Blue Jays Discussion: No More AA, Everyone is very Sad (and by Sad, I mean Mad)

[Clark4Ever]

Hindsight is 20/20, and while it definitely stings watching Syndergaard and D'Arnaud play key roles for the Mets in the World Series, AA came out on the winning end of the majority of his deals.

 

[GoonieFace]

AA made some great moves....signing EE and JB to steals of a contract, acquiring Donaldson and Tulo, Lind for Estrada,....but that is going to be overshadowed by the Dickey trade and David Price if Norris and/or Boyd turn out and Price walks. That Dickey trade was cringe worthy to begin with and now is hide in a hole and bury yourself worthy.

Personally I believe Shapiro is going to put the team into rebuild mode or at least partial rebuild by trading guys like EE and JB and maybe even Tulo.

The Price trade was good whether he walks or not. I dont think anyone was a fan of the Dickey trade, but at the time they thought it would put them over the top, so you have to give to get. The good thing is that AA was bold and made some great moves to put this team into contention, lets hope Shapiro sees it through for next season.

 

[Clark4Ever]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/rogers-anthopouloss-job-would-have-been-the-same-under-shapiro/

so more to the story. looks like rogers did everything possible to keep AA. Doubt they would lie. I wonder why AA left. I am thinking there is a job lined up shortly for him.

This is why I think that it shouldn't be viewed as a Shapiro issue. I honestly think that the dye was cast in AA's mind before Shapiro was even hired. It's 100% because of AA's feelings towards ownership, and I hope that the media and the fan base are willing to cut Shapiro some slack moving forward. He's innocent in all of this.

 

[hoglund]

But you can't ignore the bad choices he's made . He's done both great moves and bad ones like a lot of GM's but people overreact and treat him as a God and I wonder if its purely because he's Canadian. People ignore just how this season played out, they weren't in a playoff spot at the All-Star break, they were under .500 , they were only 1 game above .500 at the trade deadline and it took a pretty big collapse from the Yankees for the Jays to even be in the playoffs. That's not to downplay the Jays efforts or the trades he made but it was clear that this team wasn't playoff ready . He took a long time to fill in gaps and some of those gaps haven't even been filled in yet either. He held onto Arrencibia and Rasmus for far too long and the Jays were stuck without a 2B for a long time ,not to mention he walked into Bautista and Encarnacion .

Now don't get me wrong, I'm happy that the Jays made the playoffs and even with the moves he made for the most part. It's great he brought in Donaldson, Tulo and Travis that's a great looking infield , Pilar exceeded expectations but the Jays still have no pitching and that's been a problem for the past few years now . During his time here he traded away far too many prospects , especially when this team clearly wasn't ready to make the playoffs then went in big this season when this team wasn't really a world series contender

I would have liked him to stay but it isn't the end of the world that he's gone

Those trades didn't really make the difference, the Blue Jays were already a good team that was underachieving (their record was a lot worse than they were due to 1 run losses), Tulo and Price were good additions, but weren't the reason for making the playoffs. The collapse of the Yankees helped the Jays win the division, but even without the Yankees collapse, the Jays were going to make the post season with a wild card.

 

[deletethis]

The real story still seems unclear. Surely Rogers must have been fully on board with AA's attempts to expedite contention that happened first 3 years ago and then again last winter. I think it's long forgotten the growing ill will towards the Jays after that failed 2012 season with its misbehaving players (Escobar and Lawrie) or talented young players who just didn't seem interested in breaking their bad habits (Arencibia, Rasmus, Romero) or manager who seemed to quit the team before the season ended (Farrell). AA had reversed an impending plummet in attendance and television ratings. Surely Rogers mustn't have forgotten.

My guess is that AA has grown tired of a mixed message from his bosses at Rogers. They want to win now but they also want to do it cost-effectively. They love the buzz around the team after it was fortified but they don't like the revelation of the loss of future stars later on. My guess is that AA turned down Rogers' offer of an extension because he knows that he was unlikely to build his personal baseball management capital any higher here. He would have been in a position to be fired in the future. And he knows a similar offer awaits him elsewhere in a less conflicted environment.

