Blue Jays Discussion: No More AA, Everyone is very Sad (and by Sad, I mean Mad)

[LaCarriere]

Jays paid a TON for Tulo in giving up Hoffman. However they have Tulo for a few more years so I think most baseballers can live with that trade off.

The one that bites is Price for Norris. Only works for me if Rogers steps up and pays the ticket for Price. Only Rogers knows whether they will bid the top ticket. If they do then trade was AMAZING. If they let Price go to a higher offer than that trade sucked. 10-15 starts from Price nowhere good enough for Norris. There is no lefty in org coming up in next 3 years with mlb front of rotation stuff.

So now only chance for new guy to stay at top of east is to resign Price. So that has to be his recommendation and then does Rogers take the gamble on a 250M 7 year deal which will look bad in 4 years time.

I really doubt Norris will ever be ace material, more like mid rotation guy.

You can't judge the price trade on the basis of if they resign him or not, especially now that the guy who traded for him isn't even here anymore. maybe AA would have made 7/210 work and pushed hard for Price, but Shapiro won't offer that. bottom line is Price was a rental - that was pretty much 95% written in stone.

Im almost opposite of you. Tulo had a terrible year offensively, and could be 2-3 years behind Reyes' progression. When he's 34-36 and making 20 million he might not look a whole lot better than Reyes this year. just bought ourselves a couple years at SS at the cost of prospects

 

[Woodman19]

Alright, before this spins out of control, here are the prospects traded by AA at the deadline along with their future values:

- Hoffman (55 fv)
- Norris (55 fv)
- Labourt (50 fv)
- Castro (50 fv)
- Boyd (45 fv)
- Tirado (45 fv)
- Tinoco (45 fv)
- Brentz (40 fv)
- Wells (40 fv)
- Cordero (35 fv)
- rasmussen (35 fv)

No 60+ prospects. 2 very good prospects, 2 good prospects, 7 extremely (easily) replaceable prospects.

You should also include what remains in the system to ease people.

 

[Eyedea]

There are only a handful of guys in baseball anywhere who have a live arm who can reach 100 with dip and Hoffman is one. He also he one of best curves in the business. He only needs to learn how to pitch with his 86-90 breaking ball. At 6ft 4 he does it consistently for 6 innings. He is a lot closer than you might think. He will be the 5 man for rockies next season. And he could shoot up to a #1 very quickly. He has more upside than Syndergaard same type of fastball but Noah doe snot have the lethal curve.

I think the whole myth of Syndergaard not having offspeed pitches is bunk now.

But it’s the breaking ball that has the nickname, and rightfully so. Only the curveballs thrown by Jose Fernandez, Trevor Bauer, Clayton Kershaw, Yordano Ventura, and Cole Hamels have been thrown anywhere near as often (200 minimum) and had a better whiff rate than Syndergaard’s 18%. The tall Met has actually thrown it 386 times so far this year, and if you move the minimum up to 300, only Ventura and Kershaw beat him.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-evolution-of-thors-hammers/

 

[Discoverer]

Eeeeeeeego

Can you really blame a guy for wanting out after dedicating the last 6 years of his life to building this team, only to come agonizingly close and be told "Oh, by the way, you're not really in charge anymore"?

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

You should also include what remains in the system to ease people.

In the org, 25 or under:
- Stroman (65)
- Hutchison (55)
- Sanchez (55)
- Travis (55)
- Alford (55)
- Pompey (50)
- Greene (50)
- Max Power (50)
- Osuna (50)
- Jon Harris (50)
- SRF (45)
- Nay (45)
- Borucki (45)
- Smith Jr (45)
- Hollon (45)
- Urena (45)
- Tellez (45)
- Sugar Shane Dawson (45)
- Jansen (40)

 

[Muston Atthews]

Can you really blame a guy for wanting out after dedicating the last 6 years of his life to building this team, only to come agonizingly close and be told "Oh, by the way, you're not really in charge anymore"?

He would have still been in charge, like he was with Beeston. He obviously wasn't willing to work with Shapiro for reasons that we will probably never find out.

