Not this again...again. The Devils and Hucksterbeek's Financial Status

[DatBoyJPP]

I would like to know how a male got a locker room attendant job for a women's team.

 

[fortheloveof666]

To chime in more realistically and less tongue-in-cheek (but still ignorantly):

To be perfectly honest - and I know this silly little line has been drawn in the media already - but are we to really be surprised that a guy who made his riches in the industry and place that he did basically exhibited outright fiscal irresponsibility to such a degree that this is now happening?

No, he cannot be the sole blame for all things wrong. But, lets face it, if not for this guy we never get into that Kovy debacle. No ****ing WAY Lou would have done that without some type of pressure. Everything about that move reeked of silver-spoon fed rich guy and not Lou who is definitively meat and potatoes no matter how much his suit costs. He did what he could to make that contract feasible, in a most convoluted way, by following an already egregious practice and we got the consequences rammed down our necks.

As fans of hockey, yes, why wouldn't we all want one of the more talented players in the world on our team long-term? But from a business standpoint, from an organization that does not consistently sell out games, where the **** did we think we were going to be able to run a practical, solvent, business when one guy is worth half of what the franchise is on any given day?

No, he isn't worth that on a yearly basis. But in whole, we signed a contract worth (approximately) half the team's actual, estimated value. ONE person in an organization that consists of many other players, employees, etc. And that's assuming that there were no "behind closed doors" cross-overs with regard to the Arena ownership aspect/business (monetarily speaking) to make payroll and such until they couldn't anymore.

The point isn't even Kovy and his contract itself so much as it is an incredibly impractical business move. Yes, it improved the on-ice product, but the contract also far exceeded his shelf-life and subsequent value and was an absolute indictment to how foolishly this team was being run. Kovy was going to sell some merch and help the team win, but he wasn't going to put - on a consistent basis - that many more ***** in the seats.

Another telltale sign of this imminence is those shiny "checks" that JVB wrote prior to and whilst building this arena in which none cashed and none have even begun to flesh out. Instead, the revitalization around the area has largely been left to other entrepreneurs and such and none of which has been funded (to my knowledge) by the team, as they had initially proposed.

There has been delusions of grandeur since the beginning, the only of which was realized was the arena itself and even that has been one bumpy ****ing ride.

No matter what happens, when people will look back, they'll see that this came about because of the way in which our present owner conducts himself and his business. It works when you can quietly **** people in the financial sector, but running an actual business enterprise (let alone two that overlap as they do) is an entirely different endeavor that we are now seeing he was incapable of.

The only think we can thank him for in the long run is the arena and probably that ridiculous, obnoxious lighting rod in the shape of a hockey player they stuck over in the plaza. Everything else took place because of happenstance, which yes he was the root of, but not necessarily the reason for.

I don't know what happens next, I won't speculate other than to say that there is obvious room for better, more practical business and that we can only hope whomever assumes a majority stake in all this has a better wherewithal than that spoiled little jackoff that tanked our club the way banks did our entire way of life.

At some point, like it or not, we are going to need to suffer on the ice to shore up our instability as a complete business. No matter to what degree that will be, it will most likely have to be part of making us a viable franchise that can fulfill the duration of our lease, at the very least.

Sincerely,
The most long-winded poster in HFDevils history.

 

[Officer Rod Farva]

Is this fireworks factory worthy?

 

[Bleedred]

To chime in more realistically and less tongue-in-cheek (but still ignorantly):

To be perfectly honest - and I know this silly little line has been drawn in the media already - but are we to really be surprised that a guy who made his riches in the industry and place that he did basically exhibited outright fiscal irresponsibility to such a degree that this is now happening?

No, he cannot be the sole blame for all things wrong. But, lets face it, if not for this guy we never get into that Kovy debacle. No ****ing WAY Lou would have done that without some type of pressure. Everything about that move reeked of silver-spoon fed rich guy and not Lou who is definitively meat and potatoes no matter how much his suit costs. He did what he could to make that contract feasible, in a most convoluted way, by following an already egregious practice and we got the consequences rammed down our necks.

As fans of hockey, yes, why wouldn't we all want one of the more talented players in the world on our team long-term? But from a business standpoint, from an organization that does not consistently sell out games, where the **** did we think we were going to be able to run a practical, solvent, business when one guy is worth half of what the franchise is on any given day?

