Non-Sharks NorCal Sports Thread XXVI

[sjsharks92]

Doesn't Malcom Smith play OLB? I would expect him to be an edge rusher in that position

No he's more of an inside linebacker. He really struggled in coverage last season but he's a great tackler and seems to always be in the right place. Easily an upgrade over any of our other options. And at 27 he's still got plenty of good football left in him.

 

[DrFeelgood]

No he's more of an inside linebacker. He really struggled in coverage last season but he's a great tackler and seems to always be in the right place. Easily an upgrade over any of our other options. And at 27 he's still got plenty of good football left in him.

PFR has him listed as an OLB

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitMa02.htm

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I've gone far enough down this rabbit hole with you.

Kap's gone and it's for the better. The rest of the NFL doesn't seem to have interest in him as a starting QB. He'll get signed and may eventually get playing time somewhere. But the reason he's not getting looked at by anyone right now is because his play the last 3 seasons hasn't been that of a starting caliber QB. Plain and simple.

It's presumptuous to believe he's not getting looked at and even more presumptuous as to why based off of that. But at the end of the day, the point was about whether or not he was a much worse option than Hoyer and you still haven't supported that statement with anything at all.

 

[sjsharks92]

PFR has him listed as an OLB

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitMa02.htm

I suppose that's possible, but based on watching the Raiders play you really wouldn't know. He's certainly not an OLB in the traditional sense of being a pass rusher.

 

[sjsharks92]

It's presumptuous to believe he's not getting looked at and even more presumptuous as to why based off of that. But at the end of the day, the point was about whether or not he was a much worse option than Hoyer and you still haven't supported that statement with anything at all.

Hoyer's 2015-2016 numbers

17 games played
26 TDs : 7 INTs
4051 yards
64.7 completion %
7.6 yards per attempt
95.4 QB rating
Sacked 29 times (1.71 times per game)
+Experience with Shanahan's offense, Shanahan wanted him
Will be paid $6 million by 49ers this season. Potentially $8 million with incentives

Kap's 2015-2016 numbers

21 games played
22 TDs : 9 INTs
3856 yards
59.1 completion %
6.7 yards per attempt
84.2 QB rating
Sacked 64 times (3.05 times per game. I know you don't like this stat because it paints an ugly picture of Kap's lack of awareness but it's an integral part of playing QB)
Would be paid $14 million by 49ers this season.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Hoyer's 2015-2016 numbers

17 games played
26 TDs : 7 INTs
4051 yards
64.7 completion %
7.6 yards per attempt
95.4 QB rating
Sacked 29 times (1.71 times per game)
+Experience with Shanahan's offense, Shanahan wanted him
Will be paid $6 million by 49ers this season. Potentially $8 million with incentives

Kap's 2015-2016 numbers

21 games played
22 TDs : 9 INTs
3856 yards
59.1 completion %
6.7 yards per attempt
84.2 QB rating
Sacked 64 times (3.05 times per game. I know you don't like this stat because it paints an ugly picture of Kap's lack of awareness but it's an integral part of playing QB)
Would be paid $14 million by 49ers this season.

The stat is the stat. It's how one interprets it and I simply don't believe that a QB getting sacked is on the QB like you do. The QB has certain responsibilities and the line has them too. You pin it entirely on the QB which makes no sense whatsoever.

Big difference between Hoyer and Kap in those numbers? Hoyer was playing under John Fox and Bill O'Brien. Kap was playing under Tomsula and Kelly who had no offensive talent in skill positions past Hyde. Given those circumstances, pretty easy to see why the numbers are what they are. QB only goes so far when talent and coaching are issues. And just because Shanahan knows Hoyer doesn't mean anything. Hoyer simply isn't that good and I think Kap would've had considerably better numbers under Shanahan because that tends to happen when you actually have a decent gameplan and talent to work with.

If you put Hoyer on the 49ers the past two seasons, he'd be significantly worse than Kap or Gabbert.

 

[sjsharks92]

The stat is the stat. It's how one interprets it and I simply don't believe that a QB getting sacked is on the QB like you do. The QB has certain responsibilities and the line has them too. You pin it entirely on the QB which makes no sense whatsoever.

Big difference between Hoyer and Kap in those numbers? Hoyer was playing under John Fox and Bill O'Brien. Kap was playing under Tomsula and Kelly who had no offensive talent in skill positions past Hyde. Given those circumstances, pretty easy to see why the numbers are what they are. QB only goes so far when talent and coaching are issues. And just because Shanahan knows Hoyer doesn't mean anything. Hoyer simply isn't that good and I think Kap would've had considerably better numbers under Shanahan because that tends to happen when you actually have a decent gameplan and talent to work with.

If you put Hoyer on the 49ers the past two seasons, he'd be significantly worse than Kap or Gabbert.

I don't pin it entirely on the QB. But the QB absolutely has an impact on how often he is sacked. You won't find any NFL evaluator who says otherwise. Kap simply has never developed the ability to know when to step up in the pocket, when to throw it away, and when/when not to scramble. Hoyer's O-lines weren't good either and there's a huge difference between being sacked 1.7 times per game and 3 times per game.

I challenge you to actually do some research on your own and look up Hoyer's options/weapons last season with the Bears and the season before with the Texans (hint: it's no better than the 49ers). I think upon doing that you'll recognize that your statement that Hoyer would be "significantly worse than Kap or Gabbert" is a fallacy. It's time to let go of your personal feelings for Kap and start looking at the full picture.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I don't pin it entirely on the QB. But the QB absolutely has an impact on how often he is sacked. You won't find any NFL evaluator who says otherwise. Kap simply has never developed the ability to know when to step up in the pocket, when to throw it away, and when/when not to scramble. Hoyer's O-lines weren't good either and there's a huge difference between being sacked 1.7 times per game and 3 times per game.