 

[Discoverer]

In the org, 25 or under:
- Stroman (65)
- Hutchison (55)
- Sanchez (55)
- Travis (55)
- Alford (55)
- Pompey (50)
- Greene (50)
- Max Power (50)
- Osuna (50)
- Jon Harris (50)
- SRF (45)
- Nay (45)
- Borucki (45)
- Smith Jr (45)
- Hollon (45)
- Urena (45)
- Tellez (45)
- Sugar Shane Dawson (45)
- Jansen (40)

And that Vlad guy.

 

[Discoverer]

He would have still been in charge, like he was with Beeston. He obviously wasn't willing to work with Shapiro for reasons that we will probably never find out.

He wouldn't have been in charge. He would have had to run every decision by Shapiro. Beeston wasn't involved in the baseball side of things. AA made those decisions on his own and reported to Beeston if there were financial issues.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

And that Vlad guy.

Not included in my org chart until he plays an inning of pro ball.

But indeed you are correct. I believe he's currently listed as a 45 fv.

 

[Discoverer]

Not included in my org chart until he plays an inning of pro ball.

But indeed you are correct. I believe he's currently listed as a 45 fv.

I assumed that was why, I just think the future of the organization is bright right now, so I wanted to point it out haha

 

[Shimso]

In the org, 25 or under:
- Stroman (65)
- Hutchison (55)
- Sanchez (55)
- Travis (55)
- Alford (55)
- Pompey (50)
- Greene (50)
- Max Power (50)
- Osuna (50)
- Jon Harris (50)
- SRF (45)
- Nay (45)
- Borucki (45)
- Smith Jr (45)
- Hollon (45)
- Urena (45)
- Tellez (45)
- Sugar Shane Dawson (45)
- Jansen (40)

Admittedly, I don't really know how these numbers are compiled, but I would've thought Osuna would be much higher and Pompey lower....and Stroman not on the list due to IMO not being a "prospect" but rather a legit player.

 

[Muston Atthews]

He wouldn't have been in charge. He would have had to run every decision by Shapiro. Beeston wasn't involved in the baseball side of things. AA made those decisions on his own and reported to Beeston if there were financial issues.

Anthopolous had to run any big moves by Beeston, that's a fact. He would have had to do the same thing with Shapiro, that's also a fact. The only thing that would have changed is the small deals. I seriously have a hard time seeing Shapiro stepping all over Alex's toes after offering him a long term deal.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Admittedly, I don't really know how these numbers are compiled, but I would've thought Osuna would be much higher and Pompey lower....and Stroman not on the list due to IMO not being a "prospect" but rather a legit player.

25 or under. That's how I track them. Don't care about rookie status or other crap. Also, like to remind people how young some of these guys are (Hutch, for example).

As for how they are compiled, it's a grading scale from 20-80. Each tool is broken down. As for your question, the two young players are designated as so:

Pompey: 50 hit, 40 power, 60 speed, 60 field, 45 throw (50 FV)

Osuna: 60 fastball (55 as starter), 55 slider, 55 change up, 60 cutter, 45 command (50-55 fv)

Admittedly, Roberto is weird because his stuff played better out of the pen. While the grades would be higher, he'd lose points because he was a reliever rather than a starter (catch 22). If his stuff held as a starter, he's an easy 55 fv. But that's the question.

 

[Canada4Gold]

The whole AA traded the entire farm at the deadline thing needs to stop. It's not even close to true. This was our top prospects(based on mlb.com) back before the season started. It was a top 10 farm.

