OT: Non-Kraken Local Sports (Mariners, Seahawks, Sounders, etc.)
- Thread starter Fistfullofbeer
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The Marquis
Moderator
Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
I am skeptical that many of our local fans will be that interested in juniors. But there will be a lot of folks coming down from BC, that is for sure.
The Marquis
Moderator
It didn't really pan out last time though. empty arena's for every game except those involving Canada. I'd go, but the ticket prices are going to need to be dirt cheap.
RainyCityHockey
Registered User
I'll put it in here cause it certainly doesn't belong in the offseason thread.
There are no guarantees, never.
Still, look at that ownership group and their connection to the NBA and even specifically Adam Silver.
Tim Leiweke --> builds arenas for the NBA/NHL forever and has ties to Stern/Silver thanks to not only building arenas(and finding solutions in that matter) but also having worked with the NBA on other things.
David Bonderman --> minority owner of the Boston Celtics, fully in the know of most things NBA(owner wise) and certainly a guy who knows business.
Tod Leiweke --> has worked for NBA/NHL franchises, sometimes even on the behest of Stern/Silver like he did in Toronto with the Raptors.
There's no way that group goes threw all the clusterf*** that is Seattle politics and pays roughly $1.2billion(partially thanks to making late additions to the arena especially and only for NBA purposes) for an arena without any kind of heads up by the NBA that they're "next in line".
I mean, no one pays all that money for an arena with only an NHL and WNBA team as the main tennants.
I would suggest you to listen to more interviews of Leiweke or other members of the owner ship group.
They're saying the same thing since 2018 and that is the plan is to bring the Sonics back but that they're not going to respect the process of the NBA.
Recently they've been a bit more upbeat about it and have said that they're very positive about the process.
You all of a sudden used that as if it was something the league didn't like and that's why they might rethink giving a team to Seattle.
You also said that the talk wouldn't be before 2025 using the TV deal even though that one runs out in 2025 and it is widely known that it will be negotiated next spring.
And then you bring up Seattle having to wait longer than Vegas and having to "fight other markets" to even get a team.
I also never suggested Seattle would get a team in 2025, so we agree on that one.
Overall that's just a very negative outlook, IMO.
It's a position I can understand given the sh*** that was done to this market by the NBA between 2006 -2008 and after that as well.
Though, I don't think it's appropriate given the players involved in this current Seattle group.
Also, the talk about "having to convince the NBA with selling tickets for the Kraken" is just another PR speak by Leiweke.
If that was the case and the NBA needed more evidence of Seattle supporting their teams they should fire all their consultants cause there's nothing more, in regards to that, the market and sportsfans of Seattle could possibly do.
I also don't really see where else they would put it.
Mexico City's mentioned often.
Does anyone really believe NBA players making $10M - $50M a year want to live in Mexico?
Those are the same guys that wanted(probably still want) no part of going to Canada cause it's not the US.
Other cities include St. Louis and Kansas City.
Do you really put a team there instead of Seattel?
What else is there?
A third team in New York or Los Angeles?
A fourth team in Texas with OKC right in the back yard of Dallas(what's why Cuban voted against the Sonics move) already?
Reviving Oracle Arena in Oakland to create another rival for the Warriors and the fith team in California?
Or San Diego, where they just lost the Chargers?
On top of that, this is not to attack you, personally. It might come off given that it's not my first language but that's not what is meant by it.
BTW: I would suggest you watching a couple of interviews from Iconic Sonics, if you havenÄt so far..
They had Leiweke, Samantho Holloway etc. on.
It's usually a really interesting listen/watch.
The one I found pretty interesting was with Kurt Badinghausen, who is a valuation reporter at sportico(also former senior editor at Forbes) and knows most numbers/has some inside knowledge on things like NBA expansion.
So let's see what happens.
I just can't see a situation where the league expands and Seattle isn't included.
There are no guarantees, never.
Still, look at that ownership group and their connection to the NBA and even specifically Adam Silver.
Tim Leiweke --> builds arenas for the NBA/NHL forever and has ties to Stern/Silver thanks to not only building arenas(and finding solutions in that matter) but also having worked with the NBA on other things.
David Bonderman --> minority owner of the Boston Celtics, fully in the know of most things NBA(owner wise) and certainly a guy who knows business.
Tod Leiweke --> has worked for NBA/NHL franchises, sometimes even on the behest of Stern/Silver like he did in Toronto with the Raptors.
There's no way that group goes threw all the clusterf*** that is Seattle politics and pays roughly $1.2billion(partially thanks to making late additions to the arena especially and only for NBA purposes) for an arena without any kind of heads up by the NBA that they're "next in line".
