Blue Jays Discussion: No longer the off-season. It's time for real baseball

[canucksfan]

Just finished off an 8-pitch 5th inning (all strikes) with a pair of Ks.

Now 1 BB and 7 Ks today... 48 strikes and just 17 balls, all while touching 98 and sitting 95-97.

That seems like a much, much different Robbie Ray than normal.

Reading on Twitter, a lot of swings and misses too. If he pitches like this in the season, he is borderline #1 and at least a solid #2.

 

[BlueForever75]

Ray is looking like the real deal. How great would it be if he pitched this way in the regular season?

He and Ryu together may give us a great tandem.

Matz has looked all that bad either.

 

[canucksfan]

 

[TopChedder]

Kirk is an absolute machine. This guy reminds me of a Gywen or Puckett. He just keeps hitting and hitting.

They will talk about the legend of Cap Kirk someday lol

 

[phillipmike]

 

[BlueForever75]

Kirk is an absolute machine. This guy reminds me of a Gywen or Puckett. He just keeps hitting and hitting.

They will talk about the legend of Cap Kirk someday lol

Problem is that Jansen is having a good spring thus far. Seeing the ball better so far and making hard contact every at bat.

 

[Starry Knight]

With the way Kirk has hit, it’s nearly impossible to rationalize not having him as the starting catcher. His offensive value is absurd.

 

[Discoverer]

David Phelps - 5 IP, 0 H, 0 BB, 10 K

Lots of really nice spring performances so far.

 

[Scion]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the shift... I think what people don't like is that hitters, for the most part, are unwilling to adjust to it. And, since no one can force hitters to go the other way or bunt against the shift, the proposed solution is to get rid of the shift altogether and allow hitters to avoid evolving.

I see this all the time, and it's just not true. It's not that hitters are unwilling to adjust, it's just that it is really f***ing hard to hit the ball in general much less try and adjust your swing pattern and timing to push the ball in a particular direction.

 

[Discoverer]

I see this all the time, and it's just not true. It's not that hitters are unwilling to adjust, it's just that it is really f***ing hard to hit the ball in general much less try and adjust your swing pattern and timing to push the ball in a particular direction.

I'm not suggesting it's as simple as just stepping to the plate and slapping the ball the other way, but if hitters believe they are being negatively impacted by the shift, then there should be at least some leaguewide movement away from a pull-centric approach. It can take time for these things to happen, so maybe it's more that hitters haven't adjusted yet. But so far the rate of groundballs pulled into the shift is increasing over the last five year, so...

 

[canucksfan]

I don't mind the shift but having four outfielders should not be allowed.

 

[AllDay28]

A league where you hit the ball 3 out of 10 times and you’re generationally wealthy, but ya there needs to be a league wide adjustment by hitters to not hit into the shift

 

[dredeye]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the shift... I think what people don't like is that hitters, for the most part, are unwilling to adjust to it. And, since no one can force hitters to go the other way or bunt against the shift, the proposed solution is to get rid of the shift altogether and allow hitters to avoid evolving.

No I hate watching any ball hit onto the ground essentially being a guaranteed out if there’s no one on base. I think it’s hurting the game. But to say it’s as simple as hitting the other way is ridiculous.

 

[dredeye]

Not that I’m against the shift but if the league wanted to get rid of the shift, just have a position rule like the NFL.

Simply say you must have 2 infielders on each side of 2nd base before the pitch is thrown. Umpires can easily enforce it and if teams pushes the envelope, it’s only their pitcher who suffers.

Or if you don’t follow the rule then you get an “illegal formation” violation like in the NFL and the penalty could be a walk or a balk where the runners advance.

I think that’s a reasonable option. You could still essentially shift but it wouldn’t be as extreme

 

[aingefan]

David Phelps - 5 IP, 0 H, 0 BB, 10 K

Lots of really nice spring performances so far.

Agreed.
Trent Thornton with a nice debut, too.

 

[Discoverer]

No I hate watching any ball hit onto the ground essentially being a guaranteed out if there’s no one on base. I think it’s hurting the game. But to say it’s as simple as hitting the other way is ridiculous.

I didn't say it was simple. I shouldn't have said "unwilling", though. Sorry.

And I'm not referring so much to individual players adjusting, but to the league as a whole. Part of that is about players who struggle against the shift working their way out of the league and those who face it successfully coming in their place. It's a process, and it'll take time.

The leaguewide batting average on groundballs has declined by .005 points over the last decade. I think the overall impact of the shift is somewhat overstated because the individual plays stand out so much.

 

[dredeye]

I didn't say it was simple. I shouldn't have said "unwilling", though. Sorry.