1. Norris
2. Pompey
3. Sanchez
4. Hoffman
5. Pentecost
6. Osuna
7. Castro
8. SRF
9. Travis
10. Urena

ok? Here's the list now

1. Harris
2. Alford
3. SRF
4. Pentecost
5. Vlad Jr.
6. Urena
7. Tellez
8. Greene
9. Nay
10. Borucki

Here's what happened. We traded our 1st, 4th, and 7th best prospects. That hurts a little but do you know what hurts the ranking more? Our 2nd, 3rd, 6th, and 9th best prospects graduating to the big leagues. That's a bigger reason why our pool is weak. Yes we traded some great guys away, but when you hear we traded away 11 pitchers, 7 of them were basically nothing(Boyd being the other who impressed this year but wasn't on the initial top 10), they could have developed into something maybe, but as of right now they were nothing, like the other nothings we have lying around down in the GCL or Bluefield, etc.

Now lets look at who was added to the rankings.

Harris - drafted this year

Alford - he was in the low teens iirc, just coming to baseball after giving up football, he wasn't much of anything until a breakout year this year

Vlad Jr. - signed

Tellez - just outside that original top 10 at the start of the year, kept on a nice trajectory, proved he can hit in full season ball in Lansing and Dunedin

Greene - was one of those nothing guys until a fantastic season this season turned him into something, where have we heard this story before

the other 2 aren't that great yet so I'll say they there because of the holes opened up by outflux of prospects. Either by trade or to the majors.

Boyd also had a great season with NH and Buffalo, which put him into a good ranking before he was traded away.

So the point is that we had 4 guys we traded away(Norris, Hoffman, Castro, Boyd), 4 guys that graduated(Sanchez, Pompey, Osuna, Travis), and we had 6 guys added by the draft or by great seasons guys(Harris, Alford, Vlad Jr, Tellez, Greene, Boyd)

So basically had we not graduated those 4 guys we would have had 4 guys leave via trades, and 6 guys added based on drafts/good seasons, our top prospects farm would be 2 players bigger than it was to start the year. Without graduating the 4 guys we did we could possibly still have a top 10 farm with the guys traded like Hoffman, Norris, and Castro replaced by Harris, Alford, Vlad Jr, Tellez, and Greene, seems like a pretty even trade off. So it wasn't the trades alone.

Hollon also had a good season before he was suspended for banned substances, and Maese was drafted in the 2nd round and absolutely dominated the GCL so there' potential for those guys to be added to that list of guys jumping up very shortly imo.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Regardless, sorry for derailing the riveting discussion with prospect porn....just saw the garbage regarding blue chips dealt for nothing, and empty farm systems and decided to answer with beautiful, sexy baseball rather than the snarky. Carry on.

 

[deletethis]

Regardless, sorry for derailing the riveting discussion with prospect porn....just saw the garbage regarding blue chips dealt for nothing, and empty farm systems and decided to answer with beautiful, sexy baseball rather than the snarky. Carry on.

Wonderful appeal to authority there. Do tell us all how fantastic the Jays' 2016 starting staff is going be.

 

[Woodman19]

Jays apparently have set a $140 million budget on payroll for this year. a $10 million increase on last year.

 

[PJJ]

Rogers payroll staying the same next season, may be a big reason why AA left

 

[Loosie]

Wait...we actually have a prospect named Max Power? That's awesome!

 

[one77]

Jays apparently have set a $140 million budget on payroll for this year. a $10 million increase on last year.

Does this mean we have the room to sign Price+Estrada+Davis/Heyward? Or is it quite the opposite?

 

[Eyedea]

Seems like there's always two sides to Pompey's future value.

He's a first division, 5 tool guy in my books. Power plays up significantly in the dome and his arm is at least average in CF. Bat speed gives him the potential of improving his overall hit tool as well which could push his future value even further.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Jays apparently have set a $140 million budget on payroll for this year. a $10 million increase on last year.

Likely a provision built in for the FX expense. So, essentially flat.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Wait...we actually have a prospect named Max Power? That's awesome!

Max pentecost, I'd assume that's DJQ's nickname for him

 

[deletethis]

Jays apparently have set a $140 million budget on payroll for this year. a $10 million increase on last year.

$71 million for Tulo, Martin, Dickey, Bautista and Encarnacion.

 

[Eyedea]

Wait...we actually have a prospect named Max Power? That's awesome!

No it's Max Pentecost but the Simpsons references flow strongly here