No, he isn't worth that on a yearly basis. But in whole, we signed a contract worth (approximately) half the team's actual, estimated value. ONE person in an organization that consists of many other players, employees, etc. And that's assuming that there were no "behind closed doors" cross-overs with regard to the Arena ownership aspect/business (monetarily speaking) to make payroll and such until they couldn't anymore.

The point isn't even Kovy and his contract itself so much as it is an incredibly impractical business move. Yes, it improved the on-ice product, but the contract also far exceeded his shelf-life and subsequent value and was an absolute indictment to how foolishly this team was being run. Kovy was going to sell some merch and help the team win, but he wasn't going to put - on a consistent basis - that many more ***** in the seats.

Another telltale sign of this imminence is those shiny "checks" that JVB wrote prior to and whilst building this arena in which none cashed and none have even begun to flesh out. Instead, the revitalization around the area has largely been left to other entrepreneurs and such and none of which has been funded (to my knowledge) by the team, as they had initially proposed.

There has been delusions of grandeur since the beginning, the only of which was realized was the arena itself and even that has been one bumpy ****ing ride.

No matter what happens, when people will look back, they'll see that this came about because of the way in which our present owner conducts himself and his business. It works when you can quietly **** people in the financial sector, but running an actual business enterprise (let alone two that overlap as they do) is an entirely different endeavor that we are now seeing he was incapable of.

The only think we can thank him for in the long run is the arena and probably that ridiculous, obnoxious lighting rod in the shape of a hockey player they stuck over in the plaza. Everything else took place because of happenstance, which yes he was the root of, but not necessarily the reason for.

I don't know what happens next, I won't speculate other than to say that there is obvious room for better, more practical business and that we can only hope whomever assumes a majority stake in all this has a better wherewithal than that spoiled little jackoff that tanked our club the way banks did our entire way of life.

At some point, like it or not, we are going to need to suffer on the ice to shore up our instability as a complete business. No matter to what degree that will be, it will most likely have to be part of making us a viable franchise that can fulfill the duration of our lease, at the very least.

Sincerely,
The most long-winded poster in HFDevils history.

Yeah I don't think Lou was behind the Kovalchuk contract. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe he was necessarily against signing him. A 15-17 year contract is just not Lou though. He's brought in high profile forwards before via trade. Gilmour, Niewendyk, Mogilny, to name a few. They were all a bit older when brought in though. It's funny cause all 3 had an additional year left on their contracts after the year we acquired them.

Dave Andreychuk was a fairly high profile player when we got him too. He was already in his 30s then. We only got him for a 2nd round and 3rd round pick to Toronto. He was a PPG player when we got him.

 

[glenwo2]

I would like to know how a male got a locker room attendant job for a women's team.

And where does one sign up for that?



*ahem*

Back on-topic, though.... When does anyone think the announcement for the New Owner will happen?

Before the start of the season?

 

[CerebralGenesis]

Still there, right by Hobby's.. But hard to believe they will still be as cheap when the Teacher's Village opens.. It's going to make that area feel a lot safer to walk around at night

I can sorta recall how to get there using a googlemaps and streetview and manually walking, but I might have to post and ask for the address when the season rolls along.

Us out of town kids aren't always great with directions.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

Without starting more of a mess, would the Devils be playing at the Rock right now if JVB hadn't been an owner? It seems to me as a distant fan they would not.

If only for that fact alone, I'm glad JVB was involved. It far outweighs any "pushing" he did to get Kovy here imo.

 

[Cowbell232]

Without starting more of a mess, would the Devils be playing at the Rock right now if JVB hadn't been an owner? It seems to me as a distant fan they would not.

If only for that fact alone, I'm glad JVB was involved. It far outweighs any "pushing" he did to get Kovy here imo.

That, one would have to infer very heavily, is really a result of Chambers involvement.

JVB knew they had to break ties with CAA to be successful, but I think it was ultimately Chambers that moved the team to Newark.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

Chambers was just a pure businessman though right? Not a fan of the game or the Devils necessarily if I recall the discussions about him. He wanted out rather early after the relocation right?