I challenge you to actually do some research on your own and look up Hoyer's options/weapons last season with the Bears and the season before with the Texans (hint: it's no better than the 49ers). I think upon doing that you'll recognize that your statement that Hoyer would be "significantly worse than Kap or Gabbert" is a fallacy.

lol seriously? I'd take Alshon Jeffery, Cameron Meredith, Zach Miller, and DeAndre Hopkins over any of the receivers that the 49ers had for Kaepernick the past two seasons. To pretend like that's no better than the 49ers is utterly ridiculous.

 

[sjsharks92]

lol seriously? I'd take Alshon Jeffery, Cameron Meredith, Zach Miller, and DeAndre Hopkins over any of the receivers that the 49ers had for Kaepernick the past two seasons. To pretend like that's no better than the 49ers is utterly ridiculous.

Alshon Jeffrey played all of 1 half with Hoyer before getting injured. Cameron Meredith was a nobody until Hoyer stepped in. Again, please do the research. Apparently when I give you the stats/research myself it's just "the stat is the stat".

Also, Zach Miller? He of the career high of 486 reception yards and 47 catches? C'mon (Although to be fair that career year was with Hoyer as QB)

 

[DrFeelgood]

Just don't bother, you're not going to convince him that Kap is not worth $14 million

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Alshon Jeffrey played all of 1 half with Hoyer before getting injured. Cameron Meredith was a nobody until Hoyer stepped in. Again, please do the research. Apparently when I give you the stats/research myself it's just "the stat is the stat".

Also, Zach Miller? He of the career high of 486 reception yards? C'mon

You keep saying do the research yet you're not even looking at how they compare to what was there with the 49ers and completely ignored that the bulk of Hoyer's numbers came with the Texans and that came with having someone like Hopkins to catch the ball. Even the ones you're diminishing compare favorably to guys like Smith, Kerley, Boldin in his last year here, and guys like McDonald and Celek.

So take your own advice and do the research.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Just don't bother, you're not going to convince him that Kap is not worth $14 million

That's not the point at all.

 

[sjsharks92]

Just don't bother, you're not going to convince him that Kap is not worth $14 million

I'm done now.

 

[DrFeelgood]

That's not the point at all.

Then what is the point? That he'd be a better option than Hoyer on a rebuilding team? It's better for everyone to just move on from him and let both parties move on with their lives.

I don't think anybody is arguing that Hoyer is the future of the franchise and clearly Kaepernick isn't either. Which guy is going to get more wins out of the team is debatable but either way it's not going to be a lot of them. Niners are better off starting fresh at QB with a new HC and new front office with someone that has run Shanahan's offense before than a guy that hasn't shown much QB progression in a handful of years and is debatable whether or not he can run the kind of system Shanahan runs.

 

[DrFeelgood]

 

[DrFeelgood]

 

[USF Shark]

I like the signings by the Niners. I think the Hoyer and Garcon signings are smart for a couple reasons: 1) they are both quality players who will be productive for a year or two, and 2) they will be able to teach other players, especially younger players who will be drafted to be the future of the team, the Shanahan playbook.

This especially applies to Hoyer who is a smart football player and will help whoever the Niners draft at QB to learn the playbook a bit quicker.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Then what is the point? That he'd be a better option than Hoyer on a rebuilding team? It's better for everyone to just move on from him and let both parties move on with their lives.

I don't think anybody is arguing that Hoyer is the future of the franchise and clearly Kaepernick isn't either. Which guy is going to get more wins out of the team is debatable but either way it's not going to be a lot of them. Niners are better off starting fresh at QB with a new HC and new front office with someone that has run Shanahan's offense before than a guy that hasn't shown much QB progression in a handful of years and is debatable whether or not he can run the kind of system Shanahan runs.

The point was to refute the idea that he'd be a much worse option than Hoyer. Their salaries don't matter here for one year and their productivity isn't any different and Hoyer probably had better situations to deal with. That's it.

 

[Grave]

Why do you even care about the QB its just a body at this point.

I'm a little confused by the malcolm smith signing they paid him like they expect more than he is capable of. Would of rather they threw even more money at Hightower but ill give them a pass because most of the other signings were pretty strong imo.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Besides all the money for a ****ing fullback.

 

[Grave]

Besides all the money for a ****ing fullback.

The best fullback that is utilized in a lot of the offense, I don't have an issue with how they paid juice.

Where Kyle Jusczyk lined up on offense in 2016:
HB 51% (mostly pass plays)
FB 32%
Slot 8%
Wide 7%
TE 3%

He is pretty much going to be a more versatile albeit slower Delanie Walker

 

[sjsharks92]

I like the signings by the Niners. I think the Hoyer and Garcon signings are smart for a couple reasons: 1) they are both quality players who will be productive for a year or two, and 2) they will be able to teach other players, especially younger players who will be drafted to be the future of the team, the Shanahan playbook.

This especially applies to Hoyer who is a smart football player and will help whoever the Niners draft at QB to learn the playbook a bit quicker.

Bingo.

49ers top concern right now needs to be filling their locker room with consummate professionals. They're so far off from contending that they just need to bring in good influences for the younger players. They've done that so far.

 

[sjsharks92]

Besides all the money for a ****ing fullback.

We definitely overpaid but I'm ok with it purely because Juzscyk immediately becomes the best player at his respective position on the roster besides Bowman.

 

[sjsharks92]

The point was to refute the idea that he'd be a much worse option than Hoyer. Their salaries don't matter here for one year and their productivity isn't any different and Hoyer probably had better situations to deal with. That's it.

This is getting pathetic.

 

[DrFeelgood]