Blue Jays Discussion: No More AA, Everyone is very Sad (and by Sad, I mean Mad)

[Woodman19]

I hated it but it was fait accompli

 

[Canada4Gold]

I absolutely hated it back then too. Hell, I already thought D'Arnaud was too much, but losing Noah as well really made me mad, even as raw as he was.

I thought D'Arnaud for Dickey straight up was fair, adding Syndergaard was stupid.

What most people don't realize was there was a 3rd really young prospect in that deal, and he's now 21 and the Mets 12th best prospect according to MLB.com, the trade that keeps on giving.

 

[mikebel111*]

Well at least we don't have to hear how amazing Noah is at least not do far in this game

 

[theaub]

Trading for Josh Donaldson is a move that gets GM's hired for decades so it evens out

Admittedly I did not hate the trade at the time but you can probably figure that out based on my posts from the past couple of days

 

[Canada4Gold]

Musgrove is still a prospect. Showcased incredible control this year and his fastball is hitting mid 90s.

didn't realize that, he was taking forever to even get to full season ball, I had assumed he wouldn't ever become anything. Like Norris was considered slow to get going as a pro and he was drafted the same year as Norris and was basically 2 years slower than Norris.

 

[Woodman19]

I recall most were upset with losing D'Arnaud and not Syndergaard due to Arencibia and the teams depth in pitching on the farm.

 

[Epictetus]

Trading for Josh Donaldson is a move that gets GM's hired for decades so it evens out

Apparently not

I hated it too at the time, so no it's not only hindsight, but a lot of people here who complain had no idea who Syndergaard was at the time. They weren't here complaining because we traded a great prospect. Syndergaard turned into something so now they think it was stupid.

I think a large factor is what R.A. Dickey is, so not only what Sydergaard has done. If the trade was for an ace (e.g., like a Halladay-to-Philly), it would be more understandable. The prospect capital we gave up could have gotten a return like that, thus making the trade more understandable. I'm sure everyone knew Dickey would regress. So why such a package of quality prospects?

The knowledgeable people who hated the trade at the time for valid reasons aren't the ones who complain about it all the time, they've let it go. I wish everyone would.

Unfortunately, it will only get worse the better Syndergaard gets.

I recall most were upset with losing D'Arnaud and not Syndergaard due to Arencibia and the teams depth in pitching on the farm.

This is also a really good point.

 

[trellaine201]

So happy the mets are lighting up the royals tonight.

 

[theaub]

I recall most were upset with losing D'Arnaud and not Syndergaard due to Arencibia and the teams depth in pitching on the farm.

I went back to the discussion threads which are just like pages of posts of me lol'ing people posting rumours that it would be D'Arnaud and Syndergaard

Apparently I wasn't a fan of the trade though. I also wanted Brandon Morrow to start opening night so my opinion on anything from then should just be taken as stupid.

 

[Canada4Gold]

I recall most were upset with losing D'Arnaud and not Syndergaard due to Arencibia and the teams depth in pitching on the farm.

I think that's a fair point. D'Arnaud was our top ranked prospect at the time while Syndergaard was #2 I think.

Which makes the complaining all the more stupid since there's not that much complaining about D'Arnaud anymore but Syndergaard because Sydnergaard looks to be more valuable than D'Arnaud right now.

I thought D'Arnaud was fair. I liked D'Arnaud more than Thor at the time but I understood you had to give to get so I was ok parting with just D'Arnaud(would have been ok parting with just Syndergaard too based on that train of thought), but once you added in another top prospect then that was too much.

 

[Woodman19]

I went back to the discussion threads which are just like pages of posts of me lol'ing people posting rumours that it would be D'Arnaud and Syndergaard

Apparently I wasn't a fan of the trade though. I also wanted Brandon Morrow to start opening night so my opinion on anything from then should just be taken as stupid.

Find me someone who liked it

 

[Woodman19]

I think that's a fair point. D'Arnaud was our top ranked prospect at the time while Syndergaard was #2 I think.

Which makes the complaining all the more stupid since there's not that much complaining about D'Arnaud anymore but Syndergaard because Sydnergaard looks to be more valuable than D'Arnaud right now.

I thought D'Arnaud was fair. I liked D'Arnaud more than Thor at the time but I understood you had to give to get so I was ok parting with just D'Arnaud(would have been ok parting with just Syndergaard too based on that train of thought), but once you added in another top prospect then that was too much.

That's what drives me nuts abut the complaining. It's the obvious captain hindsight of it.

 

[theaub]

Honestly all I remember of that trade was my friend who used to work in the front office telling me 'if we give up D'Arnaud there is no way we'll give up any of the big pitching prospects'

Damn useless bad inside info

 

[theaub]

Find me someone who liked it

There's more than a few still-regular posters who liked it but hell if I'm going to start quoting people considering I've been wrong about so much on here

The part that makes me confused is that everyone still looks at it in a still picture. The Dickey trade was such a franchise altering trade that if it never happens, there's so many different ways everything goes.