 

[Cowbell232]

Chambers was just a pure businessman though right? Not a fan of the game or the Devils necessarily if I recall the discussions about him. He wanted out rather early after the relocation right?

He's poured un-told millions of dollars into Newark, including building the PAC himself out of pocket IIRC.

I think he fronted JVB the money to the build the arena and expected to start turning a profit/recouping some of his expenses but when it became clear he was an angel investor, he bailed. Leaving JVB in this mess. But that's my pure speculation.

 

[fortheloveof666]

He's poured un-told millions of dollars into Newark, including building the PAC himself out of pocket IIRC.

I think he fronted JVB the money to the build the arena and expected to start turning a profit/recouping some of his expenses but when it became clear he was an angel investor, he bailed. Leaving JVB in this mess. But that's my pure speculation.

I could see that as being a feasible back-story. I stand by the fact that JVB was way in over his head by trying to run a hockey team. He's great at playing the visible, confident, rich guy. But behind closed doors, his shady Wall St. influenced practices were evident just about everywhere you looked. That **** never going to work in this area of business, never. Especially given the fact of our status being lodged between NY and Philly. It was and will never be as lucrative.

But with some pragmatism and practicality, it could easily be a formidable business if decisions were made along the lines of the way Lou makes decisions. When you have a homegrown player in Parise who is a stud and captain, is it practical to go offer a guy (Kovy) a contract that you can't give to the guy you drafted and groomed?

And c'mon, given Lou's loyalty to people, are we to believe he - of all people - didn't look at the notion like "We are completely alienating a much greater asset by doing this..."? No matter how polite anyone speaks of that whole ordeal, it's a prime example of an owner hellbent on something to solve problems on HIS end that just wasn't going to and it's cost us in almost every imaginable way. There was absolutely no pragmatism or business sense to any of it.

Also, if he was playing with other people's money as you implied he might (this is for the quoters that like to over analyze) have been, is this not - on a macro level - just continued Wall St. style recklessness?

For me none of this is about being right, as much as it is believing that we are likely way better off, moving forward, if we can secure an owner that actually knows how to run a business. Not just piss away millions in high risk investments that either flesh out or don't. There's almost no calculation in that, and I stand firm in that being a huge reason why this team has reached insolvency.

 

[Scott04]

Without starting more of a mess, would the Devils be playing at the Rock right now if JVB hadn't been an owner? It seems to me as a distant fan they would not.

If only for that fact alone, I'm glad JVB was involved. It far outweighs any "pushing" he did to get Kovy here imo.

The specifics are a question mark, but the team would definitely have a new arena by now. It was known for years that they were going to have to get out of (then) CAA. There were obviously different plans/proposals/ideas for locations, but how feasible/how heavily pursued they were is a completely different story. I think the team would be in a new building regardless by now. Where? When it would have happened? Well, that's another story that likely would be different were it not JVB at the top. But I think we would have gotten somewhere regardless.

 

[NC107*]

i could see that as being a feasible back-story. I stand by the fact that jvb was way in over his head by trying to run a hockey team. He's great at playing the visible, confident, rich guy. But behind closed doors, his shady wall st. Influenced practices were evident just about everywhere you looked. That **** never going to work in this area of business, never. Especially given the fact of our status being lodged between ny and philly. It was and will never be as lucrative.

But with some pragmatism and practicality, it could easily be a formidable business if decisions were made along the lines of the way lou makes decisions. When you have a homegrown player in parise who is a stud and captain, is it practical to go offer a guy (kovy) a contract that you can't give to the guy you drafted and groomed?

And c'mon, given lou's loyalty to people, are we to believe he - of all people - didn't look at the notion like "we are completely alienating a much greater asset by doing this..."? No matter how polite anyone speaks of that whole ordeal, it's a prime example of an owner hellbent on something to solve problems on his end that just wasn't going to and it's cost us in almost every imaginable way. There was absolutely no pragmatism or business sense to any of it.

Also, if he was playing with other people's money as you implied he might (this is for the quoters that like to over analyze) have been, is this not - on a macro level - just continued wall st. Style recklessness?

For me none of this is about being right, as much as it is believing that we are likely way better off, moving forward, if we can secure an owner that actually knows how to run a business. Not just piss away millions in high risk investments that either flesh out or don't. There's almost no calculation in that, and i stand firm in that being a huge reason why this team has reached insolvency.