I mean, no one pays all that money for an arena with only an NHL and WNBA team as the main tennants.
I would suggest you to listen to more interviews of Leiweke or other members of the owner ship group.
They're saying the same thing since 2018 and that is the plan is to bring the Sonics back but that they're not going to respect the process of the NBA.
Recently they've been a bit more upbeat about it and have said that they're very positive about the process.
You all of a sudden used that as if it was something the league didn't like and that's why they might rethink giving a team to Seattle.
You also said that the talk wouldn't be before 2025 using the TV deal even though that one runs out in 2025 and it is widely known that it will be negotiated next spring.
And then you bring up Seattle having to wait longer than Vegas and having to "fight other markets" to even get a team.
I also never suggested Seattle would get a team in 2025, so we agree on that one.
Overall that's just a very negative outlook, IMO.
It's a position I can understand given the sh*** that was done to this market by the NBA between 2006 -2008 and after that as well.
Though, I don't think it's appropriate given the players involved in this current Seattle group.
Also, the talk about "having to convince the NBA with selling tickets for the Kraken" is just another PR speak by Leiweke.
If that was the case and the NBA needed more evidence of Seattle supporting their teams they should fire all their consultants cause there's nothing more, in regards to that, the market and sportsfans of Seattle could possibly do.
I also don't really see where else they would put it.
Mexico City's mentioned often.
Does anyone really believe NBA players making $10M - $50M a year want to live in Mexico?
Those are the same guys that wanted(probably still want) no part of going to Canada cause it's not the US.
Other cities include St. Louis and Kansas City.
Do you really put a team there instead of Seattel?
What else is there?
A third team in New York or Los Angeles?
A fourth team in Texas with OKC right in the back yard of Dallas(what's why Cuban voted against the Sonics move) already?
Reviving Oracle Arena in Oakland to create another rival for the Warriors and the fith team in California?
Or San Diego, where they just lost the Chargers?
On top of that, this is not to attack you, personally. It might come off given that it's not my first language but that's not what is meant by it.
BTW: I would suggest you watching a couple of interviews from Iconic Sonics, if you havenÄt so far..
They had Leiweke, Samantho Holloway etc. on.
It's usually a really interesting listen/watch.
The one I found pretty interesting was with Kurt Badinghausen, who is a valuation reporter at sportico(also former senior editor at Forbes) and knows most numbers/has some inside knowledge on things like NBA expansion.
So let's see what happens.
I just can't see a situation where the league expands and Seattle isn't included.
First of all, thank you for taking the time to explain your position, and for the record, I did not think you were personally attacking me, but I asked why you were attacking my post, which was just stating facts.
I understand now, and I believe it is because you missed the context of my reply. TommyLee said Seattle was guaranteed the NBA expansion. I was playing devil's advocate and I do still personally believe that there is no guarantee and that Seattle's ownership is concerned. That is my position and opinion, and I believe it is behind Francis's change in MO.
Now, in terms of your position, I also believe they are a likely candidate to get a franchise, but I strongly believe Vegas is the first in line. You mention Tim Leiweke as top player in the ownership group, him and Oakview are the driving force behind the arenas and expansion, but he is not part of the Seattle ownership group, no? In fact, Oak view is based in Vegas and they are currently developing a state of the art NBA facility/complex in Vegas and are the force behind the Vegas expansion, are they not? Oakview operates Climate Pledge, but when it comes to expansion, I thought they were the competitors, am I wrong on that?
Lastly, in terms of Silver"s remarks, you assumed I meant that they showed that the NBa was mad at Todd Leiweke and was going to punish him for his expansion talk. I never said that. I think they do annoy Silver, but in a humorous way. I just included the shout-out in his presser about Todd's repeated public statements regarding the expansion as a funny anecdote.
So in summary, I agree with you that they are a likely candidate for expansion but I disagree with TommyLee that they are a guaranteed candidate. I think Vegas has a guarantee with the summer league there and Tim Leiweke building the arena now with no tenants, and I think if the NBA only adds one team at a time, Vegas is first.
RainyCityHockey
Registered User
Let's agree to disagree on this one.
I don't see the NBA expanding by only one team playing with an odd number and I think Seattle's part of that expansion.
I mean, the only reason the NHL expanded within a couple of years was the fact that Seattle didn't have an arena and needed some more time for it.
Kevinsane
Kraken up.
It’s not a true “border” venue. It’s 2.5 hours, a weak CDN dollar, and a border away. The insane hype (and pressure on the kids) in Canada is manufactured by TSN, a national sports network. Many many many Canadians watch the World Juniors who don’t even support their local junior teams, and there is zero chance that concocted patriotism is transferable to the USA.
