Not good enough - no playoffs again!

[Micklebot]

??

I'm saying your idea is terrible, Dorian'esque.

 

[Senovision]

Oh

I'm saying your idea is terrible, Dorian'esque.

Oh...lets hear your ideas Lol. Im prepared to be underwhelmed.
You have something in mind?

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

?? Zib for Brass ?
Sanderson is overrated and we need a more physical presence who can get 30 points.
We would be losing 10 points a year...but making our team harder to play against.

he's played bad for like 10 games in his nhl career and is probably injured.

the 10 games before he was dominant.

 

[Senovision]

Sanderson would get us more than Chabot would in a trade

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Sanderson would get us more than Chabot would in a trade

that's because he is the much much better player on a better contract and younger.

Stutzle would get us more than Norris in a trade too.

 

[Micklebot]

Sanderson would get us more than Chabot would in a trade

Of course he would, because GMs realize he's a fantastic piece that doesn't become available, like ever.

Oh

Oh...lets hear your ideas Lol. Im prepared to be underwhelmed.
You have something in mind?

My idea is don't trade Sanderson.

 

[Senovision]

Of course he would, because GMs realize he's a fantastic piece that doesn't become available, like ever.

My idea is don't trade Sanderson.

Our d are too soft If the right trade package came up for Sandy it would be a move worth doing. If the right package came up.

 

[StoicSensFan]

Move Sanderson overrated....he has a 40-50 point ceiling (hes on pace for30- 40 points) gets out muscled and doesn't play a physical game.
He has 2 points in his last 12 games and 1 goal all season. If we trade Sanderson who has value especially to a team for a physical steady dman that can get 30 points do it.

Let's trade Yakemchuk too, guy can't put up points for shit

 

[Senovision]

He hasnt had any amazing offensive numbers 5-8 goals a season about 38 points for a soft defenseman that skates well.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Crazy talk

 

[bicboi64]

This would be about as good of a move as trading Zibanejad for Brassard...

Watch trading Sandy for someone old vet defender have us end up in the cup finals.

If that happens, who'll be the Brassard coming back?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Watch trading Sandy for someone old vet defender have us end up in the cup finals.

If that happens, who'll be the Brassard coming back?

Aaron Ekblad?

 

[Xspyrit]

Chabot so far this season... is pretty much back at an elite level (hasn't been since 2021-22), he's Top-10 in several advanced stats

I wouldn't read a lot into that, Sanderson has played about 140 minutes over 15 games with Hamonic. He seems snakebitten on offense right now but that minus can pretty well be attributed to that stretch. Their xGA/60 is 3.09, the only pairing on the team that's over 2.15.

Sanderson started really strong but has been struggling since Zub first got injured. It looked like he was taking the next step but hasn't and that's one of the 3 reasons we don't have a better record IMO (the other 2 are Ullmark and depth scoring, as Perron/Amadio/Gregor/Cousins have a whooping 11 pts in 59 games)

Sanderson-Hamonic 46.3% (140 mins)
Sanderson-Zub 48.1% (112 mins)
Sanderson-Jensen 58.8% (19 mins)
Sanderson-Chabot 62.5% (19 mins)

This team has no superstars. Just having a 90 point season doesn't pass the smell test for me if you are on the losing end of most games. If your plays are the deciding factor on our success or your play is consistently on par with the other teams elite then you get the nod from me. BRADY and Stu are borderline AllStars. Too many players in the league are point a game players now and they just don't stand out.

I don't find this very fair... Since 2022-23 (Stutzle was 20 y/o and Tkachuk 23 y/o), Stu is 21st in PPG among forwards (1.06) and Tkachuk is 31st (0.98). There's 32 teams and our 2 main forwards were Top-32, and Stutzle started that stretch at 20 y/o

Giroux (63rd) and Batherson (78th) are also in the Top-80. Norris was 131st (top-6 forward) despite his injuries. We're lacking a 6th guy as DeBrincat and Tarasenko are gone. None of Pinto or Greig has produced near Top-6 numbers.