+1000

 

[devilsblood]

Without starting more of a mess, would the Devils be playing at the Rock right now if JVB hadn't been an owner? It seems to me as a distant fan they would not.

If only for that fact alone, I'm glad JVB was involved. It far outweighs any "pushing" he did to get Kovy here imo.

That, one would have to infer very heavily, is really a result of Chambers involvement.

JVB knew they had to break ties with CAA to be successful, but I think it was ultimately Chambers that moved the team to Newark.

Chambers may have been the main driver in moving the team to Newark, I still think JVB should get substantial credit for being involved. He was what 50% owner? Guy has to get credit.

The specifics are a question mark, but the team would definitely have a new arena by now. It was known for years that they were going to have to get out of (then) CAA. There were obviously different plans/proposals/ideas for locations, but how feasible/how heavily pursued they were is a completely different story. I think the team would be in a new building regardless by now. Where? When it would have happened? Well, that's another story that likely would be different were it not JVB at the top. But I think we would have gotten somewhere regardless.

I agree they would have been out of the CAA, though I'm not confident they would still be in NJ.

 

[devilsblood]

On the idea of VBK being reckless. Obviously he took a big risk in taking a team that never drew big crowds, was forever in the shadow on the Rangers, and moved them into one a completely broken down city. Couple that initial formula and couple that with the collapse which surely tapped VBK's private funds(though I did not see much evidence of it hurting attendance, nor did it completely stop Newarks renewal) and u have the current situation. I don't think we need to look for some underlying mismanagement issues beyond that.

He took a huge risk, and the collapse undercut him.

 

[Scott04]

I agree they would have been out of the CAA, though I'm not confident they would still be in NJ.

I think they would be. I feel like the team was too well established in the area, much like now, where the league wants them to stay in NJ at just about all costs. Pretty confident a deal would have gotten done somewhere in the state. Obviously there would be enough red tape that it probably would have gotten done slowly, but I'm confident it would have somewhere. At least, if the powers that be were somewhat flexible on location. If they were insistent on what may have been an old, unrealistic pipe dream (say... in Hoboken) then that's another story.

 

[Devils Dominion]

Thankfully we were able to get The Rock built before the economy collapsed, it's a world class arena and a catalyst for revitalization in our state's largest city-which is also our transportation hub.

We saw how the building gets rocking during the playoff run-along with the pregame atmosphere in the surrounding bars and fanfests.

Hopefully Harris or some other billionaire hops on board, clears the debt, and invests in the team and the arena. And soon.

I think it will happen.

 

[fortheloveof666]

On the idea of VBK being reckless. Obviously he took a big risk in taking a team that never drew big crowds, was forever in the shadow on the Rangers, and moved them into one a completely broken down city. Couple that initial formula and couple that with the collapse which surely tapped VBK's private funds(though I did not see much evidence of it hurting attendance, nor did it completely stop Newarks renewal) and u have the current situation. I don't think we need to look for some underlying mismanagement issues beyond that.

He took a huge risk, and the collapse undercut him.

I'm not trying to pick on you, specifically...but we should probably all cut the ******** when it comes to the "revival of Newark" aspect. Realistically speaking, this is a quasi-Downtown revival and Ironbound has certainly benefited some as well.

As for the entire city? Not even ****ing close. It's not like it was meant to turn the city into a diamond, either. My problem with it is largely with how it is portrayed as us being some kind of saviors when all we really did was clean up some space, add jobs (which yes is vital) and ultimately cordon off a few blocks the gangs can't fight over anymore. Sure it's a benefit, but it isn't even remotely close to changing Newark's much bigger problems.

It also isn't nor wasn't some arid wasteland like Camden or, increasingly, Trenton like people want to think. All that "savior" mentality ******** is propagandist rich white ******* talk that shows you the right shiny object over here (arena, new bars, etc) while averting your eyes from 2 blocks away where you can buy a bundle of heroin, possibly a burner and/or get your ass jacked.

And, as I emphasized in my initial post: The only thing we ultimately made good on was the arena and a sliver of property across the way. There's no "park" or that proposal to create a walkway from Penn Station to the mouth of the arena. (Don't quote me on this part) Wasn't there also a proposal for the team/arena to create a retail property close-by as well? Not that any of it would have been anything but window-dressing, but still.

