Player Discussion Nils Lundkvist

[Harbour Dog]

But when he started putting up great offensive numbers is when he started getting hyped up as one of the best D prospects in the league, he wasn't as highly regarded before he broke out like that. He was actually considered a reach at the time of the draft.

I think we need to stop focus on turning all these prospects into defense first players, same thing is going on with Lafreniere & Kakko. Our team isn't allowing many goals, we're pretty darn solid defensively and in net. What we're lacking is offense that Laf & Kakko were supposed to bring, and what Lundkvist was supposed to bring from the back end.

I've been saying from day one that those offensive numbers were most likely not going to translate, so I'm probably coming at it from a different angle than most. He made Swedish national teams because he was steady defensively, not because he could run a PP and make slick plays at the offensive blueline. I think everybody: us; the team; even Lundkvist himself; have gotten off track a bit on who the kid is going to be at this level.

I agree that Lafreniere and Kakko shouldn't be defensive first, but I also don't equate '200-foot game' to 'defense first'. Having a 200-foot game goes farther to winning a championship than being a one-dimensional offensive or defensive player. Give me the guy who hustles on the backcheck and in the NZ, but also attacks like a monster. That is what Kakko is morphing into, and I have full confidence that that is what Lafreniere will become.

 

[EdJovanovski]

I've been saying from day one that those offensive numbers were most likely not going to translate, so I'm probably coming at it from a different angle than most. He made Swedish national teams because he was steady defensively, not because he could run a PP and make slick plays at the offensive blueline. I think everybody: us; the team; even Lundkvist himself; have gotten off track a bit on who the kid is going to be at this level.

I agree that Lafreniere and Kakko shouldn't be defensive first, but I also don't equate '200-foot game' to 'defense first'. Having a 200-foot game goes farther to winning a championship than being a one-dimensional offensive or defensive player. Give me the guy who hustles on the backcheck and in the NZ, but also attacks like a monster. That is what Kakko is morphing into, and I have full confidence that that is what Lafreniere will become.

I agree on the first part. But about Laf & Kakko; people (not saying you in particular) often throw around the term "one dimensional" to describe offensively skilled players, but we seldom hear defensive players with no offensive skill being called "one dimensional". I think our team is looking one dimensional right now, our only dimension is defense. Our offence is a black hole.

 

[Harbour Dog]

I agree on the first part. But about Laf & Kakko; people (not saying you in particular) often throw around the term "one dimensional" to describe offensively skilled players, but we seldom hear defensive players with no offensive skill being called "one dimensional". I think our team is looking one dimensional right now, our only dimension is defense. Our offence is a black hole.

Yeah, 'one dimensional' is used as kind of a synonym for guys that are poor at defense, but I'd agree 100% that it should apply to both sides of the puck.

I actually think our offense has been so poor mostly because we're getting beat up in the two-way game. Calgary and Toronto beat us in our defensive zone firstly. If we had guys moving the puck quicker and backchecking with the same intensity as Calgary were attacking with, we would have created more chances for ourselves because of it.

Edit - only talking 5v5. No excuse for the PP; those guys have too much skill to be flubbing passes and entries routinely.

 

[CLW]

Yeah, 'one dimensional' is used as kind of a synonym for guys that are poor at defense, but I'd agree 100% that it should apply to both sides of the puck.

I actually think our offense has been so poor mostly because we're getting beat up in the two-way game. Calgary and Toronto beat us in our defensive zone firstly. If we had guys moving the puck quicker and backchecking with the same intensity as Calgary were attacking with, we would have created more chances for ourselves because of it.

Edit - only talking 5v5. No excuse for the PP; those guys have too much skill to be flubbing passes and entries routinely.

Calgary's (Sutter's) style is to attack the puck carrying D-men as hard as they can in the o-zone, and ideally push them all the way back behind the goal line and create turnovers. This game came at a time the Rangers are adjusting to their new system and transition schemes and with Nils learning the NA game. Calgary won some of Sutter's first games behind the bench against Montreal last spring in the same style. Montreal with their big and clumsy D struggled to play the puck up the ice quickly and lost handily, basically carbon copies of our last game. The Rangers' transition game needs to get started MUCH faster, once it does the team will be good.

 

[BBKers]

Transition has been very bad so far.but, it is definitely a work progress. Come May…and June!!!