 

[Habaneros]

Blue Jays president Mark Shapiro:"Winning Isn't Everything"

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=8671

Shapiro told the emailer that if their only reason for purchasing was to see the Indians win, “Don’t come.â€

No business owner, or executive, should ever approach telling their customers to stay away. The Indians certainly can’t afford that dismissive attitude given their dismal home attendance last season.

Shapiro, when contacted yesterday, clarified his stance, but largely defended his comment to the disgruntled season-ticket holder.

“I told him if the sole reason, the only reason, for renewing is predicated on us winning, then they shouldn’t come,†Shapiro said. “I stand by that. Baseball has to mean more than just being a fan when you win.

 

[Muston Atthews]

That click bait

 

[Suntouchable13]

Those trades didn't really make the difference, the Blue Jays were already a good team that was underachieving (their record was a lot worse than they were due to 1 run losses), Tulo and Price were good additions, but weren't the reason for making the playoffs. The collapse of the Yankees helped the Jays win the division, but even without the Yankees collapse, the Jays were going to make the post season with a wild card.

Yankees collapse? That's not giving the Jays any credit. The Jays won the division by 6 games! Yankees never collapsed, the Jays were the superior team all the way. The Jays had the best record in the AL, by far, after the deadline. Them winning the division had nothing to do with the Yankees collapsing (the Yankees did not collapse). The Jays blew right by them. Are you saying that Yankees team should have won more than 93 games? LOL!

 

[deletethis]

Another thing that should be noted is the corporate intrigue and drama that have surrounded Paul Beeston over the years. In the press he is portrayed as a jovial sort but he was in charge of Jays when baseball savant Pat Gillick was ousted through an unwanted promotion as Beeston pushed in his own star pupil Gord Ash.

 

[JS19]

none of what you just said has anything to do with what I just said.

You said that Rogers brought him here to cut payroll when the window closes. The window isn't closing after next year, there's still lots of good young players here, the farm is still decent, even if Jose and/or EE leave, there's still plenty to be competing for the next 3 or 4 years at least.

Look at Philadelphia, that's a closed window, it was closed for a couple years, yet they didn't sell off their assets until this past deadline. Once you get to the point where your window is closed then it makes a lot of sense to operate on a low budget while you rebuild the farm, and then eventually start competing again.

But that has nothing to do with the decisions to be made here with the Jays in the next 2 to 3 years. The window isn't closed, if someone decides to cut payroll now, or after 2016 or after 2017, that's not cutting payroll when your window is closed like you were inferring. That would be Rogers being cheap when we could still compete, which is completely different from "the Jays hired Shapiro to slash budget costs when the Jays window closes"

Bad wording on my part. That's what I get for being incoherent in the AM

Those trades didn't really make the difference, the Blue Jays were already a good team that was underachieving (their record was a lot worse than they were due to 1 run losses), Tulo and Price were good additions, but weren't the reason for making the playoffs. The collapse of the Yankees helped the Jays win the division, but even without the Yankees collapse, the Jays were going to make the post season with a wild card.

The collapse of the Yankees helped the Jays win? Tulo and Price were good additions but didn't help/weren't the reason for making the playoffs? You've got to be kidding me. Before the trades we had a meh rotation, and a crappy shortstop on a bad contract. Tulo having chemistry with Goins resulted in some downright beautiful defensive plays that helped win games, and Price coming helped win games to catch up to the Yankees and solidified the rotation before Stroman came back. The Jays was 51-52 by trading deadline, but Tulo and Price didn't help? It's not that the Yankees collapsed (they have a crappy team), it was a combination of the Jays being the superior team and the AL East being blown open.

 

[Woodman19]

I did a quick update this morning with the Jays salary structure now and in the future in a fairly easy to follow chart.

Bolded figures are projected Arbitration Totals.

Let me know if I am missing something.

 

[theaub]

Looks right to me - I've been backing out Revere, Saunders and Thole to get me to $43.5M needing a LF, C, 2 SP and 3 RP

 

[p.l.f.]

You made that chart yourself?
Good work if so

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

Hindsight is 20/20, and while it definitely stings watching Syndergaard and D'Arnaud play key roles for the Mets in the World Series, AA came out on the winning end of the majority of his deals.