Lets put it this way, the guy that owns Facebook has theoretically done more for the city of Newark as a city than the Devils presence has. They had to fight us just to pay the ****ing rent. I guess JVB didn't realize that professional franchises can't get the same perks as Section 8.

 

[Devils Dominion]

I'm not trying to pick on you, specifically...but we should probably all cut the ******** when it comes to the "revival of Newark" aspect. Realistically speaking, this is a quasi-Downtown revival and Ironbound has certainly benefited some as well.

As for the entire city? Not even ****ing close. It's not like it was meant to turn the city into a diamond, either. My problem with it is largely with how it is portrayed as us being some kind of saviors when all we really did was clean up some space, add jobs (which yes is vital) and ultimately cordon off a few blocks the gangs can't fight over anymore. Sure it's a benefit, but it isn't even remotely close to changing Newark's much bigger problems.

It also isn't nor wasn't some arid wasteland like Camden or, increasingly, Trenton like people want to think. All that "savior" mentality ******** is propagandist rich white ******* talk that shows you the right shiny object over here (arena, new bars, etc) while averting your eyes from 2 blocks away where you can buy a bundle of heroin, possibly a burner and/or get your ass jacked.

And, as I emphasized in my initial post: The only thing we ultimately made good on was the arena and a sliver of property across the way. There's no "park" or that proposal to create a walkway from Penn Station to the mouth of the arena. (Don't quote me on this part) Wasn't there also a proposal for the team/arena to create a retail property close-by as well? Not that any of it would have been anything but window-dressing, but still.

Lets put it this way, the guy that owns Facebook has theoretically done more for the city of Newark as a city than the Devils presence has. They had to fight us just to pay the ****ing rent. I guess JVB didn't realize that professional franchises can't get the same perks as Section 8.

Uh, ok...

 

[devilsblood]

I'm not trying to pick on you, specifically...but we should probably all cut the ******** when it comes to the "revival of Newark" aspect. Realistically speaking, this is a quasi-Downtown revival and Ironbound has certainly benefited some as well.

As for the entire city? Not even ****ing close. It's not like it was meant to turn the city into a diamond, either. My problem with it is largely with how it is portrayed as us being some kind of saviors when all we really did was clean up some space, add jobs (which yes is vital) and ultimately cordon off a few blocks the gangs can't fight over anymore. Sure it's a benefit, but it isn't even remotely close to changing Newark's much bigger problems.

It also isn't nor wasn't some arid wasteland like Camden or, increasingly, Trenton like people want to think. All that "savior" mentality ******** is propagandist rich white ******* talk that shows you the right shiny object over here (arena, new bars, etc) while averting your eyes from 2 blocks away where you can buy a bundle of heroin, possibly a burner and/or get your ass jacked.

And, as I emphasized in my initial post: The only thing we ultimately made good on was the arena and a sliver of property across the way. There's no "park" or that proposal to create a walkway from Penn Station to the mouth of the arena. (Don't quote me on this part) Wasn't there also a proposal for the team/arena to create a retail property close-by as well? Not that any of it would have been anything but window-dressing, but still.

Lets put it this way, the guy that owns Facebook has theoretically done more for the city of Newark as a city than the Devils presence has. They had to fight us just to pay the ****ing rent. I guess JVB didn't realize that professional franchises can't get the same perks as Section 8.

I'm not saying the Prudential and the presence of the Devils is the only factor in Newarks renewal, nor am I claiming the renewal is anywhere near completed. But to deny that the Prudential and the Devils have not benefited the city, or to deny that the city has indeed taken significant strides in recent years is as much bull shiznit, as saying the Devils are Newarks savior.

And I have to admit, I have never been to Camden, but Newark at it's worst was about as bad as any city in the country.

 

[Marv4Life]

Arenas were never mean to fix cities overall, but they can help fix a city's downtown, and an improved downtown is very important in the steps to improving the city as a whole. There's work to do obviously(hotels(s) should be put on the lots on Mulberry and west side of the arena should be razed) but compare 2007 to 2013 to see whether or not Downtown has improved. Don't remember a Joe's Crab Shack, a mini restaurant row with housing being put above it, or Panasonic being put in place in 2007.