 

[offdacrossbar]

for those who thought nils would make the immediate transition from sweden to the nhl, its reality check time. kids gonna get better but hes been, at times, brutal. hes not near ready but he was anointed and has to play now.

our transition game and ability to create from the blue line has been weak. fox is alone on an island. trouba skates in mud and miller- like nils, is a pup. the 3rd line is a nightly tire fire.

meanwhile, carolina is 6-0 and ADA is 1/4 for 5 and a plus 5 in 6 games. oh, and our PP looks like ass so far.

kravtsov is a talented albeit temperamental russian who probably should have made the team out of camp yet decided to run home again. weak. poor optics for a team needing to do a better job developing young talent.

ADA and krav are both very talented yet flawed players that this organization seems to be ok with playing elsewhere. the david quinn legacy continues.

georgiev is an inconsistent, and at best, average backup.

choices made by this organization continue to amaze.

lastly, unless and until our 2 best players play better- bread and mika, the other stuff is just fluff.

 

[LoveGoons]

Give him 25 games before you throw the baby out with the bathwater!

 

[mas0764]

Lol on what planet is Miller the one to send down?

He's grossly outplayed Nils in the regular season and has mostly been great.

Switch Nemeth to the right and Play Jones in his natural spot. It won't be worse than what we're currently throwing out there.

You have a bit of an unhealthy obsession here.

 

[egelband]

Both Miller and Nils looked fine this game.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

You have a bit of an unhealthy obsession here.

Lol ok mr Nils should be untouchable for pretty much everyone.

... But the though that Nils and Miller (who aren't even in competition with one another) are in the same boat or on equal footing is laughable. I saw it after last nights game too where Miller, had a pretty MONSTER performance and Nils struggled again (to his credit, Nemeth was actually worse in this one than he was 5v5 so that didn't help.)

 

[mas0764]

I don’t think Nils was so bad.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

In comparison to some of the previous games? Maybe not.

He still got smoked on the rush 3 times, struggled mightily in the corners and he and Nemeth got shelled out there in a game where the Rangers controlled the play for 50+ minutes.

Nemeth was the bigger culprit out there for this one 100%, but I wouldn't have categorized him as good or even "ok". Better than Calgary? Yes, because he actually completed passes out of his own end when he had no pressure, drove the middle of the ice to open up space for the Strome goal (this was good, worthy of receiving a point on this play because while he barely nudged the puck to Panarin, this really made the goal) but some of the other things continued to be issues.

 

[aufheben]

Isn’t this analysis a tad heavy for a player who’s spent an hour and a half on NHL ice?

 

[Inferno]

Isn’t this analysis a tad heavy for a player who’s spent an hour and a half on NHL ice?

It is not. Because he should be getting hefty mins in the minors. He is not ready for the nhl.

 

[aufheben]

This is what happens when you start comparing a kid in Sweden to Adam Fox.

 

[Fitzy]

This is what happens when you start comparing a kid in Sweden to Adam Fox.

Anyone watching the tape could tell you they are different kinds of players.

I don't see it as a huge deal that Nils has struggled a bit out of the gate. Very few defensemen since the lockout have made the jump immediately into the NHL. Staal, Fox, Miller, Del Zotto, Matt Gilroy--- all really fought it their first years at times except for Fox, and that's because he's stupid good.

Even McDonagh looked terrible before his AHL stint.

 

[Inferno]

This is what happens when you start comparing a kid in Sweden to Adam Fox.

I'm not comparing him to anyone nor have I

I'm just being objective by what I've seen.

For what's being asked of them, Schneider makes way more sense and seemed more ready for that role than Nils did during the preseason.

 

[JCProdigy]

I'm not comparing him to anyone nor have I

I'm just being objective by what I've seen.

For what's being asked of them, Schneider makes way more sense and seemed more ready for that role than Nils did during the preseason.

For anybody who has been watching, how has Schneider (and Jones) done in the early going down at Hartford? I think, at this point, that is more relevant than his preseason performance.

 

[Inferno]

For anybody who has been watching, how has Schneider (and Jones) done in the early going down at Hartford? I think, at this point, that is more relevant than his preseason performance.

Definitely a fair question and one I don't have an answer to.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

The Jump KAM has had between years 1 and 2 does give me hope for Nils. Still growing pains

 

[Harbour Dog]

The Jump KAM has had between years 1 and 2 does give me hope for Nils. Still growing pains

It's definitely premature to say that Nils can't adjust to this level, but comparing him to the K'Andre Miller Development Standard is only going to bring disappointment.

Miller has just completely skipped over like 2.5 years of expected development, and while most prospects take development jumps, he's leaping tall buildings in a single bound.

