 but we can give him the extra year.

 

[Notsince67]

And you sound like Koresh and L. Ron Hubbard

Fantastic. Don't know what brought you here this year but it isn't a mental health forum. It is a hockey forum. Kick off if you think it's appropriate to shit on this team while they're winning.

 

[ITM]

Fact...you are a blow hard and grammar police. Thats a fact. The way I use it is to begin a sentence. How about this? IMO the leafs will not be able to afford Nylander. Feel better?

Sadly, not for myself.

Seeding unnecessary doubt with such confidence was a heavy blow. It needed correction. You obviously agree.

But self-correction with such an insecure and indignant disposition in what should have been an easy lay up…or a dignified detention in temporary HFExile Aka: Two minutes…You go to the box…Feel shame.

The fact you use it to start a sentence…I mean…Might as well say you shout it out at the beginning and end of every meal that begins with soup. And?

I do feel better for you though.

And that’s a…?

 

[Notsince67]

A Nylander trade return will be around what Meier or Fiala got. Basically the equivalent of 2 mid to late 1sts (or a 1st and a similarly valued prospect). He'd be less than a one year rental for the buying team. They're not going to trade a prime roster asset like a top 2 D for him.

Imo not worth it for the Leafs. Just extend him and move on. Worth noting that an extended Nylander (or say Marner for that matter) can be traded at a later date, even 3-4 seasons from now.

The way Willy is playing these days, I would be reluctant to trade him for anything. However people might perceive him, IMO, this Willy would be a killer that helps win the cup.
Like any of our stars, I would need an offer I couldn't refuse like the last #88 that graced the ice.