People need to realize not everyone liked the deal at the time and some actually had foresight into it being a bad trade from the outset. I can't stand when certain posters vomit puerile drivel, assuming everyone says things in hindsight because they themselves liked a deal when it happened, so if they liked it, it must be that everyone liked it. Nonsense.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Hahah Syndergaard did exactly what you should do against a guy that swings at every first pitch

Ohhhh the irony

http://espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2015...newyork-mets-first-pitch-alcides-escobar-head

Syndergaard sent Alcides Escobar sprawling with a high, 98 mph fastball in the vicinity of the Kansas City shortstop's head to lead off the first inning.

"He said yesterday that he had a plan against my aggressiveness. If that was the plan, it's a stupid plan. No pitcher should throw a 98 mph pitch at the head of a batter in the first at-bat. If he wants to, he can throw it at my feet. He can throw it at any part of my body -- but not at my head. That's just wrong."

Wonder what your buddy Volquez thinks of this Escobar

Karma you pieces of ****

Even sweeter that it was Thor who did it

 

[pspot]

It's well know that you don't market /sell sports on winning

 

[Schenn]

I did a quick update this morning with the Jays salary structure now and in the future in a fairly easy to follow chart.

Bolded figures are projected Arbitration Totals.

Let me know if I am missing something.

Unreal. I would love to see this exact chart but from the day AA took over as GM 6 years ago, so people could truly appreciate what he has done with the roster.

 

[Neil Hamburger]

It's well know that you don't market /sell sports on winning

The Toronto Maple Leafs: A Case Study

 

[teeder333*]

If they don't raise the ante for spending then be prepared to observe this Shapiro character start trading the big three for prospects. Bank on it.

I happen to know that the brass at Roger's see a hailstorm of a bad economy coming next year and want to batten down the hatches.

Look for Cleveland Indians, part two here.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Complain about the Jays pitching all you want.
The hitters didn't get the job done.
That's the main reason we lost.

It was the Jays World Series to lose.
And they did.

I also fault Gibbons for coasting the end of the season and letting the Royals take home field advantage off the Jays.

 

[hoglund]

Yankees collapse? That's not giving the Jays any credit. The Jays won the division by 6 games! Yankees never collapsed, the Jays were the superior team all the way. The Jays had the best record in the AL, by far, after the deadline. Them winning the division had nothing to do with the Yankees collapsing (the Yankees did not collapse). The Jays blew right by them. Are you saying that Yankees team should have won more than 93 games? LOL!

you're right, but the Yankees last 2 months were very average at best. Casual fans and even some media seem to think the Jays were only good for the last 2 months, they were good the WHOLE year, their record was average, but they massively outscored everyone, so that record was very misleading, it was the last 2 months where the laws of math came through and they started winning those close games, they still had a losing record in 1 run games, but they did do better and had a bit more luck in the latter part of the season that they weren't getting at the beginning.

 

[King Mapes]

Complain about the Jays pitching all you want.
The hitters didn't get the job done.
That's the main reason we lost.

It was the Jays World Series to lose.
And they did.

I also fault Gibbons for coasting the end of the season and letting the Royals take home field advantage off the Jays.

Exactly. And our bullpen. We simply got outplayed and lost to a team who wanted it more. No excuses.

 

[theaub]

If they don't raise the ante for spending then be prepared to observe this Shapiro character start trading the big three for prospects. Bank on it.

I happen to know that the brass at Roger's see a hailstorm of a bad economy coming next year and want to batten down the hatches.

Look for Cleveland Indians, part two here.

Do you happen to know how 10/5 rights work?

 

[Gabriel426]

Those trades didn't really make the difference, the Blue Jays were already a good team that was underachieving (their record was a lot worse than they were due to 1 run losses), Tulo and Price were good additions, but weren't the reason for making the playoffs. The collapse of the Yankees helped the Jays win the division, but even without the Yankees collapse, the Jays were going to make the post season with a wild card.

How did Yankees collapsed? And what's make u so sure Jays is a Wild award team without Price, Tulo, Lowe, Hawkins and Revere? Did you remember all the errors Reyes made at Short, and how Hutch and. Mark Struggles toward the end of the season. Jays might be a Wild card team at the end without those new guys, but I doubt they could past The first round.

 

[Gabriel426]

It's well know that you don't market /sell sports on winning

U do that with tanking for a Generational talent.