Confirmed Signing with Link: [NJD] Dougie Hamilton signs with the Devils (7 years, $9M AAV) [Part II]

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Dude I don't know where your getting your stats but they are completely wrong. Did you literally just make those numbers up? Your saying the most points was 31 with everyone else in low 20s? Uhh we had Zacha with 35 points, Hughes with 31, Sharangovich with 30, Bratt with 30, Wood had 25, Kuokkanen had 25 I can keep listing. So ?????????

Dude, I was giving their ages, Like Subban was 31 years old DUDE

 

[Hisch13r]

Dude, I was giving their ages, Like Subban was 31 years old DUDE

Nah you were obviously saying Zajac was over a PPG before he was traded

 

[Guttersniped]

So what you want to do is rush our approach to competing? You want to sell off Luke Hughes? You realize in doing that you immediately piss off Jack & when it's time for his contract I will guarantee you he will remember that & take his revenge on us by giving us a hard time. The last thing I would want to do is sacrifice the future for a half attempt at a playoff run. We are trying to be a professional organization that attracts big names. You don't accomplish that by pissing off the name value guys you have. Think of it this way. Would you rather work for a scumbag like Jeff Bezos who doesn't give a crap about you, or would you rather go to a job that treats you with class & dignity even if it means a little less money. At the end of the day if you treat your players like trash they will remember that & it destroys the ability to attract names.

Also Hamilton isn’t our ticking clock to the point that there’s a pointed gun to our head. Tampa traded for Sergachev in 2017 and he’s 23 now, and they were pretty damn “win now”, it doesn’t mean high end guys on ELCs don’t matter.

If you don’t believe in Luke that’s different but trading him (or any other top prospect) for an older, more expensive player because we have to hurry up and compete is not actually a smart move unless an extraordinary opportunity happened.

And yeah, while I was very against the “draft Luke to win Jack’s undying love” narrative it’s positively psychopathic to draft Luke, get him and everyone else excited about that and then immediately flip him for some other player. These are human beings and it’s not like hockey trades are full proof anyway so you could be weirdo asshole and then have the trade lay an egg on top of that.

 

[Guttersniped]

But thats exactly what you insinuated

you said 'stop gap guys' which dont move the needle so youre still bottom-10.

you also said being middle of the pack is 'purgatory'

so yes, you expect a team to go from bottom to top 10 in one offseason by signing big name free agents.

thats NHL20 type stuff, no NHL team goes from nobodies to somebodies strictly off young drafted talent

Also this isn’t a video game, this is a business and teams want to sell tickets despite a pandemic. To Dougie was signed to juice the team and build excitement to get butts in the seats.

The facts that he’s an elite impact player almost worth that big contract, not that old, and in a key position that we cannot fill internally anytime soon in the best of circumstances means the signing is an ok move but this isn’t about immediately contending. Everyone considers us a year or two away from that.

Luke’s still 18 years old and his injury on top of the shortened seasons means he’s got a lot of developing still to do which also means it’s a bit early to be playing armchair scout and deciding he’s not worth keeping. (Without even saying what amazing player we’re potentially getting in return.)

 

[My3Sons]

Also this isn’t a video game, this is a business and teams want to sell tickets despite a pandemic. To Dougie was signed to juice the team and build excitement to get butts in the seats.

The facts that he’s an elite impact player almost worth that big contract, not that old, and in a key position that we cannot fill internally anytime soon in the best of circumstances means the signing is an ok move but this isn’t about immediately contending. Everyone considers us a year or two away from that.

Luke’s still 18 years old and his injury on top of the shortened seasons means he’s got a lot of developing still to do which also means it’s a bit early to be playing armchair scout and deciding he’s not worth keeping. (Without even saying what amazing player we’re potentially getting in return.)

Still 18? As I type this he’s been 18 for about two days give or take a few hours.

 

[Guttersniped]

Still 18? As I type this he’s been 18 for about two days give or take a few hours.

Haha, true. They grow up so fast tho.

