Post-Game Talk: Noel Watch Begins! Jets nap to a 2-1 loss

[Darth Handsome*]

What have these guys been working on all week?? They haven't fixed a thing.

 

[cocorico]

No offense, finally a 5 on 3 tally, 100% penalty kill.
Not sure why the D pairings were changing (injury to Toby?, missed some shifts, then came back on the power play).
Trouba logged big minutes, got himself out of trouble a couple of times. Big money players weren't special. Stuart played very well.

 

[Guerzy]

I don't really buy the talent/"flawed core" argument.

This team has a legitimate first line. It has the making of a decent second line (potentially very good second line if Scheifele can ascend). It has three talented (albeit flawed, in their own way) blueliners, and a fourth in Trouba who should be joining their ranks in no time.

Depth is a problem, but honestly, the margins between teams with great 3rd/4th lines and teams with poor 3rd/4th lines is pretty thin. Goaltending typically isn't good, but as we've seen through four games, solid goaltending isn't getting us very far.

It's beginning to point to one thing.

Honestly, Hank, I'm going to tend to agree with you here.

I am all for giving people a chance, or chances, for that matter. I have a good amount of confidence in Cheveldayoff to this point given the circumstances and what he's trying to do, overall I like what I see. Not perfect, but I believe I have somewhat of an understanding of what he's intending on doing here so as far as the GM goes I feel fairly confident and comfortable in that area.

As for Noel, I like him but as I've said before, like any fan will do with pretty well every coach, I have my questions about him. I was (and am) all for Noel having this season, or at least until around Christmas depending on the results, to see what he can do with this roster. To me, this is a solid enough roster that there are very little excuses if we're not getting some positive results. And Noel's lame duck extension screams the words from the GM "this is my roster, you should be able to coach it to success", if not, Noel is likely, without question, gone.

Add in our huge amount of home games here to begin the year, and it will be very concerning if things don't fix themselves over this amount of time.

Right now, it's a new year, a new season, but it's still feeling the same and I'm just not sure what to think. Like you, Hank, it's crossed my mind over the beginning of the season here that perhaps Noel won't be the guy for the job here. I'm beginning to wonder if he simply is of no fit for this group. I've never said he "is" or "isn't", but I've always been open to seeing what he can do, just as I am with with the GM and players. I know it's early, and I don't like to jump the gun, but it's been a thought of mine that if things don't pick-up soon, some big questions will be raised in the direction of Noel.

You see other coaches step into teams and they endure success sooner than later, their "system" seems to fall in to place with relative ease. Why not here? why into year 3 are we still looking like a team trying to "learn the system", why do we still look quite awful defensively and why can this group not start a game like they want to win? Something just may not be of fit here. I think our roster is fine talent wise and our offseason additions appear to fit in well, Pavelec has been good... why does it feel the same? I'm thinking more like you here Hank, perhaps it is indeed beginning to point in a certain direction?

 

[Tdoe42]

I was excited about having Minnesota in our division for the sake of being geographical rivals, but as a former Canucks fan tonight reminded me just how big of a stinker these Minny games usually turn out to be. Just god awful... sadly mostly at the fault of our own team this time, not the way they play.

That reminded me of every Oiler/Wild game I watched over the last cpl years. Hot Garbage!

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

Bogo needs to be better for sure, but Noel and Huddy have to stop jerking him around. They play him RD, then LD, then RD, and for the past couple of games with Clitsome until Clitsome gets the hook. I think he played with four different D partners tonight. Noel needs to settle down his pairings.

The Jets killed all of the penalties tonight, but looked lousy doing it. They were lucky that the Wild didn't pop a couple of PP goals. Can someone please explain to me how one of the best PKers from last season on the 'Hawks can't crack the Jets' PK?

Wheeler and Ladd have been awful for most of the season so far.

I know what the stats say about FO wins and shots, but boy you could see how never winning a face-off influences the flow of the game. The Jets were chasing the puck constantly. Little 1/20 on the FO? Seriously?

Trouba was rock solid, and really the only Jet skater that looked like he knew what he was doing out there.

Pavs had another strong game. Too bad Clitsome took his stick away on the winning goal.

I think this is a great post. We have heard so much about getting the right linemates for Kane, but I think the next priority is getting the right partner for Bogo. He needs to play on the right side. Few defenceman in the NHL play both sides. I don't know many who play both sides equally well. Only one that comes to mind is Bouwmeester.

As much as it helps Trouba develop, Bogo is getting stunted by this. Really looking forward to Morrissey getting here.

 

[Teppo]

That reminded me of every Oiler/Wild game I watched over the last cpl years. Hot Garbage!