And if I remember right, Nils nearly doubled him in votes in the prospect poll this year. It's almost like we have massive overreactions when prospects don't look like superstars in the NHL immediately. But I'm sure we don't do that. Maybe. I'm sure we maybe don't do that.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

It's definitely premature to say that Nils can't adjust to this level, but comparing him to the K'Andre Miller Development Standard is only going to bring disappointment.

Miller has just completely skipped over like 2.5 years of expected development, and while most prospects take development jumps, he's leaping tall buildings in a single bound.

And if I remember right, Nils nearly doubled him in votes in the prospect poll this year. It's almost like we have massive overreactions when prospects don't look like superstars in the NHL immediately. But I'm sure we don't do that. Maybe. I'm sure we maybe don't do that.

You definitely make great points about the overreactions and how it usually does take dmen much longer to adapt to NHL out. It does just feel very similar how everyone was ready to throw Miller out during the end of last year and just how much better Jones is than him.

 

[Harbour Dog]

You definitely make great points about the overreactions and how it usually does take dmen much longer to adapt to NHL out. It does just feel very similar how everyone was ready to throw Miller out during the end of last year and just how much better Jones is than him.

Yup, I can see that too.

I think I'm a little harder on Nils than I was on Miller, because it is very easy to see K'Andre's ridiculous upside, and he's demolished expectations to this point. He may never get there, but if he does he will be utterly dominant.

With Nils, I was expecting him to be poised and smart out of the gate, but he's had some serious nerves. And without that poise, the upside isn't there to see. His game is predicated on quiet, simple, steady play; and without that, I don't know what he can bring to this level.

I'd really like to get him big minutes in the AHL ASAP. So many young guys are going to be pushing for spots soon that we need to figure out what we have, quickly. In both him and Jones.

 

[bleedblue94]

I've been saying from day one that those offensive numbers were most likely not going to translate, so I'm probably coming at it from a different angle than most. He made Swedish national teams because he was steady defensively, not because he could run a PP and make slick plays at the offensive blueline. I think everybody: us; the team; even Lundkvist himself; have gotten off track a bit on who the kid is going to be at this level.

I agree that Lafreniere and Kakko shouldn't be defensive first, but I also don't equate '200-foot game' to 'defense first'. Having a 200-foot game goes farther to winning a championship than being a one-dimensional offensive or defensive player. Give me the guy who hustles on the backcheck and in the NZ, but also attacks like a monster. That is what Kakko is morphing into, and I have full confidence that that is what Lafreniere will become.

I

It's definitely premature to say that Nils can't adjust to this level, but comparing him to the K'Andre Miller Development Standard is only going to bring disappointment.

Miller has just completely skipped over like 2.5 years of expected development, and while most prospects take development jumps, he's leaping tall buildings in a single bound.

And if I remember right, Nils nearly doubled him in votes in the prospect poll this year. It's almost like we have massive overreactions when prospects don't look like superstars in the NHL immediately. But I'm sure we don't do that. Maybe. I'm sure we maybe don't do that.

This all comes from people stat watching and thinking this kid was a can't miss blue chipper who would walk right into the NHL as a quality contributor. My god can we go back to the trade proposals involving him over the past 6 months coupled w the "I don't want to trade him till he's in the NHL bc then other teams can see how good he is so we get fair value." Maybe it would've been better for us to not let other teams see him in the NHL before trading him.

Kid needs development time in the AHL and at his size he is only valuable at the NHL level if he is a very good point producer. He's going to be trade fodder for this team so long as fix is here and based on the makeup of the org I have no question who I would rather have between Nils and Schneider for the future...

 

[JohnC]

I've been saying from day one that those offensive numbers were most likely not going to translate, so I'm probably coming at it from a different angle than most. He made Swedish national teams because he was steady defensively, not because he could run a PP and make slick plays at the offensive blueline. I think everybody: us; the team; even Lundkvist himself; have gotten off track a bit on who the kid is going to be at this level.

I agree that Lafreniere and Kakko shouldn't be defensive first, but I also don't equate '200-foot game' to 'defense first'. Having a 200-foot game goes farther to winning a championship than being a one-dimensional offensive or defensive player. Give me the guy who hustles on the backcheck and in the NZ, but also attacks like a monster. That is what Kakko is morphing into, and I have full confidence that that is what Lafreniere will become.

I’ve said it before, but the expectation that Nils would be some offensive dynamo comes entirely from twitter clips of PP slap shots.