 

[Buggsy]

Dude I don't know where your getting your stats but they are completely wrong. Did you literally just make those numbers up? Your saying the most points was 31 with everyone else in low 20s? Uhh we had Zacha with 35 points, Hughes with 31, Sharangovich with 30, Bratt with 30, Wood had 25, Kuokkanen had 25 I can keep listing. So ?????????

He listed the ages.

 

[McDuffz88]

He listed the ages.

Yeah my bad I was a little drunk when I read it lol

 

[Price is Wright]

Devils haven't made the playoffs in three seasons and prior to that first round exit it was five seasons.

When a top free agent says they want to sign in New Jersey? You sign them.

That way your young players know there's a way out of the playoff misses and veteran players know good quality talent believes you are a destination.

 

[Guttersniped]

Devils haven't made the playoffs in three seasons and prior to that first round exit it was five seasons.

When a top free agent says they want to sign in New Jersey? You sign them.

That way your young players know there's a way out of the playoff misses and veteran players know good quality talent believes you are a destination.

You don’t understand, our road to perfection is lost. EVERYTHING IS RUINED.

 

[My3Sons]

You don’t understand, our road to perfection is lost. EVERYTHING IS RUINED.

don’t forget that Subban’s remaining year will destroy NJ’s cap for years to come.

 

[bossram]

You know that finishing 18th isn’t the goal. The team has clearly planted its flag between Hischier and Hughes. Setting fire to season after season and sending out expiring vets is hopefully over for now. Maybe they send out Subban if they are out of the playoff picture this season but that’s probably it. At some point the team has to take a stand or they will struggle to improve. How many years will it be until Luke Hughes arrives? Three? What about next year’s first pick? Starting to try isn’t a bad idea. The team has a bunch of two year guys in Graves Tatar and Bernier. The only long term guy is Hamilton. One contract shouldn’t cripple the team if they manage the bottom six players correctly. Assuming Jack and Nico improve over the next two years Hamilton should help that process.

I'm saying that I'm in favour of investing more draft/prospect capital to improve the team now. Which is why I argued (apparently very controversially) that if the right deal presented itself, Luke Hughes should be on the table.

The Devils leading point producers last year were 23, 19, 22, 22, 25, 22, 20, 26, 31 (Subban - last season with NJ), and 35 (Zajac traded). There is no realistic way to turn a team that reliant on younger players into a team that looks like a veteran contender in one off season.

I think it's fairly realistic that they could see a big improvement, particularly if they addressed another 1 or 2 holes on the roster. With the exception of Hughes (age 19), every other player there will be in their athletic prime this season, including the two marquee additions in Hamilton and Graves (Tatar is older but obviously he's not likely to suddenly get better with age).

I think we're all expecting a somewhat significant jump from Jack, and everyone else should be productive. I wouldn't say they could be a "true" contender, but maybe a Stanley Cup dark horse - certainly in the Metro division. I don't think, "battle around the bubble" is a great spot to be in organizationally. Chicago had a pretty young core in their 2009-10 Cup, so I don't think having younger players can preclude a team from being competitive at all. When Tampa was making the Conference Finals and SC Finals around 2014-15, their core was very young.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You don’t understand, our road to perfection is lost. EVERYTHING IS RUINED.

Everything is not lost but I do get your point. Do you think Hamilton turns the needle and moves the Devils up to middle of the pack and no mans land for the foreseeable future? I'm not too sure on that. Maybe he improves the position in the standings by a few places.

 

[My3Sons]

Everything is not lost but I do get your point. Do you think Hamilton turns the needle and moves the Devils up to middle of the pack and no mans land for the foreseeable future? I'm not too sure on that. Maybe he improves the position in the standings by a few places.