The Wild are a completely different team than what they have been in the past. They actually have a pretty decent level of talent now and forecheck very aggressively. This year the dman are pinching in and taking a lot more chances than in years past.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Welcome to the western conference. You have to play hard in order to win. The Jets had zero compete last night

 

[Guerzy]

Welcome to the western conference. You have to play hard in order to win. The Jets had zero compete last night

I hope this serves as a wake-up call. What I find the most disappointing, is this group seems to "play up" or "play down" to their opponents. A week ago tonight when we faced LA, sure we started the game not overly great and got outshot by a fair margin through the 1st period, but above all else our compete level was right there with LA, in my opinion, and it showed by our physical game. We were engaged. Through the 2nd and 3rd we picked up our shots but maintained our strong, physical game. We pretty well took LA's brand of physicality, shoved it back in their faces and carried on about our business.

I loved our compete level and focus in that game. We were setting the tone. We did the same thing last season at the beginning (vs. Boston, I believe?) and you would think given the success we have when we play physical and engaged against these top teams that we could learn a lesson or two in bringing that approach on most nights, but, we don't. That is the difference between good teams and bad teams. What are you willing to do as a group to win? we have yet to show that aspect of consistency in our 3rd season to date.

We tend to always play up or down to our opponent depending on who it is. That is what I am finding most disappointing about this group.

I understand it's unrealistic to come out balls to the wall every, single game, but for the most part we should be able to do that, and apply what we did vs. LA a week ago. When we do that, we are one hell of a difficult team to beat. We can go toe-to-toe with ANY team in the league. We may not win, we may get outshot, but we can surely dance with them and hold our own.

 

[garret9]

The Wild are a completely different team than what they have been in the past. They actually have a pretty decent level of talent now and forecheck very aggressively. This year the dman are pinching in and taking a lot more chances than in years past.

Yeo also was open on the fact that they are trying to limit dump-ins only as when needed, trying to improve possession by carry-ins.

The numbers are really early and not conclusive, but their possession numbers are up a great deal from the last 2 seasons (although a lot of it is inflated by them **** kicking us).

 

[Guerzy]

Yeo also was open on the fact that they are trying to limit dump-ins only as when needed, trying to improve possession by carry-ins.

The numbers are really early and not conclusive, but their possession numbers are up a great deal from the last 2 seasons (although a lot of it is inflated by them **** kicking us).

Some coaches just baffle me with their little amount of care for puck possession. OHL coaches are AWFUL for it. An OHL team can have possession in their own end, are not being pressed or pressured, and they dump the puck down ice from center so they can make a line change. Why? why did you just give the puck away when after your line-change you're going to have to defend and try to gain possession again? It just baffles me.

Hold onto the puck, let the other 4 guys make their change, pass the puck up to the new line and go off for a change yourself.

I'll never understand it, but I see it every, single week. It pisses me off. .. The point of this game is to have possession of the puck. To try and score. Why are you giving the puck away only to then try and get it back?

I'd love to talk with a coach sometime and get their perspective, because it just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Howard Chuck]

I realize we are 2-2 and we have a ton of talented young players etc.....but I consistently get the feeling we are being being outcoached more than out worked. Today we got killed by the Wilds trapping yet we had this one man forecheck, with the D falling back. They were just walking freely into our zone while we couldnt get past center! You've got to make adjustments during a game and it looks like Noel just isn't grasping it.

Whats even worse is that I don't think he commands respect from the team.

Agree! The same with the Ducks game. We would shoot it in, send one forechecker in and everyone (4 players) would retreat to center ice??? Same as last night. We would have one half assed forechecker in their end, but when the Wild shot the puck in, they had at least 3 guys in like bullets taking advantage of our slow d, turning pucks over all the time.

Speaking of our D. Trouba is our only D who is quick enough to get the puck out of our end effectively, Buff, bogo, Slater, Clitsome and Enstrom seem to think that they have all the time in the world on a shoot in. They mostly have the opposing team's forwards on them when they reach the puck, then they try to make a decision. It's far too late by then. Enstrom thinks he can just dance around with the puck getting it out, but he simply can't, no one can with this type of heavy forechecking. No one simply backs up and lets you out of the zone (except the Jets lately). Clitsome and Stu are horrible and Bogo isn't much better lately. Trouba had so many beautiful, quick outlet passes and a great rush up the ice, around the net, drew everyone to him and passed it to Clitsome, who promptly turned it over.

Now to our forwards. What happened to offence that we had in Games 1 and 2? We had so much secondary scoring I was giddy with excitement! Now we have guys who are tentative and afraid of making mistakes. They seem to have had all of the wind taken out of their collective sails. Wheeler, Little, Kane, Scheifele, Seto, Frolic... we have a very fast team, but they seem like they've been hogtied the past two games.