Even the most ardent hockey fans in Washington aren’t going to fall for the ridiculous ticket prices Hockey Canada asks for the WJC.
The Marquis
Moderator
I think you misunderstand me. I’m not talking about this coming WJC, I’m talking about the last one, or the one before that. The Edmonton one. It was a joke.
Kevinsane
Kraken up.
Oh, agreed. I thought we were talking about the prospect of Seattle hosting.
Hockey Canada is a greed machine, which is why nobody bought tickets. Why would anyone shell out $200 to watch Slovakia versus Slovenia?
I bought tickets to a few games to the 2019 WJHC in Vancouver. The games were priced in tiers with Canada games much more valued than others. I got front row for Russia-Czech for <$100 and lower bowl Switzerland-Denmark for like $30. Per wiki, only the Canada games sold out in Vancouver and the Victoria games were well attended per the capacity (~6K). Even going back to the 2010 Olympics, the marquee games were expensive but the lesser ones were reasonable but still $100 get in from what I recall.
In Seattle, you could expect attendance similar to what Buffalo saw in 2018 (the last time the US hosted, and 2nd time Buffalo hosted in 8 years) where the highest attended game was Canada-Finland at only 9,553. No game had more than 10K until the gold medal game.
In Seattle, you could expect attendance similar to what Buffalo saw in 2018 (the last time the US hosted, and 2nd time Buffalo hosted in 8 years) where the highest attended game was Canada-Finland at only 9,553. No game had more than 10K until the gold medal game.
The Marquis
Moderator
$30 get in is too high if the building isn't getting to like 66% full. You can either get $0 from me, or like $15 for a ticket, $10 for a drink and $12 for something shitty to eat. So.. $0? or $37? What would you rather have. I'd even pay $20 to get in. It's junior hockey ffs. Teenage kids.
Scomerica
Registered User
The Marquis
Moderator
Kevinsane
Kraken up.
LightningStorm
Lightning/Mets/Vikings
What I wonder is if the growing phenomenon of cord cutting, which had led to the increasing collapse of Regional Sports Network, will lead to the M's being able to increase their BC fanbase. Once the M's were off TV in BC and the Rogers propaganda took over, that was a huge roadblock. But with streaming being the future, Rogers' stranglehold on Canada will likely be less profound.
BC residents cheer the Raptors because the Sonics got moved to OKC after the Grizzlies got moved. Been 15 years now and Toronto has an NBA title to their name. When the Sonics do return in a few years, I don't foresee them having the same presence in Vancouver they had pre NBA expansion into Canada. Entire generation of fans will have grown up with the Raptors who would up around 40 and under would lean Raptors.
As for the Mariners/Jays, Seattle went a very long time without PO. Jays as well, until a few years ago when they made it restoring the brand. Plus, they are now the big team for the A league Canadians, so more of a tie in for those who support A ball.
Kevinsane
Kraken up.
The tie in helps, agreed, and I guess winning is everything. If the Mariners win a World Series before the Jays do, and maybe most importantly are available on TV’s in BC, perhaps they claw back some of that support.
As far as the Raptors go, a decade of futility (and it’s likely) will see a draw to a new Sonics team if they’re exciting out of the gate.
At least I hope so.
Eff all things Toronto.
All depends on how Seattle does. Milwaukee won because they drafted Giannis. Not going to attract free agents to Milwaukee.The tie in helps, agreed, and I guess winning is everything. If the Mariners win a World Series before the Jays do, and maybe most importantly are available on TV’s in BC, perhaps they claw back some of that support.
As far as the Raptors go, a decade of futility (and it’s likely) will see a draw to a new Sonics team if they’re exciting out of the gate.
At least I hope so.
Eff all things Toronto.
Seattle is above Indiana, Utah, Sacramento, etc. below LA, GS, Probably LV who would join with them, likely AZ since they play during fall and winter this weather advantage to attract free agents.
Toronto, easier now for them to get players vs the 90’s and early millennium. But, they aren’t a top tiered destination.
Sucks Van lost the grizzlies and Montreal lost the Expos. Would Have another team to cheer for. Weak Canadian dollar and no one local stepped up at the time.
Kevinsane
Kraken up.
If the playoffs hadn’t been wiped out that year there’s a chance the Expos could’ve gone to the World Series. We know from the M’s history how one electrifying playoff can energize a city, get a new stadium built, and save a franchise.
The Grizzlies? Man, poor decisions from day one. They seemed almost cursed.
Poor decisions, for sure. Then add in the whiney players who didn't want to come here. Harrington and the rain. Someone gets drunk upon hearing that they got dealt here. Francis pouting. Bibby not happy. Big Country not being committed to fitness. Losing, then on top of that the whiny players from that era.