I think too many people are focused on this season only. NJ is hoping its young players improve enough over the next few seasons as teams like PIT and WAS start to age. My guess is that Hamilton can help them along that development curve and if the team can start to be a playoff contender the season after this one he will help them get to that point and help them get beyond merely sneaking into the playoffs over the course of the next several years. For this season, if he helps the team improve a few spots in the standings its a step in the right direction. They can't be terrible forever.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think too many people are focused on this season only. NJ is hoping its young players improve enough over the next few seasons as teams like PIT and WAS start to age. My guess is that Hamilton can help them along that development curve and if the team can start to be a playoff contender the season after this one he will help them get to that point and help them get beyond merely sneaking into the playoffs over the course of the next several years. For this season, if he helps the team improve a few spots in the standings its a step in the right direction. They can't be terrible forever.

Pressure to rise faster than you should rise usually results in middle of the pack teams going nowhere. Devils had opportunity to play more lottery and reinforce the young core around what they already had. I get it, loosing sucks but remember this... if the Devils turn into a middle of the pack team, management and fans look back in 5 years with regrets.

You are right, it's much deeper than just this year.

 

[My3Sons]

Pressure to rise faster than you should rise usually results in middle of the pack teams going nowhere. Devils had opportunity to play more lottery and reinforce the young core around what they already had. I get it, loosing sucks but remember this... if the Devils turn into a middle of the pack team, fans look back in 5 years with regrets.

They've been losing for way too long. They didn't hit homers in the draft so far even if they've done pretty well. Hamilton isn't going to destroy their cap or give them false expectations in my view. They've already done that with Hall and had only one good season. If the team improves it will be because Hischier, Hughes, Bratt. Zacha, Sharangovich, Kuokkanen, Wood, McLeod, Smith, and Blackwood get better as they mature. If they stink Hamilton isn't going to raise them to mediocrity so all they've wasted is money and they can still pick in the draft lottery. If they are good having Hamilton will help.

NJ seems to have a plan. Only time will tell if it is correct but at least they have a goal in mind for team building. That alone seems like a change from the prior five or six years. I think Hamilton fits the role and mold of defender they want on the team more so than they see him as some sort of transcendent player who will single handedly lead them to the playoffs.

 

[Habs Halifax]

They've been losing for way too long. They didn't hit homers in the draft so far even if they've done pretty well. Hamilton isn't going to destroy their cap or give them false expectations in my view. They've already done that with Hall and had only one good season. If the team improves it will be because Hischier, Hughes, Bratt. Zacha, Sharangovich, Kuokkanen, Wood, McLeod, Smith, and Blackwood get better as they mature. If they stink Hamilton isn't going to raise them to mediocrity so all they've wasted is money and they can still pick in the draft lottery. If they are good having Hamilton will help.

NJ seems to have a plan. Only time will tell if it is correct but at least they have a goal in mind for team building. That alone seems like a change from the prior five or six years. I think Hamilton fits the role and mold of defender they want on the team more so than they see him as some sort of transcendent player who will single handedly lead them to the playoffs.

Remember when the Devils traded for Subban and signed Simmonds... and just drafted Hughes I believe. Smells like the same kind of thing in terms of hype. I just think if the Devils move up and decrease their lottery odds, it's the worse time to do it when the real talent is up for grabs.

However, there is no real sure shot blue print on how to build a contender. We will see how the Devils do moving forward. I bet you Yzerman tries to stay a low as he can for as long as he can.

 

[My3Sons]

Remember when the Devils traded for Subban and signed Simmonds... and just drafted Hughes I believe. Smells like the same kind of thing in terms of hype. I just think if the Devils move up and decrease their lottery odds, it's the worse time to do it when the real talent is up for grabs.

However, there is no real sure shot blue print on how to build a contender. We will see how the Devils do moving forward. I bet you Yzerman tries to stay a low as he can for as long as he can.

NJ isn't really hyping the signing beyond a small amount of social media. General hockey media is going to buzz about a top UFA signing with an off market team but that's more of a thing in Canada I'm guessing. I don't think NJ expected greatness with Subban and Simmonds. I think that was mostly done to have a decent team to entice Hall to stay. Again, I don't see Hamilton individually making enough of a difference to change the team's fortunes if they are going to stink. At that point it's just money and sunk cost. It's not like they have to bail on good players to keep him.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

I think we're all expecting a somewhat significant jump from Jack, and everyone else should be productive. I wouldn't say they could be a "true" contender, but maybe a Stanley Cup dark horse - certainly in the Metro division. I don't think, "battle around the bubble" is a great spot to be in organizationally.