Is it our 'system' (if we have one)? Are they told to stop playing run and gun? This is what happened last year. If we allowed two goals, we lost the game because we couldn't score. Now to start this year, we had great speed and offensive minded players and looked great, but what happened between then and now? Have the players been told that's not how the coach want's them to play? There has been a lot of discussion around playing a 200 ft game and being responsible, but what about occasionally going balls to the wall and scoring when you need to? We did it in the last minute, but that's about 59 minutes too late. You can see it on a drive to the O zone. Shoot it in and get back before they bring the puck out!!! The consequence is that you get 16 shots on goal all night.

Don't get me wrong, I love our Jets and I'm ecstatic to have a team to analyze, but we have too much talent to play this type of game. All of our fast guys should be able to forecheck and throw everything at the net.

/rant

 

[Howard Chuck]

The team looked really disjointed on 5 on 5. Im really starting to question our system play as either Noel doesn't cmumicate it properly or our players arnt listening. We look completely lost at times. I think he needs to let the players play with creativity the game plan is too predictable and too straight forward. Its chip it up the boards or dump and chase. This team needs to utize its speed through the NZ.

The vets also need to step up.

It's certainly possible to carry the puck in effectively, Trouba has little difficulty it seems. and if you're going to dump it in, you better send in more than one forechecker.

 

[Huffer]

Not much more needs to be said between the GDT and the PGT.

Really not happy with the effort from this team so far. Just lazy, uninspired play all around. No forwards are back-checking, and no one is winning board battles. No one is even skating out there. It's like the team wants to move up and down the ice like they're playing team handball. Can't skate with the puck, you have to stand still and try to hit someone with a pass or something.

Something as simple as giving and receiving passes is too difficult for this group so far. And everyone seems to think when they have the puck that they have all the time in the world to do something with it. It's like the Jets players are thinking the game at half speed.

Having trouble discerning what our offensive and defensive zone strategies are. Do the players all know the plan and are not executing, is everyone confused, or is there even a plan?

No one wants to lose, but if we're going to lose, at least lose with some passion. Throw the body, skate as hard as you can, etc. Last night looked like a bunch of guys that are starting to get ok with losses.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Bogo needs to be better for sure, but Noel and Huddy have to stop jerking him around. They play him RD, then LD, then RD, and for the past couple of games with Clitsome until Clitsome gets the hook. I think he played with four different D partners tonight. Noel needs to settle down his pairings.

The Jets killed all of the penalties tonight, but looked lousy doing it. They were lucky that the Wild didn't pop a couple of PP goals. Can someone please explain to me how one of the best PKers from last season on the 'Hawks can't crack the Jets' PK?

Wheeler and Ladd have been awful for most of the season so far.

I know what the stats say about FO wins and shots, but boy you could see how never winning a face-off influences the flow of the game. The Jets were chasing the puck constantly. Little 1/20 on the FO? Seriously?

Trouba was rock solid, and really the only Jet skater that looked like he knew what he was doing out there.

Pavs had another strong game. Too bad Clitsome took his stick away on the winning goal.

Yes, Noel needs to stop the juggling of everyone (hey we can't score, so lets send everyone out with people they don't normally play with???).

Trouba was our best Jet. 19 years old.

 

[sipowicz]

Yes, Noel needs to stop the juggling of everyone (hey we can't score, so lets send everyone out with people they don't normally play with???).

Trouba was our best Jet. 19 years old.

I think Noel juggles lines far too quickly when things aren't going well, his habit is trying to over coach the team out of bad spells, hasn't worked yet.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I think Noel juggles lines far too quickly when things aren't going well, his habit is trying to over coach the team out of bad spells, hasn't worked yet.

I think he was just trying to shake them up as they had nothing for the past 2 games.

Got to be frustrating as a coach to see your team come out and be so listless especially considering they had lively legs the first few games.

 

[King Woodballs]

Yes, Noel needs to stop the juggling of everyone (hey we can't score, so lets send everyone out with people they don't normally play with???).

Trouba was our best Jet. 19 years old.

And if it works these posts turn into Noel is a genius
And if he leaves it people complain about Noel not doing anything.
The coach is trying to do what he can with what he has.

 

[Darth Handsome*]

I wouldn't consider line juggling to be high end coaching. I'd rather him have the players be in a good position from time to time, and be willing to work when they get there.

 

[tbcwpg]

I don't think the system is horrible, it's not like it's rocket science or particularly new. It's a lack of effort, at least over the past couple of games. The system doesn't need an overhaul, the players need to work harder.

 

[Howard Chuck]

And if it works these posts turn into Noel is a genius
And if he leaves it people complain about Noel not doing anything.
The coach is trying to do what he can with what he has.