I’d say its OK if we barely squeak in this year IF we go on a deep run the following year. Something like winning a couple of rounds & getting into the Conference final would be a decent Year 2 milestone. But if its just squeaking in multiple years in a row, to me that isn’t a huge achievement. That would be achieving mediocrity imho.

Considering it will have taken basically a FULL rebuild and 8 seasons to achieve that, no it wouldn't

 

[bicboi64]

Aaron Ekblad?

I just hope Staios doesn't throw in a 2nd because Florida already paid his signing bonus lol

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I just hope Staios doesn't throw in a 2nd because Florida already paid his signing bonus lol

I am confident those shenanigans went out the door with the last regime.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Move Sanderson overrated....he has a 40-50 point ceiling (hes on pace for30- 40 points) gets out muscled and doesn't play a physical game.
He has 2 points in his last 12 games and 1 goal all season. If we trade Sanderson who has value especially to a team for a physical steady dman that can get 30 points do it.

Pierre?

 

[LiseL]

Got a feeling Brady Tkachuk is playing his final 64 games for Ottawa if they don’t make the playoffs.

Don’t like what I’m hearing

You do realize he's one of the problems right? One of the worse forwards playing away from the puck and cheating for offense. Not a good look when you're the captain. He needs to be part of the solution, lead by example (like Alfie & EK used to do). He says all the right things but talk is cheap. If he doesn't learn how to play the right way, and do it consistently on the ice, then I don't care if he leaves.,

 

[LiseL]

Even those times you mentioned, we generally had an average to below average team..I think most years we allowed more goals than we scored...which is a bad team. They were lucky or pesky and went on a run at the right time.

We haven't actually had a strong team since like 07-08ish when we started to suck.

So like, a good 16 years since we've had a "strong team" that others would actually call a good team.



You need to have a good GM who can win a trade like that.

Last thing you want is a stone-like trade where we get like 2 prospects who don't pan out, some 3rd liner for cap dump, and a low first or something.

Has staios ever won a big trade in his gm career?

I know he's struggling right now, but wouldn't the Ullmark trade count as winning a big trade? Got rid of Korpi and I believe Ullmark will find his game. Also liked the Jensen trade. Saying SS would do a dumb-ass trade like Dorion did is a head scratcher for me. Nothing he's done so far even suggests that's a possibility.

 

[LiseL]

Kinda where I’m at. Last season I didn’t watch the ~20 games after the trade deadline, and I’m someone who misses like 2-3 games per season max. It’s a tad bit early for that for me but I’m getting close to tuning out again. It’s just not a fun way to spend ~10 hours a week.

I tape the games to my PVR so that I can start watching about 1 hr later to fast forward the commercials. When they play like shit, I FF until they score and make it a game again. For some games, I basically FF till the end.

 

[LiseL]

I was bullish on Ullmark heading in, but he has not looked good and the whole key to these guys finding their footing has been lost. I think it's on him too, the team has been mostly fine in his games imo. It's wading in to disaster territory though if they don't reel off a couple wins here quickly and while Forsberg has been better, I don't think he's good enough to take them anywhere right now either. Either Ullmark gets it together or this team is f***ed.

SS had no choice but to give it another go with this core and his options were limited by the lack of assets, but if this season ends like the last few, it's time to make major changes to the core. Re-tool, whatever you want to call it, but I feel like the core is properly supported this year and still can't carry the team consistently the way your best players need to in this league.

When I see Zub handing the puck to the opposition like he did early on last night, I can't help but feel like they're broken in some way. He's better than that. So many times when they're looking good, someone takes them out of it, whether it's the goaltender or a player.

Sandy hasn't been good either. He's been with Zub for a few games now, can't be laid at Hamonic's feet. How is it that as a rookie under DJ, he always played well in the D zone, and now is no longer as consistent. It's really sad and strange how the entire core either plays well or plays badly, except for Stu. He's been one of the more consistent players on this team.

I meant the team as in being part of this organization.

I don't think the skaters have been that bad defensively. Some times here and there, and at the wrong times sometimes but generally they've been good this year at keeping the scoring chances down.