I agree with everything you wrote. I am positive about the upcoming season. IMO being around the bubble for one season is not a bad thing for this years Devils team. Obviously that is to be avoided at all costs long term IMO - I prefer being bad to being around the bubble for more than a year or two. The problem is the one hole that needs to be addressed at this point (3C) is not something that could be realistically addressed at a low cost at this time. For example, the Devils could not beat MTL's offer for Dvorak because the Devils should under no circumstance be trading a future 1st at this time.

I think the main difference between our points of view is that you value the 21-22 more that I do. I value the 22-23 and beyond seasons more.

 

[bossram]

I agree with everything you wrote. I am positive about the upcoming season. IMO being around the bubble for one season is not a bad thing for this years Devils team. Obviously that is to be avoided at all costs long term IMO - I prefer being bad to being around the bubble for more than a year or two. The problem is the one hole that needs to be addressed at this point (3C) is not something that could be realistically addressed at a low cost at this time. For example, the Devils could not beat MTL's offer for Dvorak because the Devils should under no circumstance be trading a future 1st at this time.

I think the main difference between our points of view is that you value the 21-22 more that I do. I value the 22-23 and beyond seasons more.

My expectations for 21-22 and the Devils are higher than most because I don't think the Metro is that strong. Outside of NYI (who are an ageing team anyway) and maybe Carolina, I don't really think there are any "Good" teams and there's no reason why the Devils shouldn't be able to make the playoffs if they make that their objective.

Father Time is catching up to Pittsburgh and Washington. Carolina will probably take a step back from their pace last season. NYR is promising but have decided to galaxy-brain their organization. And honestly, Philly could be good or could be a complete disaster, who the hell knows.

Every club has big question marks. With a young and improving roster, plus smart additions, I really think the Devils could do some damage and I'd like to see them lean into that even more. IMO for 3C, Fitz should really inquire about the price on Robert Thomas. I think he's going to be a very good player but it's clear the coach and management undervalue him.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

My expectations for 21-22 and the Devils are higher than most because I don't think the Metro is that strong. Outside of NYI (who are an ageing team anyway) and maybe Carolina, I don't really think there are any "Good" teams and there's no reason why the Devils shouldn't be able to make the playoffs if they make that their objective.

Father Time is catching up to Pittsburgh and Washington. Carolina will probably take a step back from their pace last season. NY is promising but have decided to galaxy-brain their organization. And honestly, Philly could be good or could be a complete disaster, who the hell knows.

Every club has big question marks. With a young and improving roster, plus smart additions, I really think the Devils could do some damage and I'd like to see them lean into that even more. IMO for 3C, Fitz should really inquire about the price on Robert Thomas. I think he's going to be a very good player but it's clear the coach and management undervalue him.

Other than the last paragraph I agree with everything you wrote. Those first two paragraphs look like posts of mine

 

[Jerzey Devil]

Regarding the 3c it doesn’t look like the Isles are bringing Zajac back. He’d be a fine option for 3c it just depends if he wants to stay close to his family, chase a cup with a contender, or retire.

 

[Hisch13r]

Remember when the Devils traded for Subban and signed Simmonds... and just drafted Hughes I believe. Smells like the same kind of thing in terms of hype. I just think if the Devils move up and decrease their lottery odds, it's the worse time to do it when the real talent is up for grabs.

However, there is no real sure shot blue print on how to build a contender. We will see how the Devils do moving forward. I bet you Yzerman tries to stay a low as he can for as long as he can.

Comparing the 2019 moves to 2021 moves is hilarious. They're simply not the same.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Comparing the 2019 moves to 2021 moves is hilarious. They're simply not the same.

Same in terms of thinking the team moves up yes.

 

[Blackjack]

Same in terms of thinking the team moves up yes.

So you could say the same thing about literally any move that the team makes to improve itself, no?