 

[fortheloveof666]

I'm not saying the Prudential and the presence of the Devils is the only factor in Newarks renewal, nor am I claiming the renewal is anywhere near completed. But to deny that the Prudential and the Devils have not benefited the city, or to deny that the city has indeed taken significant strides in recent years is as much bull shiznit, as saying the Devils are Newarks savior.

And I have to admit, I have never been to Camden, but Newark at it's worst was about as bad as any city in the country.

I prefaced it with not picking on you, specifically, for a reason. haha

My point, in whole, is that the way it gets talked about and the way the team, media, etc have portrayed it is like we've come riding in as some kind of saints and that isn't the case. I'm not undermining the role in bringing people back to the place. But as someone that was going there far prior to the arena's construction, I can tell you that it isn't vastly different. All we did was put out a reason for people to stop being vagines and start going there to see for themselves.

Still, I bet most people wouldn't venture to the city without it coinciding with some event at the Rock and as was evidenced during the lockout (I believe via NJ.com), businesses were suffering badly because of the lack of games.

Now, does that lend itself to us being a reason? Sure, that's undeniable. But that doesn't give you bragging rights for revitalizing the city because people still aren't going there just because. So, if we struggle (or in this case, the league as a whole) then the businesses and the city feel it too because it hasn't reshaped itself as a place that's just worth going to because it's actually a pretty cool city with, what might surprise some people, a pretty good nightlife and restaurants.

Being a catalyst to that kind of change, where people stop needing you (the team/arena) as an excuse, is revitalizing and reinventing a struggling city. But again, the whole city remains largely the same outside the arena and the events therein. The only bragging rights that gives them, ultimately, is they had the balls to go pick there for a home in the first place (which we received plenty of snide remarks for, too).

I love Newark, I always have. But those bombastic claims, are just that. We didn't go dumping millions into schools, we skipped out on rent and had to go through a whole ****in ordeal just to hold up our end of the bargain. There was a plethora of shady tactics and unfulfilled promises and I see that as more of something to look at then the ridiculous claim we saved the city. We didn't. It's purely propaganda, which is precisely why that criminal Sharpe James wanted it so badly, too. Makes good headlines, but it still doesn't fix what was broken to begin with.

Ergo, Newark isn't an inherently better city due to our presence.

 

[DevilChuk*]

Inherently better? no.. but the Devils have had a sizable effect on the economy in the area.

I'm sure businesses around the Rock have seen a significant increase in their foot traffic, etc.

I don't think bringing in a sports team does much to revitalize anything.. and as pointed out, the City of Newark may not be making much of anything from the arena being present.. but the people who work in Newark certainly have.

Also, the new Panasonic building has very, very, very little to do with the Rock being present and much more to do with the state and city providing tax incentives.. it'd be there Rock or not.

 

[devilsblood]

I think u are completely underplaying the role the prudential has played in city.

Let's put aside the financial aspects of what the prudential and Dev's have done for Newark. The new restaurants, hotel's etc.

I think a big role the Dev's in Newark have played is helping erase the stigma that Newark carried(and does continue to a lesser extent) carry with it.

How many hundreds of thousands of people who once thought Newark as nothing more then a giant slum, have been into the city, have had a good time, who are pretty certain will return, who have seen the changes with their own eyes?

And maybe that has yet to really pay off in terms of people going into the city for reasons other then going to the Rock. But at least the idea of going into the city is no longer out of the question. Which for many, and I think rightfully so, it once was.

 

[devilsblood]

Inherently better? no.. but the Devils have had a sizable effect on the economy in the area.

I'm sure businesses around the Rock have seen a significant increase in their foot traffic, etc.

I don't think bringing in a sports team does much to revitalize anything.. and as pointed out, the City of Newark may not be making much of anything from the arena being present.. but the people who work in Newark certainly have.

Also, the new Panasonic building has very, very, very little to do with the Rock being present and much more to do with the state and city providing tax incentives.. it'd be there Rock or not.

See we can say this building would have been built with or without the Rock, or we can say that this or that project would have been built without the rock, but facts say that these projects only occured after the Rock was up and running.