Although I admit I haven't been following ullmark around everywhere for a decade, I don't know if I've seen him look to lack as much confidence as he has right now, at any point in his buffalo or Boston career.

Not saying the skaters broke him lol but it's funny that in a matter of weeks since being part of this organization, his confidence dwindled to the point he looks nervous and tentative in net by November.

I guess we're not known as the goalie graveyard for nothing.

 

[Xspyrit]

I feel like we thought they were better than they were. Like other teams fans wouldn't rank them nearly as high as we did. Hoffman was pretty one dimensional and inconsistent. Turris though a good two way center, was more of a second line center... Ryan was slow and not a good top 2 line player for most of his time here. MacArthur missed like 90% of a 2-3 year window.

The team had no depth and no structure and no elite skill.

Stone was good. Zibanejad later became good. Karlsson was good. You only really had 2 stars and one who later became one after being gone.

The team's winning cups at that time were stacked with star power and depth and structure compared to that team.

They relied on Karlsson,Anderson, and stone, and other than Karlsson, those guys weren't even near the top guys in the league at their position.

It was all pesky and timing and being clutch. Karlsson and Anderson and stone were not superstars(well, Karlsson was) but it was the fact that they were so clutch that they could go on a winning steak to save the season or win a playoff round.

This team is better on paper, but lacks any type of "clutch" ability to even make the playoffs or go on a streak or do anything right when it matters it seems.

Outside of Karlsson, the Sens fanbase didn't really overhype the rest of them... Zibanejad turned out much better than people thought, same for Stone for example.

In the 6 "peak" seasons (2011-12 to 2016-17) of this core after just ONE retool year (2010-11), they made the playoffs 4 times out of 6 seasons and won 3 rounds, even making the ECF game 7 double OT. I'd easily take that over the current 8 seasons stretch we are currently experiencing.

- Hoffman : he was maybe all offense but was used smartly and sheltered the right way, his goal differential and advanced stats were positive as a result

- Turris : this is what I said that he was a good 2-way center even if it was "only" on the 2nd line, which is perfectly fine and an important role on a hockey team

- Ryan : he was still a top line forward when he came in 2013-14 and produced quite well in the first 3 seasons despite running into a lot of injuries. I posted the stats before but he had a very good start in 2013-14 and 2014-15 before he got injured then struggled when coming back. He regressed in the last year of this core's peak but came up BIG in the playoffs being the 2nd MVP behind EK

- MacArthur : was an excellent 2-way forward for us but unfortunately that didn't last because of concussions.

There was also Alfredsson still there in the first 2 years and Spezza in the first 3 years. Spezza's PPG was 0.97 during those years which was the 13th best in the NHL

=====================================

Ok so below I looked at the full seasons with Ottawa from these forwards and how they fared in NHL scoring. Keep in mind that 30 teams x 3 = 90 top line forwards

From 2011-12 to 2016-17, Kyle Turris (22 y/o) had the 73th best and Zack Smith had the 258th best PPG among forwards (min. 200 games). Note that 366 forwards played more than 200 games during that stretch

From 2014-15 to 2016-17, Mark Stone (22 y/o) had the 27th best, Mike Hoffman had the 52th best and JG Pageau had the 196th best PPG among forwards (min. 100 games)

From 2012-13 to 2015-16, Mika Zibanejad (19 y/o) had the 126th best PPG among forwards (min. 150 games)

From 2013-14 to 2016-17, Bobby Ryan had the 92th best PPG among forwards (min. 150 games)

From 2013-14 to 2014-15, Clarke MacArthur had the 88th best PPG among forwards (min. 50 games)

From 2011-12 to 2014-15, Milan Michalek had the 117th best PPG among forwards (min. 150 games)

So to summarize :

1st line numbers : Stone (high), Hoffman (average), Turris (low), MacArthur (low)
2nd line numbers : Ryan (high), Michalek (average), Zibanejad (average)
3rd line numbers : Pageau (high), Smith (low)

I don't think they lacked at forward, outside a real 1st line C (Zibanejad?)