And I'm not referring so much to individual players adjusting, but to the league as a whole. Part of that is about players who struggle against the shift working their way out of the league and those who face it successfully coming in their place. It's a process, and it'll take time.

The leaguewide batting average on groundballs has declined by .005 points over the last decade. I think the overall impact of the shift is somewhat overstated because the individual plays stand out so much.

That is a pretty inconsequential number for sure. Maybe that’s it. It’s so obvious when the ball is hit into the shift that it stands out so much more. It’s hard to hit the ball on the ground the opposite way which is what makes it so effective.

 

[Discoverer]

That is a pretty inconsequential number for sure. Maybe that’s it. It’s so obvious when the ball is hit into the shift that it stands out so much more. It’s hard to hit the ball on the ground the opposite way which is what makes it so effective.

To clarify, the .005 is total. I noticed after that you said with no one on... in that case it's .01. Still a small difference, but more significant, for sure.

 

[The Nemesis]

Anyways our favourite trade guy Jim Bowden back with another great Jays trade
Proposed trade No. 2: Toronto Blue Jays and Cincinnati Reds

Blue Jays acquire: RHP Luis Castillo, RHP Jared Solomon
Reds acquire: SS Jordan Groshans, RHP Alek Manoah

Thanks Jim!

Every crappy, phone-it-in article Jim Bowden writes for the Atheltic (or formerly for ESPN) is another excellent exhibit as to why Jim Bowden is not employed in some team's front office.

I enjoy that the comment section is basically nothing but fans of both teams saying the deal is awful.

 

[phillipmike]

Doesnt mean anything as it is just spring training but its better to be good than bad in the Spring.

 

[phillipmike]

Here are baseball's Top 10 farm systems

1. Tampa
2. Detroit
3. Seattle
4. Miami
5. Baltimore
6. San Diego
7. Jays
8. Pittsburgh
9. Arizona
10. KC

Call me homer but id keep my Jays pool over SD, Baltimore, and Miami. Tampa is clearly better and Seattle is too. Im torn on Detroit but they have a case. I like Pittsburgh too, i might have them above the Jays, they will definitaely be higher when they add one of Rocker, Leiter or Lawler.

Speaking of Rocker;

Rocker fans 14 in another dominant outing

 

[Gargyn]

Who the hell is Josh Palacios? Young man is ripping the ball this spring. Anyone know anything about this guy and what we have in him? Does he still have options?

 

[IceColdBear]

I see this all the time, and it's just not true. It's not that hitters are unwilling to adjust, it's just that it is really f***ing hard to hit the ball in general much less try and adjust your swing pattern and timing to push the ball in a particular direction.

I think hitters may be adjusting to the shift in the opposite direction, swinging for the fences more.

Trying to slap the ball the other way only has the upside of a single, and that's still not that likely of an outcome. Hitting for power might go through or over the shift for a single, or if you make good contact it could go for a double, or homerun

 

[The Nemesis]

Who the hell is Josh Palacios? Young man is ripping the ball this spring. Anyone know anything about this guy and what we have in him? Does he still have options?

He has his full slate of 3 options, he's just been working his way up the system and has no MLB games yet. I remember seeing him a few years ago in Vancouver.

He's usually looked at as a 4th OF type with good athleticism, good defensive ability (maybe maybe not suited to CF), a bit of pop, and mostly a question about whether or not his bat plays at the big league level from a contact standpoint.

MLB Pipeline has him at #29 in the Jays system, Fangraphs ranks him in their honorable mentions (so <39), both tag him as a 40 FV guy overall.

He seems to have fans in the coaching staff and dev guys though, so he probably gets every chance to fight it out with the likes of Jonathan Davis to take what's right now the 5th OF job until they figure out if they're gonna move Grichuk or see if Hernandez can claim a permanent RF spot or not.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Every team gets to have a pitcher, catcher, and 7 other fielders. They should be able to put the 7 other fielders wherever they damn please. Just because traditionally baseball was invented with 7 general locations for the other guys to play doesn't mean they should be locked into that.

If positional restrictions are not put in place think eventually we'll end up with a league where they'll basically have to do away with the position labels completely because guys move around so much. There isn't a traditional 3rd baseman anymore, nor a right fielder, etc, etc. Players will move around so much batter to batter including things like teams playing their best fielders wherever each hitter hits it most often. So if a RH batter pulls the ball on the ground a lot but hits it oppo in the air your 2 best infielders play SS and 3B, and your best outfielder plays RF against this hitter. If it switches for the next hitter than your best fielders switch to 2B and 1B, and LF. Maybe your best fielder is an infielder but a guy comes to the plate who hits it in the air so much you make him the CF for this hitter and play 4 outfielders. At that point, eventually the labels will be done away with. And I'm fine with it.