 

[Bomber0104]

That's what drives me nuts abut the complaining. It's the obvious captain hindsight of it.

Completely unfair.

People who complain against populist moves (especially trades that benefit a team now vs. hinder them in the future) are often ostracized and shut down at the time the trade happens.

Because who can definitively prove that those two or three future prospects can deliver in an MLB game when they aren't at that level yet?

We live in an instant gratification society.

Sports fans are a perfect example of this.

 

[theaub]

The Dickey trade was the opposite of a populist move

 

[Bomber0104]

The Dickey trade was the opposite of a populist move

I don't believe that is the case.

People who understand prospects and the minor league systems...perhaps not.

But those are very few, and that percentage of the fanbase represents a very small few.

My point stands.

 

[theaub]

You point doesn't stand though, especially on this board which does nothing short of build large statues devoted to 7.5 B prospects.

If you polled 100 people in the December 2012 Jays topics as to who they would have rather traded between D'Arnaud and Syndergaard, at least 90 would have said the latter. The fact that everyone primarily bemoans losing him and not D'Arnaud is pure hindsight valuation (arguing over the loss of both is entirely valid but isn't populist since the entirety of said topics are full of people doing it).

 

[Lightsol]

I think that's a fair point. D'Arnaud was our top ranked prospect at the time while Syndergaard was #2 I think.

Which makes the complaining all the more stupid since there's not that much complaining about D'Arnaud anymore but Syndergaard because Sydnergaard looks to be more valuable than D'Arnaud right now.

I thought D'Arnaud was fair. I liked D'Arnaud more than Thor at the time but I understood you had to give to get so I was ok parting with just D'Arnaud(would have been ok parting with just Syndergaard too based on that train of thought), but once you added in another top prospect then that was too much.

Thor was ranked #4 in the Jays system when he was traded with D'Arnaud. I mainly remember because people were trying to figure out how the Jays traded three of their top 5 prospects (#1, #4, #5) in one offseason.

IIRC, Stroman was #2 at the time. And Sanchez was #6 or #7.

 

[Bomber0104]

You point doesn't stand though, especially on this board which does nothing short of build large statues devoted to 7.5 B prospects.

If you polled 100 people in the December 2012 Jays topics as to who they would have rather traded between D'Arnaud and Syndergaard, at least 90 would have said the latter. The fact that everyone primarily bemoans losing him and not D'Arnaud is pure hindsight valuation (arguing over the loss of both isn't populist since the entirety of said topics are full of people doing it).

People who post on a Blue Jays thread with a heavy slant towards Sabremetrics on a Toronto Maple Leafs forum don't represent the Blue Jays fanbase in the slightest.

You are very, very, very small percentage of the fanbase and a very "niche" one at that.

If statistics are your thing then certainly you can appreciate this simple fact.

 

[theaub]

Fangraphs top 15 had:

1) D'Arnaud
2) Sanchez
3) Syndergaard
4) Osuna
5) Nicolino
6) Marisnick

So the Jays traded 1/3/5/6 and 10 (Hech) in one offseason. Makes this year look tame by comparison tbh

 

[theaub]

People who post on a Blue Jays thread with a heavy slant towards Sabremetrics on a Toronto Maple Leafs forum don't represent the Blue Jays fanbase in the slightest.

You are very, very, very small percentage of the fanbase and a very "niche" one at that.

If statistics are your thing then certainly you can appreciate this simple fact.

I agree with you that the general average moron on the street doesn't care about trading prospects, but I'm not sure what that has to do with complaining about the hindsight analysis in this topic

 

[Bomber0104]

Fangraphs top 15 had:

1) D'Arnaud
2) Sanchez
3) Syndergaard
4) Osuna
5) Nicolino
6) Marisnick

So the Jays traded 1/3/5/6 and 10 (Hech) in one offseason. Makes this year look tame by comparison tbh

That doesn't do anything to support your argument that there was any sort of fan backlash against the Dickey trade, outside of a very small demographic of Jays fans.

That just proves top prospects were traded.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Thor was ranked #4 in the Jays system when he was traded with D'Arnaud. I mainly remember because people were trying to figure out how the Jays traded three of their top 5 prospects (#1, #4, #5) in one offseason.

IIRC, Stroman was #2 at the time. And Sanchez was #6 or #7.

do you have a source? here are the fangraphs rankings at the time from November 5th, 2012, 1 month, 12 days before the trade.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/toronto-blue-jays-top-15-prospects-2012-13/

Sanchez #2, Syndergaard is #3, Stroman #12. I'm aware that different places rank prospects differently, my memory was from mlb.com which I haven't been able to find from back then. But I have a hard time believing someone has Stroman #2 when fangraphs had him #12. He was just drafted, the thought was he might be a reliever due to his height, and had just tested positive for a banned substance while the Jays had the highly regarded Lansing 3, I don't see how anyone had him #2.

 

[theaub]

That doesn't do anything to support your argument that there was any sort of fan backlash against the Dickey trade, outside of a very small demographic of Jays fans.

That just proves top prospects were traded.

Uh cool? That had nothing to do with your posts.