I am definitely not an NHL coach, but I'm a very interested fan who has the benefit of hindsight. I haven't complained much about the coaching in the previous years, but we certainly have the talent on our roster to be performing better than this. IMO anything that happens as a team is the coach's responsibility. If it's an individual's issue, then it's their issue. Right now seems to be a team issue. They are running around like chickens with their heads cut off, there seems to be no rhyme or reason to their game.

We had all of that time off to implement something, anything, but didn't. Even if it's simply lack of effort, then IMO it's up to the coach to bring that out of his team. None of this seems to be an individual problem, it's a team problem.

I'm moving slowly into the 'coaching is the problem' camp. I sincerely hope that I'm proven wrong.

 

[Howard Chuck]

I don't think the system is horrible, it's not like it's rocket science or particularly new. It's a lack of effort, at least over the past couple of games. The system doesn't need an overhaul, the players need to work harder.

Can anyone explain to me what our system consists of? I can't see it.

 

[Darth Handsome*]

Can anyone explain to me what our system consists of? I can't see it.

Considering the evidence, it doesn't appear as though the players do either.

 

[Channelcat]

And if it works these posts turn into Noel is a genius
And if he leaves it people complain about Noel not doing anything.
The coach is trying to do what he can with what he has.

Not as far as I'm concerned. We could win the next 78 games and Noel will still be a bad coach, just as he has been since the day we hired him. There is a large contingent who have been on the "fire Noel" bandwagon since the day he was hired....and that doesn't change with a few wins.

 

[tbcwpg]

Can anyone explain to me what our system consists of? I can't see it.

Well, as my admittedly amateur opinion sees it at least, that there is either a dump and chase or carry into the zone option, neither of which seems to be set in stone, as one line seems to carry it and one likes the dump option. I think that, despite there nothing being really set in stone, there isn't much effort being produced no matter the option. I don't think Noel is blameless here as there is a lack of cohesion or understanding of what he wants to do (whether that's him not explaining it very well or just not having a system, I don't know), but it is up to the players to at least put in the effort. There was too much coasting and stick swinging. That won't win against the big teams.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

Honestly, Hank, I'm going to tend to agree with you here.

I am all for giving people a chance, or chances, for that matter. I have a good amount of confidence in Cheveldayoff to this point given the circumstances and what he's trying to do, overall I like what I see. Not perfect, but I believe I have somewhat of an understanding of what he's intending on doing here so as far as the GM goes I feel fairly confident and comfortable in that area.

As for Noel, I like him but as I've said before, like any fan will do with pretty well every coach, I have my questions about him. I was (and am) all for Noel having this season, or at least until around Christmas depending on the results, to see what he can do with this roster. To me, this is a solid enough roster that there are very little excuses if we're not getting some positive results. And Noel's lame duck extension screams the words from the GM "this is my roster, you should be able to coach it to success", if not, Noel is likely, without question, gone.

Add in our huge amount of home games here to begin the year, and it will be very concerning if things don't fix themselves over this amount of time.

Right now, it's a new year, a new season, but it's still feeling the same and I'm just not sure what to think. Like you, Hank, it's crossed my mind over the beginning of the season here that perhaps Noel won't be the guy for the job here. I'm beginning to wonder if he simply is of no fit for this group. I've never said he "is" or "isn't", but I've always been open to seeing what he can do, just as I am with with the GM and players. I know it's early, and I don't like to jump the gun, but it's been a thought of mine that if things don't pick-up soon, some big questions will be raised in the direction of Noel.

You see other coaches step into teams and they endure success sooner than later, their "system" seems to fall in to place with relative ease. Why not here? why into year 3 are we still looking like a team trying to "learn the system", why do we still look quite awful defensively and why can this group not start a game like they want to win? Something just may not be of fit here. I think our roster is fine talent wise and our offseason additions appear to fit in well, Pavelec has been good... why does it feel the same? I'm thinking more like you here Hank, perhaps it is indeed beginning to point in a certain direction?

Good post, you've captured how I feel about Noel and this roster to a T.

We're already into season 3 with Noel at the helm, and this team lacks any sort of identity. There's no system or fundamentals that you can always count on always being there. You look at a team like LA, even when they're playing pretty marginal hockey (like they were in Winnipeg this past week), you know they're always going to be forechecking hard and creating turnovers. Even as you go further down the list in terms of team quality, you can look at a team like the Isles. They're always going to be playing fast with speed through the neutral zone, trying to burn teams with their transition game.

What can you count on the Jets doing exceptionally well on any given night, regardless of how the team is playing? Collapsing in their own end? Committing soft turnovers all over the rink?

Having no true systems or identity is excusable for a team in transition, but this is year three with the same coach and same core. Who knows, maybe it will click. Maybe we'll see the team that played fast and physical vs. the Kings on a consistent basis, and these last two games will be a blip on the radar. As I said though, each ****** performance like the one we saw last night makes me less and less convinced that Noel is the right man for the job here.