Hoffman - Zibanejad - Stone
MacArthur - Turris - Ryan
Smith - Pageau - Michalek

That's a pretty good top-9 to me but rarely healthy and not all developed or in their prime at the same time... What they had over our current forward group is 2-way ability... Stone, Turris, MacArthur, Pageau, Smith, Michalek all excellent defensively. There was also Chris Neil on the 4th line, even if not in his prime anymore. Dzingel arrived in 2015 too. No surprise they had better team results.

 

[Relapsing]

You do realize he's one of the problems right? One of the worse forwards playing away from the puck and cheating for offense. Not a good look when you're the captain. He needs to be part of the solution, lead by example (like Alfie & EK used to do). He says all the right things but talk is cheap. If he doesn't learn how to play the right way, and do it consistently on the ice, then I don't care if he leaves.,

Preach. I sincerely do not care if he's a senator or not anymore. He's had long enough to figure it out.

 

[jg729]

Another season over. I see the pattern, if the team goes on a 4-5 game losing streak in Oct or Nov without any winning streaks, basically it’s no playoffs

 

[Stylizer1]

Chabot

Chabot so far this season... is pretty much back at an elite level (hasn't been since 2021-22), he's Top-10 in several advanced stats



Sanderson started really strong but has been struggling since Zub first got injured. It looked like he was taking the next step but hasn't and that's one of the 3 reasons we don't have a better record IMO (the other 2 are Ullmark and depth scoring, as Perron/Amadio/Gregor/Cousins have a whooping 11 pts in 59 games)

Sanderson-Hamonic 46.3% (140 mins)
Sanderson-Zub 48.1% (112 mins)
Sanderson-Jensen 58.8% (19 mins)
Sanderson-Chabot 62.5% (19 mins)



I don't find this very fair... Since 2022-23 (Stutzle was 20 y/o and Tkachuk 23 y/o), Stu is 21st in PPG among forwards (1.06) and Tkachuk is 31st (0.98). There's 32 teams and our 2 main forwards were Top-32, and Stutzle started that stretch at 20 y/o

Giroux (63rd) and Batherson (78th) are also in the Top-80. Norris was 131st (top-6 forward) despite his injuries. We're lacking a 6th guy as DeBrincat and Tarasenko are gone. None of Pinto or Greig has produced near Top-6 numbers.



Considering it will have taken basically a FULL rebuild and 8 seasons to achieve that, no it wouldn't

Chabot was never at an elite level. He got the minutes and produced. There are a lot of dmen in the league if given the chance would produce. It doesn't mean they are elite. I always make the comparison to Paul George of the NBA's 76's or Demar Derozan of the Kings. Great players when given the minutes but are borderline Allstars from their play. Chabot os a second pairing dman moonlighting as a #1. When a rookie comes in and basically is as effective as a player with 7 seasons under their belt is all the argument one needs.

And please don't ever bring up Ricky Bobby Ryan ever again. THE GUY SUCKED no matter how you spin it.

 

[Xspyrit]

Chabot

Chabot was never at an elite level. He got the minutes and produced. There are a lot of dmen in the league if given the chance would produce. It doesn't mean they are elite. I always make the comparison to Paul George of the NBA's 76's or Demar Derozan of the Kings. Great players when given the minutes but are borderline Allstars from their play. Chabot os a second pairing dman moonlighting as a #1. When a rookie comes in and basically is as effective as a player with 7 seasons under their belt is all the argument one needs.

And please don't ever bring up Ricky Bobby Ryan ever again. THE GUY SUCKED no matter how you spin it.

It's ok, you have the right to rely on your opinions. A lot of raw and advanced stats show how good Chabot has been in the past. It's no coincidence that he was often ranked in the Top-20/30 among Ds of many people

It also depends what "elite" means for you. If it means Quinn Hughes level then of course he was never at that level but based on the fact that there's 32 teams, being Top-32 at your position, IMO you're part of the elite.

Same for Ryan, raw and advanced stats also tell another story. From 2013-14 to 2015-16, he was 67th in PPG among NHL forwards, which is comfortably first line numbers... And that was despite being diminished by a lot of injuries. As we saw last season with Stutzle, I think most people will agree that being hampered by injuries is a real thing.